AuthorTopic: Crazy Cat [WIP]  (Read 18281 times)

Offline Ddawg

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Crazy Cat [WIP]

on: July 28, 2009, 12:16:16 am
I was inspired to make Crazy Cat when I looked at my dog.  :lol:



what 'Crazy Cat' looks like now:
« Last Edit: August 03, 2009, 04:13:54 pm by CommanderD »
I don\'t want to be a bad boy like I was in the *gulp* past...Please be patient with me.

Offline Quake

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Re: Simply Improving (WIPs)

Reply #1 on: July 28, 2009, 12:20:10 am
yes it is :]

.jpeg isn't xD

Offline Ddawg

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Re: Simply Improving (WIPs)

Reply #2 on: July 28, 2009, 12:22:27 am
it's not a JPEG. it's a bitmap. is that aloud?
I don\'t want to be a bad boy like I was in the *gulp* past...Please be patient with me.

Offline Atnas

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Re: Simply Improving (WIPs)

Reply #3 on: July 28, 2009, 12:42:20 am
It's not really a matter of what's allowed, it's what's practical. Many image hosts convert .bmp files to .jpg files which cause noisy corruptions to the image, called artifacts. Pixel art is preferrably not viewed as a jpg because artifacts basically undermine the end goal of pixel art. In some cases it's okay for viewing because the pixel art is lower detail and no important information is lost, but for most purposes, this included, it's good to not post as a jpg. Bmps are converted because they are large and unwieldy. You'd be best off saving your pixel art as a gif or png because they are lightweight and lossless.  :)

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Re: Simply Improving (WIPs)

Reply #4 on: July 28, 2009, 02:07:01 am
Fair warning: Do NOT make a whole lot of threads with new stuff before you have actually finished one to a satisfactory result and actually used the critique.
This forum is not for spamming doodles and then not even listening to people.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

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Re: Simply Improving (WIPs)

Reply #5 on: July 28, 2009, 12:59:04 pm
Atnas: The problem with GIFs is they mess with your colors. And you can't make PNGs transparent.
I guess my best option would be to save it as a PNG, though. Transparentsy isn't a big deal, right?

ptoing: Atnas said he didn't think much more could come out of the last thread I posted. I agree with him. It wasn't exactly a 'satisfactory result', but it was done.

Update for Crazy Cat:


Did alot of stuff here...Removed the teeth outline, re-did the shading, re-did the eyes, removed the neck, shortined the tounge, and made a pointy tooth. Also, I took Atnas' advice of saving it as a PNG.

EDIT: named him Crazy Cat. ::)
« Last Edit: July 28, 2009, 01:03:08 pm by CommanderD »
I don\'t want to be a bad boy like I was in the *gulp* past...Please be patient with me.

Offline Reo

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Re: Simply Improving (WIPs)

Reply #6 on: July 28, 2009, 01:25:04 pm
Atnas: The problem with GIFs is they mess with your colors. And you can't make PNGs transparent.
I guess my best option would be to save it as a PNG, though. Transparentsy isn't a big deal, right?
Gifs only mess with your colors if you save something as a .gif in paint, you can use Giffy(can also make it trans) http://www.pixeljoint.com/files/giffy23.zip
Or just another program than Paint.
And you CAN make Png's transparent....

Offline Ddawg

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Re: Simply Improving (WIPs)

Reply #7 on: July 28, 2009, 04:57:36 pm
I have Giffy, and it doesn't do anything to colors...And I know you CAN make PNGs transparent...

And, I don't mean to be rude, but if someone could give me some C&C that'd be nice.
I don\'t want to be a bad boy like I was in the *gulp* past...Please be patient with me.

