[WIP] Shiny robots

[EkbatDeSebat]

hi guys,

so I'm working on this little game idea that also features these retro style robots, walking across the surface of Mars.
The left batch is the default metal. And on the right I made the highlights slightly red, because of Mars' surface color.

I'm trying to get their smooth metal texture right, as I'll also be making some large spaceships in the same style.
And since they'll have much larger smooth metal surfaces, I'd like to get the grading really really goodlooking.

So... what do you think? C&C is more than welcome!

[miscdude]

the coloring on the right is far better, in my opinion. as far as smoothness goes, I think the biggest problem I see is the outlines. you did a great job with the legs of some of them, they have a very shiny, smooth appearance. but then the outlines on the other parts just makes them stand out and look strange.

[EkbatDeSebat]

thanx miscdude! But... I like outlines... 

[Souly]

I also like black outlines, but yea I think your problem here is you have a black outline on the body, but the legs and the top head part dont?
That's what looks strange.

I'd suggest maybe even trying something along these lines.

Anyways awesome stuff regardless it just needs some consistancy in the sprites.

edit: heh I just realized the light is coming in from the left... not the right. ^.^;

[HughSpectrum]

I also like black outlines, but yea I think your problem here is you have a black outline on the body, but the legs and the top head part dont?
That's what looks strange.

As a user of black outlines myself, I sometimes find myself in a predicament where there's a part of a thing that's so thin (let's say a tail or thin blade) that it's literally one pixel wide.

If I add a black outline, it'll thicken, and look goofy.  So my three solutions are:

1) Just make the whole thing black.  Pretty ugly
2) Leave it outlineless.  Inconsistent style and may blend into some backgrounds.
3) Ew, selout.

So yeah.  Those legs are really thin.  He probably left them outlineless to convey them that way.  Your edit is a pretty good solution by adding some consistency to the whole sprite.

[EkbatDeSebat]

thanx guys!
yeah, I was actually playing around with some highlights on the outline. But Souly's graphics look a lot better than the ones I had
I'll post something soon!

[Atnas]

I disagree with Souly. It's not really consistent with the already established lighting and it is by no means an outline, it's rim lighting.

COUNTEREDIT.


colored outlines, values have been pushed, and broke up the boring geometry. technically, I shouldn't have shrouded the right leg cus the lightsourse is not direct left, but more pulled towards the viewer on the z axis, but it helps the readability.

er, how does it move?

[EkbatDeSebat]

I disagree with Souly. It's not really consistent with the already established lighting and it is by no means an outline, it's rim lighting.

colored outlines, values have been pushed, and broke up the boring geometry. technically, I shouldn't have shrouded the right leg cus the lightsourse is not direct left, but more pulled towards the viewer on the z axis, but it helps the readability.

er, how does it move?

Thanx for your input Atnas!
As for the moving/walking: I'm thinking crab-like. So just left<>right on those 2 spiny legs.

And about the outlines: This is for the same game idea as a previous post of mine (http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=8852.0) in which I also use 1 color for the outlines. So I'd like to keep it as consistent as possibe. But here with the shiny metal I'd like the metal texture to jump out a bit more, somehow, but still keep in line (no pun intended) with the established look.

So... erhm... guess I got some work to do 

[Lendrick]

If you want to go for a shiny look, you may want to add an additional light source and tighten up your highlights a bit.  As it stands, your robots have kind of a dull metal look to them (which is cool, but you might want to consider this anyway).

[EkbatDeSebat]

Hmm... that's pretty neatlooking Lendrick! Much more in the direction I want to go.
Thanx! 

[Souly]

I disagree with Souly. It's not really consistent with the already established lighting and it is by no means an outline, it's rim lighting.

COUNTEREDIT.

Touché  
I just had done a quick edit to maybe try and give him an idea for how to go about it.
Was just a sloppy attempt to break the black outline, an obviously bad attempt at that.
I actually had noticed I didn't even go with the lighting had edited my post...

Lendrick; That's looking awesome.
Just an idea for the legs, I know you may have wanted 1 pixel thin legs, but to be frank they are still sticking out like a sore thumb.  

I see Atnas did a similar thing by adding an outline on the legs.


Just editing Lendrick's edit.. cause well it's shiny.
Though Atnas' legs are way better AA'd, this is just if perhaps you want to spread the black outline.

[st0ven]

i think inserting your sprite into the proper environment in question would really help solve a lot of the heresay issues pretty quickly.

Your metal objects are going to reflect a lot of light within its environment. Shading metal outside of that environment is a bit of an exercise in futility because of metals' inherent properties (assuming that its not a chromed or otherwise painted/treated surface).

