Dead Beat

[Masna]

Hey guys!  I haven't posted here in a while, and regrettably abandoned my previous pixel art thread.  But now I'm back, and could use some critique on a mock up for a game I'm working on.

In it I'm hoping to touch upon some interesting new and innovative puzzles using some nifty game mechanics.    But for now, let's focus on the tiles, as the main character is just a placeholder.

EDIT: Also note, the actual game will be x2.

[Dusty]

I think the contrast in the X design makes this very complicated and busy to look at. When I first saw it I thought it was a tileset rather than a mock-up because so much was going on.

[hsn2555]

awesome, i agree with dusty about the distracting,yet i really luv how interesting this mockup looks.

[Masna]

Hey guys, I'm back. Sorry for abandoning this thread for a while, and thanks for the replies, but I've had a lot on my plate with school finals and everything. Anyway, I did a big redesign, and am now using a limited gameboy palette.

Also, now that I have a little tech demo working, I could really use some more crits.

[miscdude]

it looks to me as if the boxes with shading on them--from the upper boxes--are too deeply shaded. it portrays depth to the point where if I were playing the game I would probably think they could be moved past, because they would have to be much deeper than the other boxes to have those shadows make sense.



I also agree with the comment on the contrast of the X formations on some of the boxes. the dark area around them suggests a very deep space. Although, that may be what youre going for, seeing as the cross-formation box has a similar concept...

[Lazycow]

Anyway, I did a big redesign, and am now using a limited gameboy palette.

Is this color limited version your way to go now?  I hope you are going to change your mind. (I really like the style of the mockup in your first post) Voting for colors!!

[ndchristie]

In general, the functional edge of an object should attract more attention than the surface.  right now the faces of the boxes demand a huge amount of attention, but the actual playing field is ambiguous.

Gameboy colors are going to further frustrate your attempts to rectify and i'm not sure what they bring your project other than a false/forced sense of nostalgia.  If you like the idea of lower color counts, cool, more monochromatic, cool, more green, maybe, but why make a real project based around specs that aren't lending you anything?  that sort of thing is best saved for mockups and exercises and other smaller investments.

[Mathias]

yeah, why the GB pal? New version is lackluster in comparison. ndc's reasoning above is good, I second it.

as for the wooden crate tiles. they're charming, nice and simple. but I hope they're only the beginning of a diverse group of tilesets, the crates will get old quickly. eager to see this go somewhere . . . rock on

[Masna]

Ey' guys.  Here's another update on the tiles-


I'm going with color this time, and am starting to work on some much more organic tiles as well (as you can see from the rocks and weeds).  I also made the insides of the boxes much less saturated.

[ndchristie]

Looks great!  I like the tacky spikes .

can I walk on those darker brown boxes?  I have no idea. you could say that the player will learn quickly, but at the same time they shouldn't need to learn or guess what's a platform and what isn't.  definition and priority of the play-field is a must for a game built on platforms.

[Masna]

Thanks, Christie!  Yeah, they're actually just objects I'm going to use to spruce up the background.
Actually, Cave Story (and I'm sure you sick of hearing this) did a similar thing, and it did seem to work out alright.

[TomF]

Well Cave Story backgrounds are very distinguishable from foreground. I think the main problem here is that they're exactly the same size as the foreground boxes, might want to re-scale them.

[Masna]

Hey guys!  Thanks for all the replies.

Here are some more mock-ups, this time using the new tiles.

Tom: Seeing as I'm going for tiling and re-usability, I don't think scaling is really an option.

Right now the rock cut-offs looks pretty unnatural, but I'm trying to find a way to fix that while being able to use it in-game in a tiled environment.  Also, the cave entrance tile looks pretty terrible right now.  But once I get back to my computer with photoshop, I'll try and fix that.

[Jad]

I think the top screenshot does a very good job of distinguishing what tiles are walkable and which ones you go through, so good work with that!

I feel it's fun that cave story-looking things are 'in' now! In a good way. A while ago street fighter and king of fighter sprites were in the 'IN' (and seikendensetsugrass) and now it's all about the grotto tales and flat shading plus huge | ___ | -faces. I love it.

[Argyle]

The boxes in the background look really off-balance to me.  Literally, that is.  The hypothetical 3D space they occupy to me looks as if the crates would just topple over because of how you chose to shade the stacks.  Here's a REALLY hard to read image trying to convey what I mean:



Mainly what I'm trying to convey is the darker boxes in the background.  The way the bottom row of the two-box-high smaller box stack in the background has a shadow cast upon it from the boxes on top of it suggests to me that they are stacked in an upside-down stairway shape on the Z axis.  Since there is nothing here to suggest that the crates are oblong shaped on the axis that is not visible, it looks to me like they would just fall over.