Offline adcrusher524

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Re: Simply Improving (WIPs)

Reply #8 on: July 28, 2009, 05:22:33 pm
I'm  not too good, but i thought i found some things u could improve. First, the cat doesn't seem to have ears. It has the pointy thing on its head though. put some pink in there to show that it's the cats ears. The red stuff in the cats eyes are kind of confusing. make them 1 pixel thick and i think that will help it. The teeth are really hard to read. At first i thought it was a collar of some sort. I would put some outlines on them. I think you should give the cats neck back because it looks like a floating head to me. Also,  some of the dark shades aren't dark enough and the light shades aren't bright enough. Make the darks darker and some of the brights brighter. When you shade dark, shift the hue just a little bit to a colder color like blue or purple. When you add highlights, shift the hue a little bit to a warm color like orange or yellow.


P.S. I would reccomend you use Graphics gale. It's really simple and easy to use.



And my terrible edit:

Offline LoTekK

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Re: Simply Improving (WIPs)

Reply #9 on: July 28, 2009, 05:29:42 pm
Quote
you can't make PNGs transparent.
Quote
And I know you CAN make PNGs transparent...

Sorry, what?

Frankly, I can't imagine why anyone would actually want to give you c&c, seeing as you tend to either ignore it, or worse, refute it, claiming you already know this. Yes, I CAN shade. Yes, I DO know how to do this. Yes, I DO know this. Yes, I CAN do this. Shortly after, you drop the thread, and start something else, occasionally not even showing anything before dropping it once again. Whatever critique is provided is ultimately wasted effort on the part of the people attempting to help. So yes, you /are/ being rather rude, and to people who are taking time out of their day in the hopeful assumption that you actually give a hoot.

As far as c&c goes:
Your lines and curves are messy, like you sketched them out without doing any cleanup. Your shading is all over the place, messy, lacking in contrast, and uses entirely too many colors for what you're achieving. I could go on, but it'll likely get ignored anyway.

Offline Dr D

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Re: Simply Improving (WIPs)

Reply #10 on: July 28, 2009, 05:34:05 pm
I think you're using way too many colors, and it's not just in this piece, you do actually do it a lot.

If you can't shade and properly show form and volume using only 2 or 3 colors, then doing it with more will certainly not help you. Try shading using only 3 colors per element, it should be less of a hassle using less colors, would look more pixel-arty, clear and readable, and would allow us to help you more, as we can identify your problem areas easier.

Hopefully that'll get rid of some of the banding as well. Honestly, the way you're using the extra colors just seem to succeed in lowering the quality of the image.

Make sure you have clean lines, and readable / identifiable shapes.

Also, what adcrusher and LoTekK said.

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Re: Simply Improving (WIPs)

Reply #11 on: July 28, 2009, 05:41:43 pm
Frankly, I can't imagine why anyone would actually want to give you c&c, seeing as you tend to either ignore it, or worse, refute it, claiming you already know this. Yes, I CAN shade. Yes, I DO know how to do this. Yes, I DO know this. Yes, I CAN do this. Shortly after, you drop the thread, and start something else, occasionally not even showing anything before dropping it once again. Whatever critique is provided is ultimately wasted effort on the part of the people attempting to help. So yes, you /are/ being rather rude, and to people who are taking time out of their day in the hopeful assumption that you actually give a hoot.

Actually, the kid is only 11 years old (according to the profile), so it probably explains the way he post. It's still unacceptable, but I don't think he meant to be mean.

For the artwork, you're obviously new, so before you start making new things, try finding a reference and duplicate what they did. You can learn a lot by going through the same motion and understanding why they did things the way they did. If that is too boring, try editing some game character sprite to your own. All these are easier, and a lot to learn.

Hope that helps.

Offline snowsoft

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Re: Simply Improving (WIPs)

Reply #12 on: July 28, 2009, 06:27:30 pm
Dr D is right on the money with the shading thing. I remember when I first started I was using way too many colors, and most of them you could barely tell there was a difference at all.

I think you had like 7 or so different shades of each color which was really not necessary, and was barely noticeable until I went to do an edit on your piece.

A few things I did, were to clean up a few jaggies I noticed, and reduce/change some colors. Granted, I altered the piece itself a bit as well to something I thought looked a little better, but it may not be in line with the style you want. I gave the cat a few more facial features (nose, little hairs on his head, etc) and a little more of a mouth. Before, his entire lower half of his head was just teeth and looked strange to me. Also, it looked like you were giving him a fang on our left side, but there was a line through it (maybe an accident?) that made it seem like he had a weird lower tooth. I probably could've gotten a little more in depth on the edit, but this was just something quick I thought might help.

