AuthorTopic: Got some questions?  (Read 20240 times)

Offline ptoing

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Re: Got some questions?

Reply #20 on: April 14, 2006, 07:59:36 pm
Alphablending whut? Afaik the Neogeo has no alphablending capabilities, not 100% sure tho. I don't get what you mean with those palettes, the fireball and the effect on the guy don't look that complicated at all. Neither does the small ball, which seems to have TONS of colours.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Got some questions?

Reply #21 on: April 14, 2006, 08:05:24 pm
alpha blending IN the drawing process itself, not running when the engine is executed.

you know, like using multipy/screen in photoshop, only adapted to work with palleted images.

Offline ptoing

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Re: Got some questions?

Reply #22 on: April 15, 2006, 09:04:58 am
Oh i see, the only thing i think that looks like something like multiplyor whatever was used is the small blue one. The others have like 8 colours or something, that's not hard to lay down yourself at all.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Helm

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Re: Got some questions?

Reply #23 on: April 15, 2006, 04:13:16 pm
A lot of these effects would be quite simpler to make in highscale proggies, be them 3d or photoshop or aftereffects or combinations of these and then downgrade and posterize and rework minutely on the pixel-level.

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Got some questions?

Reply #24 on: April 15, 2006, 09:14:20 pm
I really dont think these programs would do what SNK did back in the day.

if we're talking ROTD, or Samsho Tenka, or Neo Geo Battle Colliseum then I completly agree.

but the old SNK effects were all about well rendered sillouethes and not about particle effects at all. I enjoy the way this style synthetizes concepts like flames and water with just a few strokes and pallete entries, to me it expresses much more knowledge of these effects than any high end 3d rendering routine. That's really what it is about for me, expressing information with the fewest strokes and pallete entries.

I'm not saying it'd be hard to make this whitout alpha blending, I'm saying it'd make no sense,  there are frames where it's use is so downright obvious doing it whitout alpha blending would be turning off alpha blending only to imitate it by hand. pointless. I know some people here would do things like that but I belive SNK as a company has more practical goals.

you all seem to forget that, in companies you dont get to work on every little detail until your heart is content,as soon as you get the effect your director wants expressed you're done.

I'm mostly interested in this because of the nearsighted vision helm is proposing with CA aesthetic, I dont think it's really that important to lay out every pallete entry on the picture by itself, it is only important to be conscient of how every stroke made represents an object's volume.

I've been thinking of this...aproximately since I joined pixelation. so it goes back quite a while. you guys remember when we all found out about Promotion? what was the first thing I did?
I brushed this in very quickly.heh. I hope helm remembers

the reason I havent used Promotion's tools is because they dont really work that tightly with the pallete, the way I belive it should be (and what I think SNK does) is that every stroke causes color cycling in the pallete in one direction or the other. it's really a very easy concept to implement, and it'd work perfectly to generate mutliply/screen oriented tools fitted for pixel art.

not only that, but tattos, and other recoloring based details would also be a breeze.

I've always thought a companies like capcom and SNK were not doing things like selout by laying out each shade by hand, I think nobody remembers now but when BluMunkee and St0ven made their theory thread about selout, what I contributed to the topic was that the outline basically followed the same lightness shifts as lighting on the sprite did. another instance in which I implied my thinking on this.

or any time any one in here seriously proposed creating a pixelart program, I suggested this feature, I think nobody ever really understood what I mean, but I did always mention it.

I think if this were implemented correctly it would become relevant not only to pixelart, but to CGing in general, it'd provide much greater control than Photoshop ever did whitout taking out any drawing power.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2006, 09:27:40 pm by Camus »

Offline Miguel

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Re: Got some questions?

Reply #25 on: April 16, 2006, 03:08:02 pm
I belive, from what i can see, that they really dont used alpha blending that much, i mean, most of these stuff looks like done pixel per pixel, you know? But yeah.. if anything I'd love to see the program that snk used for pixel work anyways.. :)

Me alegra que agrade este tema, camus. La primera pregunta cuando lo conoci, fue precisamente del Alpha Blending, yo tambien discuti en aquel commercial critique donde nos preguntabamos eso. :D
« Last Edit: April 16, 2006, 03:13:40 pm by Miguel »

Offline Helm

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Re: Got some questions?

Reply #26 on: April 16, 2006, 04:55:25 pm
Camus, darken/lighten paint mode, as well as Shade mode (if it works) already do what you're talking about in pro motion, so I guess... rejoice? You click, it darkens or lightens ( moves up or down the ramp) from 1 step to as many as you need depending on the harshness set in the ctrl-t controls.

I want to be clear my CA talk is my personal opinion about the merits of the artform and I'm not trying to shove it down anyone's throat. If people have to make 5 different clean ramp fighter sprites then nobody's stopping them. I enjoy the preciseness and the CONTROL involved in making pixel art and therefore I like minute palette adjustments until everything is in it's right place. Each to their own.

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Got some questions?

Reply #27 on: April 16, 2006, 09:51:34 pm
I enjoy the preciseness and the CONTROL involved in making pixel art and therefore I like minute palette adjustments until everything is in it's right place. Each to their own.

you're still not getting it are you helm? I knew about the alpha blending ages ago. that's why I posted the pic I made back when I found out about promotion
I brushed this in very quickly.heh. I hope helm remembers
that was made with alpha blending as soon as I found out about promotion

CONTROL is exactly what I enjoy too. dont you get it? that's what promotion doesnt have. those "steps" are really just about by how many points the lightness value is being tweaked, they are not related to actual color ramps or palletes at all.

it might be ok to spend hour upon hour to get the detail you want if you're doing still pictures for your own purpose. but as soon as you get involved with animation it becomes ludicrous, every detail must be done as quickly as posible to be even a considerable as part of a design.

that is why I need an alpha blending mode that gives me complete CONTROL over the palelte, so I can draw everything with complete control but far more quickly. that's what this this is about.

are my post really SO criptic there's no posible way anyone can understand them?
« Last Edit: April 16, 2006, 09:54:58 pm by Camus »

Offline The Cold Mage

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Re: Got some questions?

Reply #28 on: April 16, 2006, 10:48:18 pm
dude, camus, wtf

Offline Miguel

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Re: Got some questions?

Reply #29 on: April 17, 2006, 01:31:29 am