AuthorTopic: [WIP] 1950s isometric cars (C+C wanted) (Read 23894 times)

The Mozack · **on:** March 17, 2009, 07:46:44 pm

This here is an "isometric" depiction of a 1956-1959 BMC Austin A95/long boot A105 "Westminster" with aftermarket modifications consisting of a sunroof and boot lid rack. It is a quintessential example of a post-war British family sedan which 1950s design is always a step down from its American counterparts.

Obviously, the lineart is evidently complete, but not refined, and the colours are still poorly managed, with colour count of the car alone already at 16 (it's has a whooping 6 shades of green, 7 black-to-white hues, and three shades of dark red). It lack convincing reflections and shadows (with a light source from the upper left corner of the scene) are not properly rendered.

At this point of time, improving on the reflection is a primary objective, but the car still appears to carry other minor faults that may complicate any later corrections. I like to compile a list of possible problems in this car, so that I can plan out the sequence of adjustments to be done. It certainly can look much better than this.

Earlier progress shots have been posted in Pixel Joint.

----
UPDATE (18-2-10):

Westminster (latest version; 16-7-09):

El Huesudo II · **Reply #1 on:** March 17, 2009, 11:22:11 pm

6 greens? I only count 5. Maybe you can substitute the darkest one to a dark gray.

Other than that, you'd have to point them out for us.

The Mozack · **Reply #2 on:** March 19, 2009, 10:14:11 am

Quote from: El Huesudo II on March 17, 2009, 11:22:11 pm

Other than that, you'd have to point them out for us.

That specific? OK.

Since the most evident problems are being rectified though, I'm not sure where I should start.

The reflection stands out better now, and the colours are in the process of being soften out. The rack was removed based on Pixel Joint comments, and the rear end of the roof was adjusted to present a better curvature. The rims may require improvements, and detailing on the interior and shadows are being worked at now. Also, if I recall, based on the light source, isn't the front windscreens supposed to be have streaks of white or a light shade of colour from the reflection?

Also, took your advice and ditched the darkest green (which turned out with nothing of value lost). Counted 16 colours here: 5 greens, 5 greys, 3 maroons, and one each for orange, black and white.

Terley · **Reply #3 on:** March 19, 2009, 04:37:55 pm

You've got some banding issues here are there, highlighted in red. something more like what ive highlighted in green looks much nicer.

Helm's gone over this many times but there's a lot of detail about it here;
http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=8110.msg92434#msg92434

Oh and made a slight colour edit too that may help, its good to use some hue shifts that change through the shades, pushed the lighter greens closer to a yellowy green, and the darker ones to a more blue richer green. Slight more contrast too wouldn't go amiss.

You're getting there, im not going to do a huge edit of this because really it's just minor things that are holding this back atm, get the shading form down, along with the banding issues, sucessful AAing to polish this off and it'd be pretty sweet.

The Mozack · **Reply #4 on:** March 19, 2009, 06:01:02 pm

Quote from: Terley on March 19, 2009, 04:37:55 pm

...made a slight colour edit too that may help, its good to use some hue shifts that change through the shades, pushed the lighter greens closer to a yellowy green, and the darker ones to a more blue richer green. Slight more contrast too wouldn't go amiss.

Push the hues further apart? Can do. Lollige had suggested similar colour schemes at PJ, so it may be an acceptable after all. But a range of yellow-to-green may be more fitting since the grey hues were already saturated into several sets of cream tones:

Either that, or hues of the cream shades are adjusted in favour of a green-blue spectrum.

Quote from: Terley on March 19, 2009, 04:37:55 pm

You've got some banding issues here are there, highlighted in red. something more like what ive highlighted in green looks much nicer.

Helm's gone over this many times but there's a lot of detail about it here;
http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=8110.msg92434#msg92434

Yeah, Helm's draft "pixel art handbook" (a good read, I may add) had me reexamining the car for faults he pointed out, particularly the banding. Clearly it's overly rampant due to the nature of the subject (tons of lines run parallel), problem is an effective solution to address it entirely isn't going to be easy to find, although I had some success, as you have pointed out with the portion marked in green.

I'll give proper AA a go and see if it works.

The Mozack · **Reply #5 on:** March 21, 2009, 07:28:16 am

The AA is working, somewhat. I haven't started with the front fascia and side window frames, but the lines look sharper now.

Colour schemes for the contrast are currently being examined. Tried a reverse of the green-blue combination for the body by Terley, using green-yellow tones. The lighter tones of green aren't standing out as the one in Terley example does, though, but the reds are also clearer here for some reason.

The Mozack · **Reply #6 on:** March 26, 2009, 05:29:07 pm

Made colour changes and attempted AA on parts where banding is present.