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Re: Simply Improving (WIPs)

Reply #13 on: July 28, 2009, 11:08:10 pm
Everyone: I'm sorry I always turned down my C&C, and on this thread, I'll start accepting it. And I'll start accepting it all the time. But I never meant to turn it down, or be mean to anybody, I simply thought the peice was finished and/or dumb. (which now I see was foolish) I truly apologize.

adcrusher524: I like what you said about the teeth and ears, but the neck might not come back. I just don't like it. You really gave me a big peice of advice on the shading and lighting, thanks. Also, I'll clean up the teeth.

snowsoft: I'll work on the big tooth. I'll try to make it stand out more.

I don't quite understand what you guys said about my lines being messy, but...I'll work on it.
I don\'t want to be a bad boy like I was in the *gulp* past...Please be patient with me.

Offline Scribblette

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Re: Simply Improving (WIPs)

Reply #14 on: July 28, 2009, 11:44:20 pm
*cheers for CommanderD growing up quick*

I think when people talk about messy lines they're talking about drawing lines and curves so they look cleaner. There are a few tutorials about that on the internet - the last one I saw was over on OpenGameArt by Les Forges: http://opengameart.org/content/chapter-2-lines-and-curves

It has a clear example of what could be considered messy, or full of 'jaggies', compared to a 'clean' line.



When you compare the edits people have given you with your own work, you might be able to spot them making similar changes to that!
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Re: Simply Improving (WIPs)

Reply #15 on: July 29, 2009, 04:43:37 pm
Alrighty, new update:


Buffed out the tooth a little, redid all the teeth, took adcrusher524's advice on the ears. Redid the eyes, removed the tounge and cleaned up my lines a little. (I think)
« Last Edit: July 31, 2009, 01:11:40 am by CommanderD »
I don\'t want to be a bad boy like I was in the *gulp* past...Please be patient with me.

Offline ~*McMuffn*~

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Re: Simply Improving (WIPs)

Reply #16 on: July 29, 2009, 05:39:23 pm
the big tooth he has hangin out of his mouth looks freakin weird.
u need to sraiten up his teeth also. his ears dont have like holes in them,
if u know what im trying to say-the look like there on backwards.
but other than those things he looks good. =)
i dont even no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Simply Improving (WIPs)

Reply #17 on: July 29, 2009, 07:18:25 pm
The problem with the big tooth is that it should be coming from his upper jaw. Popping out of his other tooth there doesn't make a whole lot of sense. If you don't know what I mean, take a look at the edit snowsoft already did for you.
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Offline Ddawg

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Re: Simply Improving (WIPs)

Reply #18 on: July 29, 2009, 09:27:00 pm
Regulus Awesome: I'm so stupid for putting it on the bottom. :huh: ...I'll fix that.

~*McMuffn*~: The ears aren't backwards. The holes in animals' ears always point away from their bodys. But, you are right about the teeth.

Adcrusher524, I tried to download 'Graphicsgale' and it said: "setup files are corrupted" or something like that. Where's the place you downloaded it? And do you have to have a specific version of windows for it?

PS: I think it's safe to change the thread name to "Crazy Cat", right?
« Last Edit: July 29, 2009, 09:35:30 pm by CommanderD »
I don\'t want to be a bad boy like I was in the *gulp* past...Please be patient with me.

Offline adcrusher524

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Re: Simply Improving (WIPs)

Reply #19 on: July 29, 2009, 10:13:19 pm
I'm not sure why it didn't download. I downloaded it from here http://www.humanbalance.net/gale/us/download.html

Offline SWOT

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Re: Simply Improving (WIPs)

Reply #20 on: July 29, 2009, 10:52:17 pm
Whats with the teeth, theres just a cluster of one color.

