AuthorTopic: How about an employee review thread?  (Read 3181 times)

Offline trentg

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How about an employee review thread?

on: October 22, 2009, 11:23:17 pm
Well I was nicely surprised that my message warning someone about a con artist that frequents these boards was deleted... Warning people about this guy was the only thing seeming to motivate him to actually do any artwork for me for which I already paid him. With my posts being deleted he has no reason to actually fulfill his end of the deal, and he'll just keep doing it to other people...

So how about an employEE review sticky thread?

Offline Gil

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Re: How about an employee review thread?

Reply #1 on: October 23, 2009, 10:34:42 am
I don't know. Employee review threads are kind of iffy. One bad employer - employee could ruin someone's work opportunities. What I could get behind is that employers can give employees strikes. Three strikes means a ban from the employment forum or something.

Offline monteboyd

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Re: How about an employee review thread?

Reply #2 on: October 23, 2009, 12:35:46 pm
Potential emplyees really should be able to provide recent references on request if you're hiring them for paid work. This essentially does the same job as an employee review thread but is not done in the public domain.

It doesn't work the other way around (you can't ask an employer for references) and hence the need for an employer review thread.

Offline Zoggles

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Re: How about an employee review thread?

Reply #3 on: October 23, 2009, 04:15:20 pm
There is merit to the idea, though perhaps not to the solutions.

Whilst the mechanics might be the similar : sending in a potential review for moderation and possible inclusion in the employers thread / sending in a review potentially giving or removing a strike which can result in being restricted from this forum section. What would prevent reading this forum from a new account and then PM'ing or emailing the potential employer from your main account without then needing to enter this forum?

Any work relationship formed over the internet is intrinsically based upon trust. But whilst we have an employer reviews thread, there is less available for the other side, and even as a possible employee (on whose side this setup is slightly in favour) I do see it as slightly unfair and lacking.

Perhaps there should be some kind of 'reviews' thread, and artists could be encouraged to have their employer (paid or unpaid) send in a comment or complete a simple questionaire after a completed job. I would far rather see a thread that praised the good rather than one that only had a few negative comments on the bad. Not everyone that might apply for a job offer has a portfolio thread that could be commented on, but anyone who is interested in taking up work from this section of the site could have their name added to the list in such a thread. Possibly even with everyone starting out with a 3-star rating that improves with good feedback, and might drop with too much negative feedback.  Whilst stars and occasional comments might not give a complete picture, it would at least give a vague indication to a new-coming potential employer who doesn't have much else other than postcount (and submitted samples) to go by - and may not be familiar enough themselves with pixel art to distinguish genuine quality.

References are one possible solution, but not always fully reliable. Also, sometimes not available from older work/clients, they can inconvenience people, and are not always available due to confidentiality / possible clashes of interest or many other reasons. Whereas a review from a previous advertiser here after completion of a job means there is little need to ever trouble the client repeatedly for references, and it bypasses the need for an old client and potential new one to have to deal with each other. So a sort of 'references'/employee rating thread could be a useful addition for employers and employees alike.

For the good artists with good history, this only helps to show their reliability and credibility.

For those with bad reviews (perhaps only shown as fewer stars) they will have to work harder and possibly offer reduce rates to try and rebuild those fences they broke along their path.

-Z-
« Last Edit: October 23, 2009, 04:23:34 pm by Zoggles »

Sorry if I don't seem to ever comment on your posts, but anything hosted on imageshack or most image hosting web sites is blocked from China. If I can't see it I can't therefore comment on it :(

Offline Yuki

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Re: How about an employee review thread?

Reply #4 on: October 28, 2009, 09:15:05 pm
I've been ripped off by an artist in the past (it wasn't a pixel artist, but the same rule applies), so I can sympathise with Trentg here. I don't know what your original post said, but I think "con artist" is a strong term, and if you used that, I can understand why they deleted it. Even online, you have to be careful of making those kind of accusations.

Having said that, I don't find the counter arguments to his suggestion all that convincing. Sure, a bad employer could potentially make being employed again difficult - but then the reverse is also true. Would you work for an employer with a bad review? You wouldn't, would you? So why would an employer want to hire a bad empoyee? You can't gauge from someone's artwork whether or not they're going to go AWOL once you've handed over your half of the money.

No names will be mentioned, both for legal reasons and because I don't want to start a potential flame war, but the person I employed, for instance, had quite an impressive resume (a reason I employed him). Nothing for weeks. I got plenty of excuses as to why I wasn't getting anything, but the first red flag was when I offered to beta test a game for a colleague - and found this guy's name in the credits. This was about 6 months after I'd paid him to do work for me. The second was when he claimed he was short of time (but seemed to have pleny of time to update his blog). Then he wouldn't respond to my emails - not even to demands that he returned my money. I don't know what happened there. I certainly hadn't done anything to offend him up until that point.

I gave up after 18 months and hired someone else instead (who completed the work two weeks later without excuse.)

So yes, Zoggle's idea for some sort of moderated rating system sounds like a good one.

Quote
you can't ask an employer for references

What...?

Offline trentg

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Re: How about an employee review thread?

Reply #5 on: October 29, 2009, 02:36:04 pm
I'm all for Zoggles suggestion too. Maybe this way the person in question in my case will stop getting work, and decide to actually do the work he was paid for so he can get his name removed from the black list.

Offline AdamAtomic

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Re: How about an employee review thread?

Reply #6 on: November 04, 2009, 10:19:39 pm
We (the mods) have actually talked about this before.  We decided that ultimately that was too messed up a thing to do.  I know that can seem arbitrary (But you do employer reviews!!) but in our experience, the number of freelancers ripping off employers is dwarfed by the number of employers looking for slave wage artists.  The best thing you can do as a potential employer is to do a little research.  Speaking from the perspective of someone who actually does hire people fairly regularly, you should really be trying to hire the people with the best attitude and best reputation, not necessarily the best portfolio.  That is a lot harder to ascertain, but artists who regularly scam their clients tend to have a hard time staying all the way under the radar.  Use google and your own professional networks to minimize your risk, because a yes/no curated list of artists is really not something we can ethically provide.