I need pointers on what to do with the area circled in red. It's pretty tough to address it due to colour constraints.

The Mozack · **Reply #7 on:** April 01, 2009, 10:27:46 am

No comments?

EDIT: Currently working on a new front grille, because the reference features a bulging fascia.

Once done, it's on to the bumper and the banding above it.

The Mozack · **Reply #8 on:** April 02, 2009, 06:53:19 pm

The grille and bumpers are done. Made a few more adjustments and assembled the parts. A bit more work is needed before this is done.

The Mozack · **Reply #9 on:** April 03, 2009, 02:59:33 pm

The car as it currently is. As far as I can tell, much of the banding has been addressed, but the lack of comments on unresolved ones means not all of it is eliminated. Also, three shades of red had to be added for the reflection of the front windscreen. This means there are now 19 colours counted.

The rims may be redone next.

If there are still issues here, feel free to point it out.

The Mozack · **Reply #10 on:** April 03, 2009, 06:54:11 pm

Redone the rims and hubcaps. Shadows adjustments are next.

hsn2555 · **Reply #11 on:** April 03, 2009, 07:39:26 pm

well done, keep going

The Mozack · **Reply #12 on:** April 04, 2009, 01:36:58 pm

Safe to say it's nearly done, barring a few more adjustments and a final inspection. After that, it's on to alphas to produce semi-transparent shades.

The Mozack · **Reply #13 on:** April 11, 2009, 07:20:35 pm

Looks ready (EDIT: OK, maybe not). With three more colours for transparency shades, that brings the final colour count to 22.

Might need a bit more practice on cars like this. Probably some other time though.

The Mozack · **Reply #14 on:** April 11, 2009, 07:32:06 pm

Changed the shadow colours (both greys to black) and readjusted the alpha channel.

The Mozack · **Reply #15 on:** December 20, 2009, 07:03:10 pm

In light of recent events, I've decided to create another European car of a similar era, this time a Swedish Saab 93, specifically, an early 1956-1957 model. Because I'm only a few hours in, the car body design is still unfinished. The Westminster is being used as a comparison, although the size of the 93 can be assumed to be slightly smaller but uses the same tire size.

The Mozack · **Reply #16 on:** December 22, 2009, 06:49:30 pm

Finalized body profile. Moved on to shading and body reflection. I would really appreciate some input on these elements in particular. How will they behave when they overlap?

The Mozack · **Reply #17 on:** December 23, 2009, 07:00:47 pm

Minor refinements on body design, major for front bumper (now doing the rear bumper).

And it turns out I'll have to makes smaller wheels after all. Even the one included here is still to wide for the rear wheel well.

Manupix · **Reply #18 on:** December 23, 2009, 08:40:31 pm

You have some inspiring undertakings.

Your version looks more squarish than the actual car:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Saab_93
Maybe it's on purpose, since I see some of that in the Westminster too (no ref checked there though).
It's not the easiest thing to pixel anyway, and shading will help I'm sure.

It's mostly a problem with front and back fenders.

There is also a persp issue with the grille: it looks slightly to the right of the car's front middle.

I still don't know how to link text without the whole url appearing.

Jeremy · **Reply #19 on:** December 24, 2009, 02:03:13 am

Awesome detail

I'm pretty sure that the new wheel isn't in isometric perspective, the top leaning towards us.

The first car's wheels would look awesome with the chrome effect, here's an edit on a possible direction

The AA is also pretty lacking. It's only really a problem on the edges of lots of contrast, like cream and black (i.e on the wheels)

@Manu: [URL*=http://blahblah]words[/URL*] minus the *s

The Mozack · **Reply #20 on:** December 24, 2009, 05:33:07 pm

Quote from: Manupix on December 23, 2009, 08:40:31 pm

You have some inspiring undertakings.

Your version looks more squarish than the actual car:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Saab_93
Maybe it's on purpose, since I see some of that in the Westminster too (no ref checked there though).

It's not the easiest thing to pixel anyway, and shading will help I'm sure.

It's mostly a problem with front and back fenders.

There is also a persp issue with the grille: it looks slightly to the right of the car's front middle.

I'm trying to avoid the problems associated with the first car (such as the reliance on blocky bases) and better illustrate curvatures if possible. Do elaborate on the idea of shading; I'm happy to know.

And the grille's position has been shifted one pixel to the left. Another member in Pixeljoint seems to have the same view.

Quote from: Manupix on December 23, 2009, 08:40:31 pm

I still don't know how to link text without the whole url appearing.

That makes the two of us. The "user-friendly" URL interface isn't incredibly user-friendly after all. Jeremy seems to have pointed it out though.

Quote from: Jeremy on December 24, 2009, 02:03:13 am

Awesome detail

I'm pretty sure that the new wheel isn't in isometric perspective, the top leaning towards us.