That is not to say that the rest of the mockup follows the laws of physics since the foreground consists of boxes and tubes that are free-floating in mid-air, but the way the background boxes are shaded there just sticks out like a sore thumb to me.

Hope this makes sense

[Masna]

Jad@ Yeah, I know what you mean.  I guess it's just the really appealing flat-shaded aesthetic.  I tried not to rip off Cave Story too much, but I guess it just has that influence.

Thank you so much for the critique, Argyle!  I really had no intention of following gravity in my designs, but yes, it does stick out a little too much.  I'll definitely take your explanations into consideration when doing the final level designs. 

[Masna]

Sorry for the double post, but here's an attempt at a walk cycle.



My animation certainly isn't the best, so again, any c+c would be helpful.

[Zack]

I just think that the head sways a bit too much.. I'd say just have it go a pixel back and forth, if not any.. However, thats just my opinion. Excellent work so far though

[Masna]

Now that camp is over, I'm coming back to this project.  I made some more tile/characters and planned out a story.  As for the time being, what do guys think?

[Jad]

Cave story created a trend with grass on walls and ceilings, which is cute, but anything that apes after it will come off as a bit lazy and uninspired, just saying

[fortunato]

I think the top screenshot does a very good job of distinguishing what tiles are walkable and which ones you go through, so good work with that!

I feel it's fun that cave story-looking things are 'in' now! In a good way. A while ago street fighter and king of fighter sprites were in the 'IN' (and seikendensetsugrass) and now it's all about the grotto tales and flat shading plus huge | ___ | -faces. I love it.

jad i just would like to say that almost every one of your posts brings a smile to my face, for some reason, haha..
i wanted to comment on the GB palette, even though im a little late haha. i think its cute and i also love the 2x zoom... are you going to have the game be viewed in 2x like that? i would suggest it, looks great
anyway, the gb palette.. i dont really have any particular lengthy explanation why i like the gb palette...  i tend to gravitate towards lots of restrictions for some reason, but maybe you could do a level where he goes inside a game boy, just for me? hahaha but in all seriousness i think using the gameboy palette at some point in the game would be pretty clever/cool.
actual crit time: the boxes under boxes are a little too bright/contrasty for my tastes... they distract a bit too much IMO. ill make an edit:

again this is a bit of personal opinion here... but look at the wood boxes mostly and youll see my edit. i thought your boxes seemed a little too saturated and could use a tad bit less contrast... especially the ones that were under other ones (haha that makes no sense but i think you get what i mean). also i incorporated a bit of hue shifting there to add a bit of interest and also lowered your color count a bit for (as? lol) you had a few colors that were too similar to others and could be eliminated without any problems. im still learning a lot but one thing i do know is that when it comes to game design, you want your character to stand out the MOST in relation to other things (unless of course you have some things you want your players to gravitate towards.. like an important item or something). having a background competing for attention against the players character is completely ridiculous.. basically have what youre making in mind while youre making it... not just the object, but its place in the mix of everything. is it something you want to stand out? is it important? is it part of the background? you seem to have a pretty good idea of this but i think you can improve upon it more by taking more advantage of things like contrast and palette shifting.. i find that, with my limited experience with pixel art, things that have more yellows and reds (i.e. warm colors) tend to stick out more than blues and purples (cold colors) bigtime.
also though this is directed as a crit towards you its mostly that mixing things is something i feel passionate about haha as weird as that sounds.. and game design happens to be something that mixing dynamics have been slowly being lost... lots of game designers (i mean bigtime ones too) are forgetting to make things clear to their players (by way of visual cues), and in my opinion this makes games just tougher and frustrating to play, as things are competing for attention too much... basically the gist of what im saying is dont lose sight of everythings place. if something is meant to be in the background, its important that it stays in the background. if something is meant to be in the foreground and grabbing a players attention, make sure it is. again dont take this as directly insulting or anything though it may seem like that at times haha... you have a great idea of what to do when it comes to that subject already but (though this may be my personal styles butting in here) i feel as though they can definitely be improved. also anyone else reading this take this to heart!!!! dont lose sight of your game's (or art in general for that matter) mix! keep the background objects in their place and let the foreground objects shine!!!
besides that, i love your style and i am looking forward to an incredibly cute/fun game to come from this work. good job!!!

[Halloween_Cloud]

I realized how much the sprite style looks like another version of cave story. not that i dont like it, it's just think that people should find their own style and try to stick to it. I think this project is progressing very well. Good job.