I made a little edit throwing the test sprite into a mars like environment to show the difference of what i think it might look like on the surface, using your sprite as a base to edit (i sure hope you dont mind).



now this may not be applicable if by 'mars' you mean like some underground factory in which the lighting is wholly ambiguous based upon whatever lighting is happening in the subterranean structure for example. (great thing about palette graphics is that you can swap its palette depending on its environment so that it can sort of morph to appear that its fitting properly in its environment).

I would also like to second the proposition to widen the legs to at least two pixels as i think that all semblance of form is lost at 1 px width. your shading will look potentially confusing against some background situations otherwise.

hope this is in the slightest helpful.

[EkbatDeSebat]

@stOven: I think you're right! That background really does help me make some choices; thanx! 

And about the legs: I think you guys are right about adding 1 pixel to them. I can already forsee some difficulties right now, so 2 pixels it is!

(just a sidenote: I really really really appreciate your comments & edits! It's helping along so well, I kinda miss this kind of feedback with my regular job. Thanx again!  )

[boyo1991]

kewlio, i like

[EkbatDeSebat]

Ok guys,

here's a little update on the shiny metal: First of, I decided to keep most of the outlines in 1 color, except with the antennas and spiny legs.
I found that a colored outline on the main bodies of the robots made their form less solid. With the antennas and legs it's OK, because it really conveys the feeling that they are much thinner and more fragile than the rest. But I didn't want this same feel of the metal material for the rest. Hence the outline.
The extra higlight (= rimlight?) on the right helps the metal stand out more as being metal, I think.

Then again, I might change my mind tomorrow and go with the highlight version Lendrick proposed. I've been staring at this a bit too long now. It does accentuate the dark outline, so Atnas is probably gonna spank me for that one 

Note: the background by st0ven is just a placeholder environment, so don't worry about that one. I love the colors though!
Note 2: you can also see I'm working on some spaceships in a similar style. Thing is: with the shapes being so very basic and smooth, making a convincing shiny metal surface just with a few colors is a bit tedious for me. The ships have huge dark reflections. I figured: Even though they are in the same screen, actually they're in low orbit, so they should have some dark bands, reflecting space and all. I'm curious what you guys think of that.

So far... C&C is more than welcome!

[Atnas]

so Atnas is probably gonna spank me for that one

o3o

dark outline looks fine in context.

Glad to see the values pushed.

This is coming along nicely.

You may desire to shift the vertical highlight more towards the middle of the groundbots à la stoven.

The current light along the left is not betraying their round nature.

carry on

[Dr D]

On the largest robot/ship, is there a ridge along the spherical portion that we can't see? Because regular spheres shouldn't have highlights on their edges, because.. they have no edges. It's a 2D picture, but when you're trying to fake 3D form, it's necessary to think outside of what you are trying to create. Imagine it from all views, does it make sense?

If there is a ridge there, like there is in the middle, then just ignore that.

Also, there's quite some banding mainly around the highlights and midtones of your robots. (not o much the first/largest one though)

[EkbatDeSebat]

hi Dr D,

yeah, you're right about that highlighted ridge: there isn't anything there. It's just smooth, so I guess I'll need to fix that.


And I'm also going to adjust the second highlights on the small robots. That should take care of the banding as well Thanx!

[Ddawg]

I really like the biggest ship. But the ship on the right's wings look a little weird. Consider fixing that up.
Also I noticed; All the robots 'Eyes' are all on the right. That looks weird, too. Move them each around a little bit.

[EkbatDeSebat]

Ok, small update: colors have been shifted slightly, so they fit better in the martian environment.
I've mostly been fiddeling with the secondary highlight, trying to get it right.
Batch 1 is basically the same as my previous update, but with a more subtle highlight on the robots' bellies, with the light source set a bit lower to the ground.
In batches 2 and 3 this highlight has been shifted more towards the viewer, but I couldn't really decide on it's size. I think in batch 2 the vertical stripe of the highlight breaks up the geometry of the robots' bellies a bit. Maybe a bit too much.
So I made batch 3.

What do you think?

[Ddawg]

Seems alot better to me!
I know I'll sound dumb saying this, but I like batch 2 better.
You didn't do anything about the eyes, though. (But, I know you haven't had time)

[Pawige]

Nice improvement so far. I would definitely stick with batch 1. Also I would really suggest you blend the highlight in a bit more, make the lightest two or three shades more reddish-orange. Keep the saturation high on those highlights and make the color very close to the background.

[D~Dawg]

Also I noticed; All the robots 'Eyes' are all on the right. That looks weird, too. Move them each around a little bit.

Yeah, he's right.

*newest post*: Also, Pawige is right. And are you sure you don't want to get rid of those outlines?