AuthorTopic: Choosing colors and pallettes  (Read 96913 times)

Offline AlexHW

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Re: Choosing colors and pallettes

Reply #60 on: November 12, 2006, 09:12:37 pm
well, basically.. when you keep the brightness value and saturation value on the HSB the same while you change only the hue value, you end up changeing the chromatic value. This can be tested by making everything greyscale mode which discards the color information. If you use lab and keep the luminance unchanged while changing the hue, you get a smooth even shade of grey. but when you use hsb and keep the brightness the same while changing the hue, you get an uneven multiple shades of grey.

the top is hsb adusting hue while keeping brightness the same.
the middle is lab adjusting hue while keeping lightness the same.
the bottom is hsb adjusting hue while keeping both lightness and saturation the same.
on the right is everything changed to greyscale mode.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2006, 09:36:09 pm by Alex Hanson-White »

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Choosing colors and pallettes

Reply #61 on: November 13, 2006, 02:34:39 am
masterful display KON, thanks a bunch :y:...now to make peace with A and B c.c

Man, getting into this LAB colorspace thing is only confirming a lot of things I thought about the oddity and inconsistance of hues when I was getting into pixelart, thank you again

now if this shouldnt get featured, I dont know what should *wink wink, nudge nudge*
« Last Edit: November 13, 2006, 03:35:04 am by Conceit »

Offline ptoing

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Re: Choosing colors and pallettes

Reply #62 on: November 13, 2006, 05:01:17 pm
Uh and what is the help exactly? The relative luminance and brightness of those colours still is not the same to the human eye, I sometimes use RGB and sometime HSV depending on what I do, or CMYK. Never been a friend of Lab.

Quote
The Lab color model has been created to serve as a device independent, absolute model to be used as a reference. Therefore it is crucial to realize that the visual representations of the full gamut of colors in this model are never accurate. They are there just to help in understanding the concept, but they are inherently inaccurate.

Poop!
« Last Edit: November 13, 2006, 05:06:23 pm by ptoing »
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Ai

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Re: Choosing colors and pallettes

Reply #63 on: November 13, 2006, 10:46:09 pm
Quote
Therefore it is crucial to realize that the visual representations of the full gamut of colors in this model are never accurate. They are there just to help in understanding the concept, but they are inherently inaccurate.
I understood this to mean: the illustrative pictures are not accurate  - because all display hardware has quirks that prevent the gamut from being fully displayed (for example, my monitor doesn't display black as a real black, just a dark-enough grey.)

With the appropriate monitor color profile and image color profile configured, you can get an accurate display. without them, you can get a somewhat-accurate display (the colors relative to each other -- eg the colors in Kon's LAB example are a lot closer in apparent brightness than the HSB examples.)
If you insist on being pessimistic about your own abilities, consider also being pessimistic about the accuracy of that pessimistic judgement.

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Choosing colors and pallettes

Reply #64 on: November 14, 2006, 01:49:39 am
ok! came back, I dont know how kon did that little B&W test thing, but it is not really true, if you keep the lightness the same in LAB, you will NOT get a flat gray shade in terms of lightness when looking at the pallete


this image are LAB colorspace "slides", turned grayscale,goes from RGB black trough RGB blue, RGB red, RGB green, RGB green(dont ask me why but it can be created in 2 diferent ways in LAB), to RGB white.

According to what KON said, all of these images should be one flat gray shade but they're not....

I still find the way LAB deals with colors very very interesting, but I think KON's reasoning for it's practicality doesnt stand, and I still find it a bit mind boogling to work this with sliders
« Last Edit: November 14, 2006, 01:54:04 am by Conceit »

Offline Helm

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Re: Choosing colors and pallettes

Reply #65 on: November 14, 2006, 02:09:21 am
More trouble than it's worth, I suspect.

Offline Ai

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Re: Choosing colors and pallettes

Reply #66 on: November 14, 2006, 02:22:32 am
ok! came back, I dont know how kon did that little B&W test thing, but it is not really true, if you keep the lightness the same in LAB, you will NOT get a flat gray shade in terms of lightness when looking at the pallete


this image are LAB colorspace "slides", turned grayscale,goes from RGB black trough RGB blue, RGB red, RGB green, RGB green(dont ask me why but it can be created in 2 diferent ways in LAB), to RGB white.

According to what KON said, all of these images should be one flat gray shade but they're not....
No, of course not. He got a flat grey shade according to photoshop's particular estimation of intensity on his system/monitor.
I certainly wouldn't have made such an extravagant claim. All that I'd assert about it is: it's far closer to constant perceived brightness than HSV is.
If you insist on being pessimistic about your own abilities, consider also being pessimistic about the accuracy of that pessimistic judgement.

Offline AlexHW

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Re: Choosing colors and pallettes

Reply #67 on: November 14, 2006, 03:06:14 am
hm yeah, it's not perfect, but if you do the same with hsb, you'd have much harsher bands of brightness. Lab looks alot smoother anyways. whatever works for you is what it gets down to.

Offline ptoing

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Re: Choosing colors and pallettes

Reply #68 on: November 15, 2006, 05:39:17 pm
How does Lab look smoother? You can get any colour onto the monitor with HSV or RGB you can get with Lab, it's not like Lab magically enables the screen to display different colours.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Akira

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Re: Choosing colors and pallettes

Reply #69 on: November 17, 2006, 05:16:08 am
HSV = 3,600,000 values
(photoshop) Lab = 6,553,600 values
RGB = 16,777,216 values
CYMK = 100,000,000 values
Hex = 2,176,782,336 values
32bit colour = 4,294,967,296 values (?)
its the truth. however CYMK on photoshop is limited to the number of colours possible with the RGB values.
if we wanted all the colours possible on a 32bit screen we'd have to have RGB values from 0 to 1624 i think.

anyway the point of all this is that Hex = 'smoothest' in terms of number of possible values. however its hard to colour with just hex values to go on. so do whatever you find easiest i say. and HSV looks smooth enough. the human eye can't really tell the difference better 254,254,254 and 255,255,255 can it?

erg just realised lots of these numbers aren't correct. some you won't get any values if one of the numbers is 0 so i think only RGB and Hex are accurate. all others show less colours then stated.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2006, 05:27:18 am by Akira »
thanks Dogmeat!