AuthorTopic: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)  (Read 67417 times)

Offline baccaman21

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #90 on: March 16, 2006, 02:42:09 pm
FINAL thing
just a few color tweaks and 2 new tiles. That's it
pic>>

tiles>>


oh and 13 colors


Hi niss...

The amount of colors your using really shows, (in a negative way) - I think that one of the technicle points of this excercise is to demonstrate the understanding of using mulitiple pallettes across a character mapped image. Background development on GBA isn't the same as producing a sprite that may (or may not depending) be in 16 colors.

Each Character square can consist of 16 colors taken from a bank of 16 pallettes making a total of 256 color indexes. Certain restrictions are applied prior to development (depending on what else you may want to display on the screen using the screen pallette) so it's generally a good a idea to keep your color use as economic as possible. But I think 13 colors is perhaps a little too economic.

If you have a look at neverest's post you will see how he/she has arranged 4 'banks' of 16 colours.

A good Background artist needs to understand this. Color sharing across banks is also important if you want to blend from one pallette range to another. This is also demonstrated in neverest's image, although he/she has taken full advantage of this sharing which is evident in the straight edges - (having said that it's nice work)

he says..."Each tile can have a maximum of 15 colors in it (this is one 'pallette row'). The scene can have a maximum of 10 different pallette rows across all tiles"

This means you can have 10 banks of 16 (or 15 as adam more correctly puts it) colors. 150 colors in total.

It's a shame as you've made such a good effort but I think you perhaps misunderstood Adam's description?



I've just had a look at a few of these images and it seems that the pallettes aren't arranged well in a number of them?



I hope it's not just me but the majority of these backgrounds don't conform to a GBA pallette structure. Now, call me mean but in my opinion, regardless of how good they look should any of these go through for consideration?! I am mean aren't I? but I've read the rules and the reason why I didn't enter is because I know how tediously complicated background development can be with regards to making the pallettes work correctly across the character squares and tiles (someone in the know back me up on this one - Ptoing? Adam!?) - if this comp was purely on asthetics then most of these are strong contenders, but as is so often the case people overlook the underlying technicle elements because you can't SEE them... or because they don't understand... but take it from me it's important to understand... particularly if you want to win this contest.... or more importantly making sure that the art in question would work on a GBA!? which in most cases here present... they wouldn't...

yes I am mean aren;t I!? :)



« Last Edit: March 16, 2006, 05:39:04 pm by baccaman21 »
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Offline baccaman21

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #91 on: March 16, 2006, 03:19:36 pm


I like this one the most... just curious to know what the pallettes look like...

Damn my version of Promotion won't load PNG's anymore!! GRRRR!?!
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Offline Niss

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #92 on: March 16, 2006, 03:59:06 pm
Nope I think I got Adam right - just happen to be such a color count(yeah I understood the palletebank thing - not so complicated).
Just have to step back from it for a day - can't judge mine properly without some distance(too late for the deadline maybe but I like to tweak and improve my pics over time...)

Offline hondo

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #93 on: March 16, 2006, 09:10:44 pm
I've got mine done.  I tried to capture the feel of looking down the street like in the example.  I'm pretty happy with it ^_^  I grouped all my 40 tiles on the left and made sure each tile had only 15 colours.  Then, just because I'm anal, I grouped the tiles that used a specific pallet together so it'd be easier to see what I've done.  Five pallets in total.  I must say the I cranked though my 40 tiles super fast and had to go back and optamize a lot before the final result.

I think I got all this right.



If I had to pick wich ones like the best I'd say that Schu and Vedsten are tops.

Good work everyone. ^_^

Offline baccaman21

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #94 on: March 16, 2006, 11:51:49 pm
excellent work hondo.

You demonstrate the notion of the task well. Particularly with regards to what I've been saying about pallettes (see my previous post on pallette ordering...) Do you think you could process your work again bearing in mind the color grouping you've demonstrateed on the right of your submitted image?

In other words, actually set up the five pallettes you have highlighted and remap each tile into the relevant pallette and then finally rebuild the image?

