AuthorTopic: RPG Heads  (Read 3710 times)

Offline Sokota

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RPG Heads

on: June 14, 2009, 09:48:24 am
Okay, so my friend made a piece of music that inspired me to make some heads. I didn't want to use outlines, really, so I started with a basic headshape and this is what turned out. I think they are okay, but any help with 'single pixel shading' or AA would be helpful! Anatomy as well!

   
Head variations

Sokota

Offline bengo

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Re: RPG Heads

Reply #1 on: June 14, 2009, 02:27:10 pm

At this size its going to be very hard to vary unless you use some creativity, you should study up some anatomy on the head as well, make sure to learn alot about the skull.

Offline ndchristie

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Re: RPG Heads

Reply #2 on: June 14, 2009, 03:33:13 pm
Sok - I don't really get what you mean by variations here, or ehat's going on with all the forms.  perhaps you could explain a bit what we're looking at?

ben - i don't think dr manhattan, death, and a recolor are really going to register high for creativity or usability, and you've gone with your bizarre habit of changing (completely) the material presented.  Sure, it's a nice head, but it's not exactly what sokota is doing, at all.  Part of offering good advice is stepping outside your own tastes and desires and trying to meet the artist with insight that is unique and distanced, but at the same time relevant and accessible for the purposes of this piece.  You do this in almost every thread, it's been commented on, and perhaps I am talking to a wall, but I've always found it distracting.

That said, Sok, ben does use a better implementation of value in his example and i would encourage you to look into a similar idea of using wider values to sculpt forms, or post these on the real background so that we can see how they work - against this gray they bleed out and lose all form, but against a dark background, they would hold up fine.
A mistake is a mistake.
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Offline Sokota

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Re: RPG Heads

Reply #3 on: June 14, 2009, 06:54:29 pm
Okay, well here is the dark background the doctor prescribed. I don't have any other sprites or anything to show you. Just working on small heads with AA and stuff, heh. Also, with the forms, the first line has jaw variations (only mere pixels difference), the second line has eyebrow variations. I played with the last head alot, and I got the eyes I want, sorta. I still need to play with colors, but what exactly is value? I know contrast, hue, and stuff, but what exactly is value? (No this does not mean I'm good with hueshifting or colorpicking  :-[). Anyways, here it is again:



I"m going for a cuter look, but still..believable? Like, Fable 2 maybe, or Final Fantasy (3D ones).

Sokota

Edit: I messed with the farthest head even more, with coloring and more facework. I also added hair in the bottom one, but I have no real idea of how to begin to render it to match the face. Any better?



« Last Edit: June 14, 2009, 08:50:15 pm by Sokota »

Offline pokoto

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Re: RPG Heads

Reply #4 on: June 15, 2009, 02:03:07 am
Value is how much black there is in a color. When describing a color, the three important numbers (or concepts) are hue, saturation, and value. The hue is the color. The saturation is how much color. And the value, is how much black is mixed in. So, when you have no value, but a lot of saturation, you will have a very bright and vibrant color. When have a lot of value, but no saturation, you will have black or dark gray. White is achieved with neither value nor saturation. It plays a really important role in shadows, because by maintaining the hue but increasing the value you get a neutral shadow color.

Offline Atnas

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Re: RPG Heads

Reply #5 on: June 16, 2009, 02:35:55 am
Good explanation above, save one tiny miss. Value isn't like saturation where there can be a lot of it or a little. It's more equatable to hue. Saying there's a lot of hue doesn't mean anything, same as when you say there's a lot of value. "I have a lot of feelings." Like, it's not based on percentage. It's not Boolean. Full black or full white carry just as much the same value as a grey: they are values. Value is mainly looked at in the sense of range. Too little difference in value will leave you with no noticeable difference between the shades. You just need to separate the values, no matter where they are on the scale. (of which usually goes 0black to 1white, not 0white to 1black)

Depending on the program you use, you should be able to set up a new view or preview so you can tell what it will look like at 1x. The reason for this is because when you place pixels zoomed in, they take up more area and therefore become more visually dominant. When zoomed out, those pixels might not carry the same effect because they are just single pixels. On the newest image I'd take the first and last of the top row on the little palette if anything. The colors between are too similar. Gradients are lost on the pixel level, it doesn't make much of a difference. Even if it's the time and place for one you need to weigh in: will it be noticable enough to include, will it distract the viewer's eye, won't their eye just fill it in on its own?

Now that you know about value, don't just go adding black to get your shadows. Value isn't the only thing you can use to get varying colors. More important are variations of hue and saturation.

Just a quick note, I see you fade to a darker color along the edges. It isn't such a good practice at this size because all your space is very valuable.

Offline pokoto

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Re: RPG Heads

Reply #6 on: June 16, 2009, 05:21:31 am
Haha, I actually typed a quick edit to clarify just that but decided not to post it. I was just thinking in the Photoshop HSB mode, and melded value with "B." Atnas is totally right. He's also right about doing more than adding black to a color to get shadow. That will give you a neutral shadow, but you can get so much more character, more contrast, more pop, etc. by using a hue shift as well. Like, moving the hue towards blue or purple in a facial shadow is common because it contrasts well with the warm skin tones, and implies night-time really well. That's something your scale could use well: shifting the hue to contrast the skin tone will make the shadows "bigger" without making them literally larger.

Offline bengo

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Re: RPG Heads

Reply #7 on: June 16, 2009, 11:52:58 pm
ben - i don't think dr manhattan, death, and a recolor are really going to register high for creativity or usability, and you've gone with your bizarre habit of changing (completely) the material presented.  Sure, it's a nice head, but it's not exactly what sokota is doing, at all.  Part of offering good advice is stepping outside your own tastes and desires and trying to meet the artist with insight that is unique and distanced, but at the same time relevant and accessible for the purposes of this piece.  You do this in almost every thread, it's been commented on, and perhaps I am talking to a wall, but I've always found it distracting.
I wasn't showing him Dr. Manhattan, a skull and a 'recolor' as proof of creativity, just different ways to show how you COULD add diversity, one of a good ways, especially that this size. The skull was also just me trying to imply how important the basic structure actually is. He was asking for "any help with 'single pixel shading' or AA would be helpful! Anatomy as well!" so I figured I would try and help with this, I hope I accomplished it to some extent.

As for in general, I definitely do see where you are coming from and I've been trying to change this habit, please understand, I'm not intentionally trying to change how it looks completely, just trying to give them something to go off of and (hopefully) help. I have been trying to change this habit, you are not talking to wall, do not worry.

Offline Sokota

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Re: RPG Heads

Reply #8 on: June 18, 2009, 01:39:54 pm
The more I look at the heads the more I realise they have no contrast really. At say, 8x it looks much better DX. So then, I have a question about shading. Say this is a game sprite so I want to have symmetrical shading. Is that okay? Also, thank you for the detailed post Atnas, I hope I totally understand. Been busy lately, maybe I can do something else later. Thanks guys!

Sokota

Oh yeah, another friend of mine said I was packing too much detail into an area too small. Is that true? Some of the stuff I've seen around here contradicts that statement..