AuthorTopic: Professor walking  (Read 22291 times)

Offline Gil

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Re: Professor walking

Reply #50 on: June 10, 2009, 05:50:13 pm
Considering some of the bizarre advice that has been given over the course of this thread, and since I doubt anyone here would claim to be a master guru of animation, I think robotacon has every right to question and test the advice he is getting. But if something good comes out of all this dialoguing, then it's worth it.

Yeah, that's what I was getting at :). I liked the way this thread was going with meaningful discussion going back and forth. Pixelfish makes it sound like Robotacon doesn't takes critique to heart, which I KNOW he does.

I really hope that's not the only thing anyone noticed from my edit.

Of course not :). Your edit shows a lot of valid criticism. It looks great. What I see from Robotacon's new edit is him struggling to get your points to apply to his character.

Offline Pixelfish

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Re: Professor walking

Reply #51 on: June 10, 2009, 08:17:37 pm
Not trying to attack anyone's work or say that nothing has changed, but it bothers me to see someone argue with critiquers. The work in this thread has improved, without a doubt, obviously robotacon has a desire to move forward with his work, but what I mean to say was that you should not necessarily make the changes advised in all critique, but to take all of it to heart, or at least appreciate the intention, which was to help. Helm and Christie are not perfect or professional necessarily, but they are far more experienced, and I think that shows. His work is definitely good, but I know that no one thinks it is perfect, or really anywhere near that, despite all of the claims about "style." Referring to the problems in your work as your "style" is the ultimate crutch, and will never help you as an artist. I've done it, and I've seen so many pixelartists do the same thing.

I agree, though, at this forum people are constantly throwing around really oddball suggestings, and good suggestions are constantly being shotdown in really oddball manners, and I don't think you should take all of these to heart, but there's no place for a feeling of pride and stubbornness around making big strides, revising one's methods. That's the healthiest thing you can do as an artist is to force yourself to leap forward; your comfort zone will always ruin your work.

Offline ndchristie

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Re: Professor walking

Reply #52 on: June 10, 2009, 10:06:36 pm
I have no grudge against anyone who defends their work respectfully and intelligently, nor with anyone who critiques others' work in likewise fashion, and aside from a few snips that's been true here.  Stubbornness when founded in theory or practice is not a crime, although it can impede some aspects learning.  Long story short though if any of us felt rbtc was not listening or responding to critique, no more would have been offered.

I would not throw out ben's edit simply because it shows a different attitude.  Many of the techniques, particularly circling motion paths and constant tiny movement can be used regardless of what is being shown.  I also think that you can borrow his idea of a second, smaller motion on the head on the smoother step.  In yours, a lot of his pieces also are still moving fairly independently of the bodyparts they are quite rigidly connected to, for instance, the shoulder compared to the neck.  there's a collarbone there that really can't shrink and expand.  This would benefit from a quick reconstruction of the Core, the curve of the spine and shoulder axis and making sure that they remain attached where they need to.  One of the things that watching all of this does is that it demands a large number of very small tweaks that will add life to the character.

Again, nobody would argue to move things that don't have any reason to move.  If a character was lying on her side twirling a finger in her hair, I wouldn't say to rotate the shoulder.  However, if it was just the one finger that was moving, especially if it was changing length, I'd say to consider moving the hand to make up for that movement and I'd also probably think about whether the forearm would have to move back and forth because of the muscles used to rotate the wrist (the issue being that is does force the arm to move several inches but whether or not that's worth showing).  It's about pieces of a machine, the body, that connect :).
« Last Edit: June 11, 2009, 05:41:39 pm by ndchristie »
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Offline Dr D

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Re: Professor walking

Reply #53 on: June 11, 2009, 07:39:05 am
I'd love to make an edit, however I can't seem to find a way to edit the frames.

I'm using GIF Movie Gear Trial, and when I load the GIF, all but the first frame are completely screwed up.



(Is that supposed to happen?)
« Last Edit: June 11, 2009, 07:41:10 am by Dr D »

Offline Helm

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Re: Professor walking

Reply #54 on: June 11, 2009, 11:10:15 am
I would like to say as an observer looking in that you have been very rude to very skilled people who were just trying to help. I am particularly surprised at the persistence of these people in attempting to help you with your work, as I personally would not have bothered. If anyone ever gives you advice on your art you should take it. I've been where you are, I know it's hard, but you are not in a position to be arguing about animation with helm or christie, and your work shows it. Take that with a grain of salt if you like, which you obviously do. I'm sure you are an intelligent person, but you have much to learn, as we all do.

I'd like to say that animation is a lot about patience, and robotacon seems to have spades of it while I notoriously don't. Therefore he's a better animator than me, definitely.

Generally although I found a few posts by robotacon to be a bit rude, I did raise the point with him and he has apologized and we're moving on with constructive critique again, so I don't think we need to dwell on negativity here. It's the case sometimes that you think you'd stand up for someone that's being mistreated and that makes things worse, heh.

Offline ndchristie

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Re: Professor walking

Reply #55 on: June 11, 2009, 05:43:39 pm
Dr. D - in the dropdown menu titled animation, select "unoptimize."

When optimized, each frame is reduced only to the pixels that are different from the frame before it.
A mistake is a mistake.
The same mistake twice is a bad habit.
The same mistake three or more times is a motif.

Offline Gil

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Re: Professor walking

Reply #56 on: June 11, 2009, 08:42:12 pm
=>

Here's the edit. Basically, shifted the legs back one pixel because it seems to fit the posture. Additional edit to the head to smooth out the curve the head is making. I placed it before the drop, but you might try to place it after the drop for extra snap.

The differences are subtle, but I felt the leg one was needed as it seems like the feet are always in front of the body instead of catching the body weight.

Offline robotacon

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Re: Professor walking

Reply #57 on: June 11, 2009, 09:35:13 pm
Thanks Gil, it looks better. I'll move the legs back.

I'm looking now at all the characters in the game and they are not looking good at all.
It's pretty much the feed-back I've gotten from you guys in the past but I haven't really seen it until now.

The thing is I don't want to throw everything out and start again but I will go back to working with silhouettes to make things work.

Offline ndchristie

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Re: Professor walking

Reply #58 on: June 11, 2009, 09:40:50 pm
The thing is I don't want to throw everything out and start again but I will go back to working with silhouettes to make things work.

This sounds like a good plan; get a working silhouette and then repixel based on the work you've done.  saves time, maintains style, moves forward.  :y:
A mistake is a mistake.
The same mistake twice is a bad habit.
The same mistake three or more times is a motif.

Offline PypeBros

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Re: Professor walking

Reply #59 on: June 12, 2009, 08:19:10 am
=>
Though i'm amazed by this level of pixel art animation i'm uncapable to reach right now, i can spot that the hand is moving purely horizontally, which imho makes the move more unnatural and "robotic". Having it moving as an arc would be more realistic.