This would be the final step you need in order to make the image 'GBA legal' - as it stands right now, the GIF image I'm looking at the pallettes amount to 3 rows - amounting to 41 colors, with all color 0's of those banks being used...

Aside from the underying techinical crit... it's looking very nice and cleanly pixeled.

good work fella...

(go on... try palletting it properly... It's not that hard and you're 90% of the way there already!)

Good Luck...

Pete :)

PS... If you don't palletize it I may give it a whirl in the morning...
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Offline neverest

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #95 on: March 17, 2006, 01:23:41 am
I dont understand this: "In other words, actually set up the five pallettes you have highlighted and remap each tile into the relevant pallette and then finally rebuild the image?"
at all. What is it exactly we need to change?

Offline Conzeit

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #96 on: March 17, 2006, 01:25:37 am
man, the content is too good, I'm gonna give it a whirl but I'm not sure I'll submit because I'm not sure I'd even make it to 3rd

great stuff in here, I'm impressed pixelopolis =)

Neverest: well, let's being by the beggining, do you know how to edit a gif's pallete?
« Last Edit: March 17, 2006, 01:29:54 am by Camus »

Offline Schu

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #97 on: March 17, 2006, 01:29:16 am
Say... I don't mean to sound rude or anything, and I'm sure we all appreciate you lending your knowledge and help but I'm starting to feel like this technical stuff about pallettes and GBA legality is really starting to kill any fun factor of this contest and might be scaring away others who haven't submitted their entries yet...
-----
Schu

Offline Conzeit

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #98 on: March 17, 2006, 01:39:45 am
well, baccaman IS a little out of place, much like I was in the popeye challenge in that he IS making valid truthful points, but it is not his place to be telling people how they're supposed to make their entries for the contest since however truthful his points may be they might just not be Adam's intention.

but In all honesty I think baccaman IS doing it purely to help people have a better chance at winning. in my oppinion if you want a real chance at the prize you DO need to be pallete-row aware.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2006, 01:54:42 am by Camus »

Offline vedsten

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Re: WayForward Contest #3: Background artist (tiling)

Reply #99 on: March 17, 2006, 01:45:49 am
-----------------------------------------------------------------

ENTRY A   /   ENTRY B    /   ENTRY C

-----------------------------------------------------------------

                   

                                     

~31 colors; 40 tiles, 7 paletterows / ~27 colors; 40 tiles, 5 paletterows / ~14 colors; 40 tiles, 1 paletterow

______________________________________


Quote from: Baccaman
"I like this one the most... just curious to know what the pallettes look like... "

- thx, palette rows are now included

Quote from: Schu
"Vedsten - Your first one was so nice, it was truly my favourite. There was just some weird thing going on with the brick of that back building though, I couldn't tell if it was a slanty, attached piece or if it was going behind the front building. But I have to say, I liked that one so much more than your new one (Though also cool, but too dark for my personal taste...it doesn't seem finished so I'm reserved in commenting more on it)."

- the back building's supposed to "pop" out, the odd lines are there to preserve tiles, it's a re-use, and though ill have to admit it looks a tad odd when you look at it for too long and zoom in, t shouldn't be too noticeable (or that, atleast, was the plan ^^), i agree, the second one's too dark, i actually tried making a pisece w. alot of contrast, cuz im pretty bad at it, and thus ~ i failed misrablely ^^, btw, quite the nifty entry you've submitted

Quote from: Faktablad
"@vedsten: I'd say your first submission is the most aesthetically pleasing for me; It works very well as a background.  The colors preserve the detail while keeping it second in importance to the sprites that will go in there.  Not too much detail, just right.  The second one doesn't work as well for me; The outlines and dark, bold colors pop it out a bit too much.  It still shows some amazing technical detail, though.  Great entries.  I love your style."

-Glad you like the first one, agree on your comments on the second ^^


Thx for the comments, and thx for the contest, excellent training!
« Last Edit: March 17, 2006, 04:44:49 am by vedsten »