The wheel for the second car needs to be completely redone anyway because its size isn't suitable. I'll post the new wheel when it's ready.

Quote from: Jeremy on December 24, 2009, 02:03:13 am

The first car's wheels would look awesome with the chrome effect, here's an edit on a possible direction

The AA is also pretty lacking. It's only really a problem on the edges of lots of contrast, like cream and black (i.e on the wheels)

Duly noted, but I have to point out that only the hubcap is chromed; the outer rim is part of a duller steel rim, so only the hubcaps require better reflections. Of course, If I want to apply AA on the wheels, I'll have to do the same for other edges of the entire car (as the image shows, the AA-ed wheel seems out of place in a generally jagged presentation). The question of whether AA can be used depends on whether I have the time to invest AA-ing the whole thing.

The Mozack · **Reply #21 on:** December 26, 2009, 07:41:43 pm

Progress is slow.

Done a few corrections and adjustments to slightly improve the curved profile of the car. Input on how to improve curvature using shading is still welcomed.

ndchristie · **Reply #22 on:** December 28, 2009, 07:05:48 am

I know this is tough in ISO, and these are coming out great so far, but do you recon you could pull things in just slightly more from the cubes? Particularly the Saab could use just couple pixels more taper in the front end.

The Mozack · **Reply #23 on:** December 28, 2009, 07:42:36 pm

Quote from: ndchristie on December 28, 2009, 07:05:48 am

I know this is tough in ISO, and these are coming out great so far, but do you recon you could pull things in just slightly more from the cubes? Particularly the Saab could use just couple pixels more taper in the front end.

I see where you are on this. And yeah, there are a few more places that need more smoothing, seeing the car actually tapers a little from the back to the front of the engine compartment, which led me to consider thinning out the fascia by another two pixels (which should improve its semblance to references).

In the meantime, a new wheel is done (after several trial and errors), although I'm still doubtful about the rings that form the rims fitting properly to the tires. Should resume work on them after the front fascia is adjusted.

Manupix · **Reply #24 on:** December 28, 2009, 09:51:39 pm

I think you can go further into the rounder looks, compared with those refs you posted on PJ. I'm sure this must be incredibly difficult to get right in iso.

The right fender (cars') disappears completely in the 'almost-iso' photograph. The bumper is more curved. The back is much more plunging (in the side view), which is a distinctive feature of Saabs.
The windshield corners are more rounded too.

Quote from: The Mozack on December 26, 2009, 07:41:43 pm

Input on how to improve curvature using shading is still welcomed.

To be honest I didn't have very specific ideas about that!

Looking harder, I can see at least one point: those lines (shades and reflections) you have on the side are very straight. On the 'iso' photo they help a lot to define the softer volumes. Same thing tor that dark shade on the left (cars') side of the roof, it's too close to the side and gives a feeling of a flatter roof than it is.

The Mozack · **Reply #25 on:** December 29, 2009, 07:07:38 pm

Quote from: Manupix on December 28, 2009, 09:51:39 pm

I think you can go further into the rounder looks, compared with those refs you posted on PJ. I'm sure this must be incredibly difficult to get right in iso.

The right fender (cars') disappears completely in the 'almost-iso' photograph. The bumper is more curved. The back is much more plunging (in the side view), which is a distinctive feature of Saabs.
The windshield corners are more rounded too.

Partially done. Also slimmed the fascia by two pixels (which should enhance the front bumper curve), and increased the length of the car to accommodate adjustments. Hadn't started work on the rear bumper yet.

The wheels, of course, are still unfinished.

Quote from: Manupix on December 28, 2009, 09:51:39 pm

To be honest I didn't have very specific ideas about that!
Looking harder, I can see at least one point: those lines (shades and reflections) you have on the side are very straight. On the 'iso' photo they help a lot to define the softer volumes. Same thing tor that dark shade on the left (cars') side of the roof, it's too close to the side and gives a feeling of a flatter roof than it is.

This will be done during further detailing.

The Mozack · **Reply #26 on:** January 23, 2010, 06:51:56 pm

Made further adjustments on headlights (moved back on pixel).

Also drafted the interior, based on a very scant number of interior shots from later model 93s. Looks like this will need some recolouring for a better transparency effect.

And the rims look flat. Definitely need to adjust that too.

The Mozack · **Reply #27 on:** January 25, 2010, 06:54:45 am

Minor adjustments to narrow down the front fascia and improve the appearance of the rims and hub caps.

The Mozack · **Reply #28 on:** January 25, 2010, 07:57:56 pm

Major amendment to narrow width down by 2-3 pixels, which should emphasise the curvatures along of the length of the car better. Hopefully this will be the last major structural modifications. Finally moving on to detailing.

