[WIP] Town (isometric)

[The Mozack]

This one has been going on for more than a year. I've only been able to do this on and off, so you can see why I only have two blocks. The plan is to complete multiple blocks and piece them together into a larger scene, so I've barely scratched the surface.




C&C on these images, primarily on colours and detailing, are needed. Clearly there is also banding in places.

Associated thread: http://www.pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6813

[hsn2555]

i know you're going for a stylish look, but what i see is
the walls are too light *comparing to the red roofs*
maybe try to lighten the roofs,
or give the walls brownish tune

generally, those buildings are awesome.

[Jad]

You're actually doing this in pixels! What an undertaking.

The second house looks a bit weird since the two sides don't seem symmetrical - but that's all in order?

Somehow it still looks somewhat skewed, but fixing it seems hellish so I dunno! : D

I like your way of giving the houses patina and texture with low-contrast colours, it really does look nice.

Right now I feel the houses might be lacking in shading? I like the low contrast in the texture upon the buildings, but maybe some more contrast between light and shadow?

Also I do agree about the contrast issue between houses and roofs - on the completely red roofs I get the feeling that they're not actually illuminated by the sun. Contrary to colour-saving tradition I'd say add a brighter colour : D for the parts of roof that are turned towards the sun.

Otherwise tremendous! Good luck on this! (:

[The Mozack]

The second house looks a bit weird since the two sides don't seem symmetrical - but that's all in order?

Somehow it still looks somewhat skewed, but fixing it seems hellish so I dunno! : D

These semi-detach buildings are built in front of a curved roadside, thus appearing to have a wedged base. Given it was first constructed using the line tool and measured, it's probably symmetrical, although it's hard to say if it's properly aligned to an isometric projection. It's the same deal with the market (to the right of these buildings).

i know you're going for a stylish look, but what i see is
the walls are too light *comparing to the red roofs*
maybe try to lighten the roofs,
or give the walls brownish tune

generally, those buildings are awesome.

It might be necessary to explain a bit on the construction of these buildings. The walls are predominantly whitewashed plaster (no modern paint), virtually appearing blinding against intense sunlight (at least that's what the old photos indicate, and that doesn't take into account moss and large amounts of black, accumulated dirt). The roofs are assumed to be made from clay/terra cotta, giving it a redish/brownish tone. If the walls have elements of unpainted wood or bricks (which use darker tones), the contrast shouldn't be as prevalent.



The best thing that can be done for now is lowering the brightness value of the white down by about 20 from a maximum of 240 and increasing the saturation to match the colour with the darker grays in the ramp. But if I go too low, it won't look like it's whitewashed anymore. The saturation of the roof colour can be lowered some more, but that brings us to the next issue...

Also I do agree about the contrast issue between houses and roofs - on the completely red roofs I get the feeling that they're not actually illuminated by the sun. Contrary to colour-saving tradition I'd say add a brighter colour : D for the parts of roof that are turned towards the sun.

As in using colour(s) with increased saturation?

Right now I feel the houses might be lacking in shading? I like the low contrast in the texture upon the buildings, but maybe some more contrast between light and shadow?

Since you brought up a needlessness to be too adherent to colour count, it's a good idea. A gray shade or two can be added to widen available options.

[The Mozack]

Tweaks. Added two colours in the process for better detailing: One brown (darkest), and one gray (third darkest).




Still want some comments and clarity on the colours of the roof.

[The Mozack]

Finally joined the two blocks. A few details were blocked off, but it's no biggie.

[The Mozack]

Corrections made on shadows based on the height of terrain. Other tweaks.

[The Mozack]

Detailing on the edges of blocks. Some adjustments on road curvature to the right.

Any comments on the roof? This has to be resolved ASAP so I can move on getting started on the next block.

[The Mozack]

Detailed the roofs of the first block anyway. Screw the old look.

[Bissle]

I just want to say this is a really ambitious endeavor!

The roofs look fine, I think with the purely red bricks could use an extra, more-saturated color.

I agree with you about the house in the mid-left, it doesn't seem symmetrical, but it doesn't read right to me in comparison to the others; it's a bit out of perspective. It looks excellent on its own though, and I can't imagine fixing it after all you've already done, so... yeah. 

Excellent work, seriously, and from the first post you've done a lot of research in architecture for this! I dunno whether to commend your skill and patience, or wish I had half as much freetime. xD

[The Mozack]

Thanks, Bissle. If there are any faults that can be easily fixed, do point it out.