Offline Ddawg

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Re: Simply Improving (WIPs)

Reply #21 on: July 30, 2009, 01:19:03 am
Not a very big update but, here you guys go:


So, what now? Any more improvments? ::)

PS to adcrusher524: That's where I got it, too... :'(
« Last Edit: July 30, 2009, 01:22:37 am by CommanderD »
I don\'t want to be a bad boy like I was in the *gulp* past...Please be patient with me.

Offline Atnas

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Re: Crazy Cat [WIP]

Reply #22 on: July 30, 2009, 01:33:24 am
No, there you go. This is purely for your sake, because you choose to post here and we choose to give you critique.  :)

I really would consider taking another look at the critique and nice edit which were given by snowsoft. Compare what you have now, with what he has demonstrated, and ask yourself what parts make his structurally sound, and why his looks like a cat. Search for pictures of cats. A cartoon is impossible without a realistic source to simplify from, it is merely the nature of the style. Look at snowsoft's shading, and ask yourself if your shading achieves actually coming close to what you would see in life, or more simply a 3d model.

Poor kitty. :[

Offline ~*McMuffn*~

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Re: Crazy Cat [WIP]

Reply #23 on: July 30, 2009, 01:43:10 am
i think u need better shading, ~duh~(that'd be his name)
idk what else
i dont even no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Offline Ddawg

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Re: Crazy Cat [WIP]

Reply #24 on: July 30, 2009, 03:28:32 pm
~*McMuffn~*: you don't know what your talking about.  >:D

Atnas: Don't really get what you mean. This is the way I've always shaded stuff, and you've never said anything before. how about you give me an edit yourself and I'll see what I can do.

Newest Update: Added some AA. (I didn't really know if it needed it.)

 Better Or Worse? And What's wrong with his retarted ears? :huh:
« Last Edit: August 03, 2009, 04:18:45 pm by CommanderD »
I don\'t want to be a bad boy like I was in the *gulp* past...Please be patient with me.

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Re: Crazy Cat [WIP]

Reply #25 on: July 30, 2009, 11:03:17 pm
Okay, the dither is definitely hurting. Ouch. Have you tried looking at a real cat for reference?
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Offline adcrusher524

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Re: Crazy Cat [WIP]

Reply #26 on: July 31, 2009, 12:50:56 am
I agree, the dithering isn't working for this peice. It looked better before you added it.

I suggest you make a full cat head like Snowsoft edit showed because right now it's hard to tell what the animal is. To me, the teeth don't look like they are part of the face. I'm not sure how to fix that though  :( Maybe someone else knows.

For the ears, I think looking at a reference should help you out with that.

(I may be wrong on some of this)

Good luck!

Offline Ddawg

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Re: Crazy Cat [WIP]

Reply #27 on: July 31, 2009, 01:04:53 am
Yeah, I'll need that luck... ::)
Say goodbye to dithering!
I don't really like references, and I don't really like to make what I say it is, look like what I say it is.
I feel like I'm taking 1 step foward and 2 steps back on this peice. What am I supposed to do?? :'(
« Last Edit: July 31, 2009, 01:13:30 am by CommanderD »
I don\'t want to be a bad boy like I was in the *gulp* past...Please be patient with me.

Offline Scribblette

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Re: Crazy Cat [WIP]

Reply #28 on: July 31, 2009, 01:38:05 am
Trust the advice folk have given you. Most of us have said use a reference - several times. It's not about whether you LIKE it - it's about creating a foundation of knowledge to work on. I used to think I could just draw from ideas as well. It took me several years to figure out THAT was the reason I always felt like I was taking 1 step forward, 2 steps back.

Draw from what you see. Once our brains understand how to do that well, it has much more luck drawing what we THINK instead. You don't have to stop once you've drawn a reference picture - you can do all sorts of crazy stuff afterwards. The idea in your head is based on reality, after all - why shouldn't your crazy cat be based on something vaguely real, too?

It will help you. It will not kill your ideas. (Do it in this thread, too).