The Mozack · **Reply #29 on:** January 27, 2010, 12:03:08 pm

Pretty sure the car looks much better than a month back. It certainly have that curvy appearance, although I still can't help wondering if I missed something.

Anyway, the interior has been worked with. Also worked a bit on detailing and reflections, although I might be hitting a snag with colors for interiors against one of three reflected windows.

EDIT:

Gave the car a bright red body color. Retained three shades of blue for the license plate and Saab marque over the radiator grille.

The Mozack · **Reply #30 on:** January 27, 2010, 03:25:31 pm

Looks close to completion. Anything else I have to do before I start work on transparency?

The Mozack · **Reply #31 on:** January 27, 2010, 08:08:56 pm

Transparency test.

Batzy · **Reply #32 on:** January 27, 2010, 08:47:14 pm

Quote from: Jeremy on December 24, 2009, 02:03:13 am

Quote from: The Mozack on January 27, 2010, 08:08:56 pm

The shadows seem to be a lot lighter when comparing first car and the second $:-\$

Fantastic work with both cars KEEP IT UP !!!

The Mozack · **Reply #33 on:** January 29, 2010, 06:56:08 pm

Quote from: Batlorder on January 27, 2010, 08:47:14 pm

The shadows seem to be a lot lighter when comparing first car and the second $:-\$

Been working on it. But the shadow in the first car is by no means perfect, since it still looks unusual against saturated backgrounds. The final shadow should be similar.

For this car, the layer mask and shadow had to be tweaked multiple times before I got it right. Among others, darker base colors had to be used for the two tones for the shadows.

Figures it's enough with this one. It should be good to go.

Jad · **Reply #34 on:** February 01, 2010, 01:23:37 pm

WUAAARGH

the top line of highlights that hug the outline but is broken up * __ * it's noise and banding at the same time, anti-aa. This piece is way too good to have those kinds of shenanigans going on, they hurt, on the pixel level.

Unify your pixel clusters, give them coherent shape, rather simplify than complicate things (and I can see you're quite familiar with this concept too)

Actually construction and basic shading are obviously your strongest points, and basic anti-alias seems to be something you should improve.

So either get better at that AA or ditch it altogether, it'll make your pieces happy!

The Mozack · **Reply #35 on:** February 05, 2010, 08:24:40 pm

Oh noes, it has come back to haunt me!

But seriously, it's C+C long overdue. Very.

The Mozack · **Reply #36 on:** February 06, 2010, 04:24:38 pm

OK.

Added a darker light red shading for facilitate fix. The roof highlight has been (partially) thickened and the outline on the upper left half is given a lighter colour, but that leaves the issue of the highlight for the right hand fender because I'll lose the double bulge profile if the highlight there is any wider. I can do without the highlight altogether if the problem isn't resolvable. Made other modifications to eliminate any unnoticed semblances of banding or unneeded buffering.

More input is very much needed.

The Mozack · **Reply #37 on:** February 18, 2010, 01:20:01 pm

Additional amendments. Gave the upper right outline a lighter shade of red.

Manupix · **Reply #38 on:** February 19, 2010, 02:30:10 am

I guess you can take it further: make the upper outline lighter, same as this linear reflection you have along it.
That's how light would work on a real car I think.

And I agree you could give a good AA pass to the whole picture. After all this time and effort you gave it, it deserves it!
(I see you've started it in many places, but lots of transitions remain that need it too)

The Mozack · **Reply #39 on:** March 06, 2010, 07:10:59 pm

Changes made as suggested. Made other fixes on banding.

7321551 · **Reply #40 on:** March 08, 2010, 10:22:39 am

There's not really anything wrong with how you've AA-d this, but it's sort-of an inescapable property of a 1px-thin line that if you AA it, it will look dotty. So I suggest thickening them to roughly 2px-thickness.

The Mozack · **Reply #41 on:** March 10, 2010, 03:23:20 pm

Quote from: 7321551 on March 08, 2010, 10:22:39 am

There's not really anything wrong with how you've AA-d this, but it's sort-of an inescapable property of a 1px-thin line that if you AA it, it will look dotty. So I suggest thickening them to roughly 2px-thickness.

Looks like banding is applied on the upper layer. I have a hard time determining whether or not it's permitted in an isometric work.

The Mozack · **Reply #42 on:** March 10, 2010, 05:02:21 pm

In the meantime, the side trims have been soften to iron out the apparent jaggedness of the lines (image animated). I can still thicken the lines, but it won't be in accordance to the car's design. The trim along the cavity between the hood and the fender is an exception, given it's slightly sunken and will feature characteristics of metalwork curved towards and away from the viewpoint.

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AuthorTopic: [WIP] 1950s isometric cars (C+C wanted) (Read 23894 times)