In the meantime, I can say these blocks are settled for now. I'll come back to these in full force when I begin adding additional street props, pedestrians, vehicles and flora. These blocks were meant to provide some direction on how the rest of the buildings in the scene will be created, and so it is. At this point, the brick facade covers a very small number of buildings, so I can experiment with brick coluors later on.

I'll now be directing my attention to this block:

[The Mozack]

Structure size hammered out. Had to remeasure individual units after learning the divided lots are too wide. Figured I can leave the ones to the left as it is, as long as they receive some extra decors for a more opulent appearance.

P.S.: This block's floorplan isn't perpendicular.

[The Mozack]

Started again. Detailing at this angle is pretty tricky.

[The Mozack]

Working on some of their roofs now. This shouldn't be as much of a problem as before.

And a little note. The four buildings to the right are based on references; the other three to the left aren't. I'll have to look through other photographs for some ideas for this sort of construction.

[The Mozack]

Reworked the buildings to the left, changing them from three units to four. Figured the wide width of the buildings is more of an exception than a rule.

Also lowered the height of the buildings and changed the facade.

[The Mozack]

First round of detailing. Designs vary between each unit in this row.

[The Mozack]

More detailing. The building to the left features horizontal glass shutters in place of wooden shutters.

[scramblesthedeathdealer]

i really wish i had a fraction of your skill at pixeling. ive just really gotten into pixeling today but im verry intruiged by it. what are the dimensions of your total piece? and what program are you drawing this on?

[The Mozack]

what are the dimensions of your total piece? and what program are you drawing this on?

All I can reveal on the size is that it's pretty...big. I'm barely ~5% in.

And I'm using MS Paint. I have ways of making the most out of its tools.

[Mathias]

MS Paint for this!? You've got to be kidding me. You need layering for stuff like this. I'd probably rather be eaten by army ants than complete this project in MS Paint. And I've used Paint extensively. I know it well. Have you even bothered looking at Gimp? It's free. You won't finish this in Paint.

[The Mozack]

MS Paint for this!? You've got to be kidding me. You need layering for stuff like this. I'd probably rather be eaten by army ants than complete this project in MS Paint. And I've used Paint extensively. I know it well. Have you even bothered looking at Gimp? It's free. You won't finish this in Paint.

Been considering an alternative since a certain thread here commented on the advantages of using more than Paint, for two reasons:

* When I start work on large scale editing, such as on roadways, rivers and vast greenery, I'll have to opt for other programs to streamline the editing process. Paint is still good for small objects (peds and vehicles), but for buildings, it can go both ways.
* If I'm migrating to Windows 7, I'll probably be ditching Paint altogether. That new version of Paint is nothing more than a stripped down Photoshop with nothing to allow me to do pixel-by-pixel work.

Gimp is very a prospective replacement/companion, and I have been meaning to try it out for a long time. Guess it's incentive for me to do it.

BTW, what good will layering do?

[The Mozack]

Further detailing on frontage.

[ptoing]

I really like where this is going.

About layering: With it you could easily move stuff around without the need to repixel overlapping stuff. Like the open windows in the current one which overlap the housefront a bit.
Foundations and roofs could be on seperate layers which would make it easier to duplicate similar roofs among other things. For something as technical as this layers are VERY helpful.

[The Mozack]

About layering: With it you could easily move stuff around without the need to repixel overlapping stuff. Like the open windows in the current one which overlap the housefront a bit.
Foundations and roofs could be on seperate layers which would make it easier to duplicate similar roofs among other things. For something as technical as this layers are VERY helpful.

That's a pretty efficient method. I'll give that a go.

In the meantime, the courtyards will be the next portion to focus on. Started with the buildings to the left.

[The Mozack]

Worked out the courtyards to the right. Should be pretty soon before further detailing can begin.

[mrToad]

Beautiful work... MS Paint....?? Wow. I'd go insane using that. Yes, layers are like unbelievably helpful. These buildings are really cool though.

[Mathias]

More on layering.

I think that those who are aware of the benefits of layering and who continue to only give you crit are doing you a huge disservice in not urging you to go layered. Stop what you're doing and take a week or two to get to know a good layered graphics program. Once you do, I promise you'll look back and laugh hysterically at your old workflow because you didn't make the move sooner. Yes, I have a strong opinion about this. And for a reason.

Though, not a stellar example, here's an example of layering benefits in doing a current project of mine. I made a quick layering breakdown animation for you. Notice all the main peices are on their own layer because I'm able to hide and undhide them at will:



--Here, it doesn't matter what software I use, all that matters is layering support--


I plan to revise that glowy pink/blue crap on the bottom of the layer stack eventually. What if it wasn't layered? I'd have to work around the blade/fire? What if I wanted to move it around? - Well, in my setup, it's on it's own layer so it's a no-brainer, a non-issue.
What if I decide the way I rendered the fire sucks and I need to re-do it? - I hide the layer and save it, create a new layer on top of the blade ans start over.
How do I quickly preview the several different hilts I made to see how they match the rest of the sword? - I simply hide and unhide them.
on and on. . .