The closest images I've found to what you have there are:
http://nikipedia87.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/a033-cartoon-cat-clipart2.jpg and
http://www.electriceasel.co.uk/Generalcartoons/images/CatMousePS.jpg

Remember, your crazy cat can still be as unique as you want it to. Drawing from references is to help you - not confine you.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2009, 01:39:56 am by Scribblette »
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Offline Ddawg

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Re: Crazy Cat [WIP]

Reply #29 on: July 31, 2009, 02:48:38 am
Wow, thanks Scribblette. I'll start using a reference from now on.
And I did this before my reference, so...don't make fun of it. :D


Oh, man I'm sleepy. Talk to you guys tomorrow.


New update, WEEEEEEEEEEEEE!


I...Changed the shading a little, redid the ears once again, (This is the best of got them to look) made his head bigger out around his teeth, made the teeth a TINY bit brigther, and you can't tell it but I did some work on the eyes.

(Where'd you guys go? Everyone was helping me out a while ago, and now...)

« Last Edit: August 01, 2009, 04:26:24 pm by CommanderD »
I don\'t want to be a bad boy like I was in the *gulp* past...Please be patient with me.

Offline ~*McMuffn*~

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Re: Crazy Cat [WIP]

Reply #30 on: August 03, 2009, 01:45:54 am
It's lookin good, lil bro!   i think u need to fix the shape of his head tho, if u look at it you'll see that it looks like a ball
maybe u need to look at a real cat.
(and just between me and u, u already knew that i didnt know what i was talking about when i started. DUH!!  When do i know what im talkin about??)
=) luv ya
i dont even no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Offline Ddawg

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Re: Crazy Cat [WIP]

Reply #31 on: August 03, 2009, 04:09:28 pm
~*McMuffn*~: I am looking at a real cat. Remember what we've been saying about references?

Here's the dealio; If you mirror your image your brain can figure out more mistakes. (Learned that from EvilEye) So I mirrored the image and found some more errors:


Then I mirrored it again and here's the newest update:
I don\'t want to be a bad boy like I was in the *gulp* past...Please be patient with me.

Offline ~*McMuffn*~

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Re: Crazy Cat [WIP]

Reply #32 on: August 03, 2009, 04:36:54 pm
i think u should give up  it looked better before u mirrored it
i dont even no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Offline Varish

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Re: Crazy Cat [WIP]

Reply #33 on: August 03, 2009, 04:57:54 pm
It does not seem to be very readable as a cat; it looks like a demon or somehting. Maybe giving it a nose or whiskers would help it look like a cat.
I made an edit:

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Re: Crazy Cat [WIP]

Reply #34 on: August 03, 2009, 05:42:27 pm
The problem I have with this piece is that it simply does not look like the subject intended. I suggest you study the reference in much more detail.

I don't think that a cartoony style is what you should be going for right now actually. Not if you want to eventually become better at pixel art. You're trying to shade an imaginary shape, which is such an abstract concept that it will not teach you anything about how light falls on an actual existing shape.

Offline Ddawg

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Re: Crazy Cat [WIP]

Reply #35 on: August 03, 2009, 08:05:36 pm
Alright, but I want to keep working on this peice. Cuz I've given up on alot of my work, so...

Anyway, do you guys have any tips on how to make him look furry, or how to make the whiskers? I tried to make whiskers and it looked like crap. Plus, everyone keeps talking about the shape of his head. What do you want me do? I think his head looks fine. ::)

NEW UPDATE ONCE MORE:


oops...I got transperncy and accidently made his eye transparent. I'll be fixing that. 8)
« Last Edit: August 03, 2009, 08:09:40 pm by CommanderD »
I don\'t want to be a bad boy like I was in the *gulp* past...Please be patient with me.

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Re: Crazy Cat [WIP]

Reply #36 on: August 03, 2009, 09:05:22 pm
Listen to the advice given and start from scratch, you can't do much on your present version.
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Offline Scribblette

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Re: Crazy Cat [WIP]

Reply #37 on: August 03, 2009, 11:44:27 pm
-- and when they say start from scratch, they don't mean abandon this project/thread and to pick another one - they mean to stay in this thread, stay focused on a cat, grab a reference (such as the two provided, or use a real life photo of a cat instead), work on that and see what you learn and show us, THEN see how you can re-imagine this existing 'crazy cat'.