For your project, I already know how I'd set it up with layers. Each repeated section would be on it's own layer, which I could then copy/drag with ease amd move each "chunk" separately of all other parts, worry-free. If I don't want a certain part I either hide or delete it. I'd create a separate layer set for all the pink, red, blue guide lines you've created and make them unselectable atop everything else. I might even drop the opacity so I could see through them easily if obstructing my view.

And this is just scratching the surface of layers abilities.

[The Mozack]

Thanks for the heads up. It'll be interesting to see how well layering can be applied here. But I'll have to familiarise myself with the basics of something as advanced as GIMP, especially after using MS Paint for so long. It's going to take a little getting used to.

For now, Paint is still being used for portions of these roofs.

[The Mozack]

Back. Finally started with detailing along the side. The ends of the roof pitches have also being added. It's a shame some of the window trims won't be visible.

Still trying to grow into GIMP.

[The Mozack]

Further detailing on the four rightmost shopfronts. It's a shame some of these will be blocked off by sunshades eventually.

[The Mozack]

Detailing on walls and overhang frames. First go at it using GIMP.

[Opacus]

The windows don't look right. They face head on while the buildings are at a slight angle. I would recommend a pixel difference in height per window. Might wanna try to sync them with the lines of the building.

[The Mozack]

The windows don't look right. They face head on while the buildings are at a slight angle. I would recommend a pixel difference in height per window. Might wanna try to sync them with the lines of the building.

I thought they already are (roughly).


Of course, if the windows look like they are pointing towards the viewer, I can adjust it a little (first window is the original; second and third are edits with the wall to the left set back one and two pixels).

[Ultimaodin]

I did a really really quick edit of what I'm sure Opacus means:



tested: (the edit is the middle window)




However if I were you I'd line the pixel hieght in alighnment to the wood's jaggies, also as Opacus suggested.

[The Mozack]

I did a really really quick edit of what I'm sure Opacus means:



tested: (the edit is the middle window)




However if I were you I'd line the pixel hieght in alighnment to the wood's jaggies, also as Opacus suggested.

Right, that adjustment. I really like to align it properly with the angle of the building, but the biggest problem with this method is evidently present in the images you have provided; it makes the windows look crooked and uneven. It's probably better to sacrifice precision for presentation when dealing with unconventional angles.

[Gil]

I don't agree, I think your current windows stick out a lot, while the edit looks more or less right (maybe slightly overtilted it)

[The Mozack]

I don't agree, I think your current windows stick out a lot, while the edit looks more or less right (maybe slightly overtilted it)

But I still can't accept the fact that it messes up the uniformity of the windows, and that the edited window is only suitable for sightly more sharper angles:


If I was working on buildings that are larger in scale, there should be much more room to work with and give the windows a slight angle, as Ultimaodin has pointed out.


But given the size of this scene, I can't help imagining the facade looking more like this:


Not that I'm not open to C&C, but I would like to take a good look at examples that apply the methods explained by Ultimaodin, to prove me wrong. I'm also open to alternate methods that can resolve this problem. AA, perhaps?

[ptoing]

The main problem you have here is not the angle as such but the spacing of the windows and them not being on angle at all (which wont happen unless you treat every window separately(take number 2 and AA from there), which would be a lot of work and still look odd as the windows which are the same would look different (so there still would be a perceived visual conflict)

Both yours and Ultimaodin's look equally off when applied to all windows, but I think aaing something like what Ultimaodin did (example 4) would work OK.
I did not even have to add new colours.

There still is the problem of the middle window being 2 pixels down from the 1st and then the last being down only 1 pixel from the middle one. For this I think there is no good solution apart from rearranging the windows to make them seem more even.

Anyway, if you AA these windows, I think you need to AA the rest of your shallow angles too, as well as other places to make it look uniform.

Good luck. I really like your effort on this and am enjoying each update.

[Manupix]

I think the best point in Ultimaodin's edit is the asymmetry in the shutters, this by itself gives a stronger depth and sideways feeling.
AA would of course help, but this is opening the door to AAing the whole piece: yikes.

Here's my try at it:



1 = original; 2 = shutter change only; 3 = + simpler AA

[The Mozack]

Figured may as well shift my attention to other unfinished parts of the block and leave the windows' fine tuning for last when final detailing is made.