Do it and it's rather likely you will wind up very happy with yourself.
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Offline ~*McMuffn*~

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Re: Crazy Cat [WIP]

Reply #38 on: August 03, 2009, 11:49:00 pm
his eyes should be lookin the other way. it looks like his head is all twisted up.
i dont even no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Crazy Cat [WIP]

Reply #39 on: August 04, 2009, 12:04:16 am
I reshaped the head and did whiskers now, so I don't want to start all over again. That's why I got mad on all my other threads. I want to keep working on the same (exact) peice.

I'll update later.
I don\'t want to be a bad boy like I was in the *gulp* past...Please be patient with me.

Offline Scribblette

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Re: Crazy Cat [WIP]

Reply #40 on: August 04, 2009, 12:11:21 am
#1 In order to make the progress you want, you really should take everyone's advice: put this existing cat on hold, draw a cat from the reference in this thread, let people help you on that and then come back to this cat. You are not abandoning this. It is very unlikely that you will make the progress you want until you do.

#2 One alternative is to draw on paper how you would like this to look, and then scan it or photograph it and link it here so we could possibly help you better. Follow it up with a pixel art outline - without colours, just the line art - and people can help you correct that, and you can get closer to your crazy cat with the fundamentals right.

I'd recommend #1 first before anything, though.

Edit - Agreed with the chap below me, too. :)
« Last Edit: August 04, 2009, 02:05:29 am by Scribblette »
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Offline #36005A

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Re: Crazy Cat [WIP]

Reply #41 on: August 04, 2009, 01:50:41 am
Follow it up with a pixel art outline - without colours, just the line art...

Or perhaps, to better illustrate 3 dimensional form (and the way light hits an object), just "block in" the volumes. Even if it's just using a large brush in grayscale.
See this post by AdomAtomic for more info: http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=6794.msg79015#msg79015

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Re: Crazy Cat [WIP]

Reply #42 on: August 04, 2009, 12:56:40 pm
#36005A: Wow, that sounds weird. I might try it, though.

Scribblette: I just don't see how drawing can help you PIXEL art better. I'm not trying to be mean but I'm just saying...
And this is how I want it to look, but just improved.

And I also thought about what some of you have said about how light falls onto an object or whatever, and I'll work on the shading and stuff later on. But for right now what I want to do is get the whiskers to look alright and shape his head out. Maybe later on I'll do the "shades of gray" thing #36005A suggested.

Whiskers and head shape. Better now?

Which one of these 3 do you think looks better? I'm thinking 2. (The difference is the whiskers)

PS: is it readable as a cat, now? ???

 
« Last Edit: August 04, 2009, 01:06:43 pm by CommanderD »
I don\'t want to be a bad boy like I was in the *gulp* past...Please be patient with me.

Offline EkbatDeSebat

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Re: Crazy Cat [WIP]

Reply #43 on: August 04, 2009, 03:38:49 pm
Scribblette: I just don't see how drawing can help you PIXEL art better. I'm not trying to be mean but I'm just saying...

Whether you are drawing with pen on paper, painting on canvas or drawing/pixeling on a computer: you are working on art! Over the past several hundred years, certain techniques have been developed to render an image. It would be unwise to not look into it, as you will deny yourself the basics of art. Which apply to pixeling as well.
It doesn't matter if you want to create a realistic image or a caricature: The same rules of art still apply.

Let me give you an exagerated example:

Simple basics like rendering a shadow on a sphere correctly so that the sphere looks round. And not something else. I'm sure you can tell that the right image is not a sphere.
It won't be a sphere in a realistic setting. And also not in a comic setting. The science of the right shadow is simply faulty.

So I'd advise to look at some realistic stuff (be it a cat or a ball) and draw that on paper. Wielding a pencil is a lot easier than figuring out where to place your next pixel, and it puts you pretty much at the same place where all the great artists once started :)
Draw, a lot! At least one hour a day and draw not what you think you see but what you actually see.
I think you can put that to the test by drawing a mug or teacup. It's the infamous test to see how your technique is developing (or not).

Hope this helps in any way!

Offline Ddawg

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Re: Crazy Cat [WIP]

Reply #44 on: August 04, 2009, 04:35:09 pm
People think they know me. ::)
I do draw, I have my own character and I draw him like 10 times a day in a note book I got just for him.
I put him in comics, and I have some other characters he can interact with. I draw perfectly fine, but I don't like to DRAW pixel art. That's just me. 8)

And as you can see here...
(I did the Black & white thing)
...I fixed the shading.

Now, you have to agree he looks like a cat now. And like I said, I'll work on the COLORED shading later.
For right now, I want to work on his head and his whiskers. (with pixel art, not paper.)
I don\'t want to be a bad boy like I was in the *gulp* past...Please be patient with me.

Offline Larwick

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Re: Crazy Cat [WIP]

Reply #45 on: August 04, 2009, 05:47:52 pm
People think they know me. ::)
I do draw, I have my own character and I draw him like 10 times a day in a note book I got just for him.
I put him in comics, and I have some other characters he can interact with. I draw perfectly fine, but I don't like to DRAW pixel art. That's just me. 8)


Sorry to be offtopic but i have to point out that you've misunderstood what we're trying to say. Drawing your own character, as you say, is not the same as drawing from life. Drawing from life will help you to understand lighting, curves, textures, different surface qualities, object anatomy and many more key points.
You say you don't like to 'draw' pixel art, but try to think of it that you ARE drawing pixel art when you click your mouse on the screen. The same rules apply with linework, shading, lighting in pencil drawing as they do in pixel art. Also just to be sure, when we tell you to draw to practice pixel art, we don't mean for you to draw pixels on paper. Just draw like normal. If you simply don't want to draw from life, and say that it's just the way you are ... have you thought that it may be a good idea to change your attitude to this?

 :y:

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Re: Crazy Cat [WIP]

Reply #46 on: August 04, 2009, 10:59:16 pm
have you thought that it may be a good idea to change your attitude to this?

Yes.

My current attitude: I don't give a crap about drawing, how's that gonna help me do PIXEL art on my computer?

What I want my attitude to be: 'Thanks, I'll just fix that on my COMPUTER.'

And who said anything about pixeling on paper? You guys just don't get it.

If your gonna help me pixel, thank you very much, but if not... :'(

I would really like it if we all could start over, and I could listen to some USEFUL advice about how to pixel on a COMPUTER.

What I am generaly trying to say is: Just help me pixel, I will accept your C&C on pixeling. But please just don't say anything about drawing. :yell:


STARTING OVER: How can I improve my Crazy Cat?

Which of these whiskers looks better? I'm thinking 2.

And here's a black and white version:


So what do you think? How can I improve this?
« Last Edit: August 04, 2009, 11:14:50 pm by CommanderD »
I don\'t want to be a bad boy like I was in the *gulp* past...Please be patient with me.

Offline Dr D

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Re: Crazy Cat [WIP]

Reply #47 on: August 04, 2009, 11:07:12 pm
Sorry, but I just don't think you're getting it. Pixelling is drawing.

Pixel Art is just a medium.

Drawing on paper can be art, and pixelling can be art. In the end what you want is good art, and to learn it, you study the fundamentals, and practice them. It applies to any medium you use.

I don't think there's anything wrong with you trying to use the computer to make art as a beginner, although I don't recommend it. I just think it's the fact that you're not really getting it that's getting everyone so worked up and reluctant to help.

Drawing, using a different medium, WILL help you pixel, or make better art.

Now if you mean to say, help me use the strictly pixel-art oriented pixel techniques, (such as dithering, anti-aliasing, etc.) then you should say that, although it's not going to help you make better art, really.

Also, in your above example, when you say you fixed the shading, I don't mean to be rude, but you really didn't, you might be impervious to seeing it as you don't seem to have the knowledge in your fundamentals. It's a good thing though, that you posted in black and white. Leave the detailing, anti-aliasing, for later.