Spent pretty much the entire week on the roof; GIMP has not help an awful lot when dabbing pixel by pixel. Still, the roof is about 60-70% done.



And Manupix was spot on on the shutters. One factor to the windows' unusual angle is the symmetry of the shutters. This has been rectified in the image above, but it's not close to resolution until all possibilities are weighed in. As for AA, if one has to apply it for the scene for proper presentation, I can't imagine the amount of backtracking one has to do on other parts of the scene.

[WM]

...



...

The step units leading into the street confuse me; the black line running under each unit makes them look as though they are connected to a wall and floating in the air, but then, in relation to the floor under them, they look like they're on flat ground. 

Other than that, I'm loving it! What a great idea for a project!

[The Mozack]

The step units leading into the street confuse me; the black line running under each unit makes them look as though they are connected to a wall and floating in the air, but then, in relation to the floor under them, they look like they're on flat ground.  

That would be the an exposed storm drain, and the steps are meant to cross over it. It's standard street planning for a town like this.

EDIT: Of course, the drains here do look like they blend in with the base of the buildings, so a minor recolour may be in order.

[WM]

Ah, I see! Yeah, I think a little shading will go a long way with differentiating that drop-off from the floor.

[Manupix]

I hadn't noticed those drains!

Are they really that close to the houses and pillars?
Is there no railing or protection?

I'm so nerdish about drains, sewers and that stuff. 

[The Mozack]

I hadn't noticed those drains!

Are they really that close to the houses and pillars?
Is there no railing or protection?

For main streets, drains are typically dug out between the roadway and the covered walkway (exposed sidewalks are not common in built up areas of the town). Side streets need not include any sidewalks, so the drains along these roadways hug the sides of buildings or boundaries in each block. And yes, there are no railings. Pedestrians or vehicles CAN fall into the drain by accident. An exception to the rule may be municipal buildings, where concrete slabs may be placed over drains to cover up its unsightliness. Also, the drains will usually have to be substantially deep to handle excess rainwater. The climate here calls for rainy seasons which can trigger overflowing of nearby rivers, and flooding.

I'm having a hard time finding exact illustrations (given people here don't seem to have an interest in these things), but here is one that roughly depicts the type of design I'm aiming for:

Of course, the drain I would be using for this part of town will typically be much shallower (knee deep, the most) and narrower, and lack these support pillars. Also, the drains to be illustrated are meant to be made of from pre-fab concrete pieces, instead of the more elaborate rock-and-concrete construction pictured. However, the latter design may be used for wider and sturdier mainline drainage leading to rivers (the drainage route can be hammered out later).

[The Mozack]

Coming back to this, several bits of detailing has been done. AA on the windows should begin sooner or later.

Damn, 3 months for this one block.

[Bork]

Hey mozack, Ive been watching you on DA since 2003 but youre not very active over there. Glad to see youre still rocking the pixels. Its very refreshing to see an isometric scene that isnt 100% aligned to the iso angles for every single building like most scenes are.

[The Mozack]

Roof's almost done.

Will move on to fixing those windows.

[The Mozack]

Windows done.

[The Mozack]

Additional detailing. Shame all that work on the shopfronts are wasted. That's vernacular architecture for you.

[Jakerpot]

Wow, amazing work mate 

Rounded isometric buildings never look right when i try to make them.

[The Mozack]

Adjustments on details. Expanded on drainage.

[circuscommando]

i don't know if banding is a large issue for you, but it can be pretty distracting.  looks lovely overall though!

[The Mozack]

i don't know if banding is a large issue for you, but it can be pretty distracting.  looks lovely overall though!

Was aware of it for a very long time. Problem is, how much banding can you avoid in an perspective that has no vanishing point? Most of the lines run parallel, and effort was made to avoid as much blatant banding when it isn't need.

[The Mozack]

Roof shadows added.

Finally! Now I can move on to drainage on the previous blocks before starting a new block.

[The Mozack]

Starting new block...



This one is on the other side of town. Turns out the rough width of the building is too wide after all. I'll have to fix this on the main canvas sooner or later.

[The Mozack]

Hammering out structural form. This is based off an IRL reference, BTW, with two more buildings added in to the left.

[The Mozack]

Finally back. Started work on details of the 6 buildings from the left.



I'm not sure if I want to show off the whole layout just yet. I'll probably do when I complete another 3-4 blocks.

[Mathias]

He's still going . . .

The perseverance.

So, what will the end result be use for? What's the motivation for this whole project?

[The Mozack]

Back to work.

Windows are coming along OK.

[The Mozack]

A bit of detailing done.