You cat still needs a nose.

Offline Ddawg

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Re: Crazy Cat [WIP]

Reply #48 on: August 04, 2009, 11:17:59 pm
Okay, I'm on your side now.

But I just STILL don't see why you can't teach me what you would on paper, in pixeling.

I WILL start all over, with better shading, if you guys promise to not talk about drawing. ;)
I don\'t want to be a bad boy like I was in the *gulp* past...Please be patient with me.

Offline bengo

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Re: Crazy Cat [WIP]

Reply #49 on: August 04, 2009, 11:58:27 pm
If you don't learn, we can't help you, its be much easier to use pencil and paper than click around with a mouse in ms paint, larger draw space, easier to use pencil, can carry around with you, easy to life draw with. As said before, pixelling is just a medium, if you draw with pencil and paper it will cross over into your pixel work, thus allowing you to make more visually pleasing pieces, you will also be more confident in what you do. Do you think Atnas, Helm, Ptoing, any good or half-decent pixel artist has not life drawn? Its proven to work, use it to your advantage.

Offline Scribblette

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Re: Crazy Cat [WIP]

Reply #50 on: August 05, 2009, 01:24:33 am
Here are your options:

1. Do what you're doing, and wonder why you're not making the progress you want. "One step forward, two steps back." Waste several years - LIKE I DID!  :'( - like MANY other people here have done - thinking that pixel art is somehow completely INDEPENDENT of drawing (on whatever medium). Art is art*.

2. Listen to the wise people here. Listen to them speaking, gurbling, drowned beneath their blood, sweat and tears. Mostly tears. The best thing you can probably do is to draw this crazy cat - and practice pictures of real cats and cartoon cats - on paper so that people can see what you want it to look like, so they can help you translate your drawing into pixel art.

I don't know much, but I know art takes practice. Drawing from a reference is practice. Drawing something before pixelling it is practice - and planning. If you're getting the basics of art wrong, it'll make pixel art harder. Your black and white shading shows (to me, anyway) that you are getting the basics wrong. Look at Snowsoft's edit again (below), and see where the shadows are - perhaps you don't want a nose on your cat, but then where are the whiskers coming from?

vs

Pixel art without a reference, pixel art without planning, pixel art without practice = disappointment and wasted years with only the occasional 'lucky' pixel piece.

*Unless it's new age and a giant blank canvas of one colour.
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Offline adcrusher524

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Re: Crazy Cat [WIP]

Reply #51 on: August 05, 2009, 01:49:02 am
CommanderD,
    drawing with a pencil and paper doesn't seem like it would help you learn pixel art at all, but it does. A lot. I used to think "why would i draw on paper when i can do the same thing on my computer?" But my brother (he taught me alot of stuff) kept telling me pretty much the same thing people here are telling u, draw real things on paper. Use references. After i practiced drawing real things for a while, my pixel art became better.  If you learn to draw real things well, pixel art should come easier to you.

Offline miscdude

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Re: Crazy Cat [WIP]

Reply #52 on: August 05, 2009, 09:45:45 am
...
The point of mentioning regular mediums in this topic is to try and let you know that you have to possess basic artistic skills before you can apply them in difficult mediums such as pixel art. Drawing on the computer and drawing on paper are only different in the sense that you (if you don't own a tablet) are using a mouse. This doesn't mean that principals such as constrast, proper shading, learning from life don't apply in pixel art, it just means that you use a different tool in a different setting to create them. If you look at a ball, shade it in pencil, and try to make a ball in pixel art, you don't simply forget what you learned about the shading of the ball because you're on a computer. You drew it from life, using it as a reference for learning, and can apply it in different mediums such as pixel art. art is art (as scribblette so well said), whether you're on a computer, drawing in pencil, painting, or even sculpting. You apply the same skills you learn everywhere in art. On a personal note, when saying to people who try to offer you help that you don't care about your art, it is essentially giving them a slap in the face for taking time out of their days to help you.