AuthorTopic: [WIP] Moonlit Apocalypse  (Read 18432 times)

Offline Dex

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[WIP] Moonlit Apocalypse

on: March 10, 2009, 03:04:03 am
Hey Pixelation. I've been working on this on and off between soccer practice, getting the flu, and working on english papers.  :ouch:

I'm still quite in the WIP stages, so I'd like you guys' advice on this. I was inspired by ptoing and iLKke on this one, mostly.

MOST RECENT:


FIRST:




« Last Edit: August 04, 2009, 08:13:04 pm by Dex »

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: [WIP] Machines on the Moon!

Reply #1 on: March 10, 2009, 04:15:53 am
As I said earlier, the main laser looks too solid.

Offline Malor

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Re: [WIP] Machines on the Moon!

Reply #2 on: March 13, 2009, 07:34:26 pm
hmm your grasp of coloring and shading seem fairly solid, and your choice of color is quite nice. Now, work on form. I see this pattern in all of your work, the shading is wonderful, but your characters and forms seem a little weak. The best thing I can say for that is, do studies from life, and practice practice practice to create your own style with replicates forms found in life in a believable/pleasing way. I would recommend investing in a human anatomy book, and going from there. Knowledge of human anatomy can be quite useful with the anatomy of made-up characters (like some I've seen form you on PJ) as it gives you a feel for how muscles and bones work together in a body.
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I'm not going to pretend this is a small task either; certainly none of us here can claim to have accomplished it.  it's the realm of masters.  still, it's what we all have to try for.

Offline Mathias

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Re: [WIP] Machines on the Moon!

Reply #3 on: March 13, 2009, 09:44:33 pm
Pretty cool, Dex. I see the influence, mainly in the bulky metal shapes.

By default my eyes want to see more of the robot mech thing and don't understand why so little is being shown. For example, think how you'd feel about ilkke's latest pixel, of the huge robot clockwork thing on the tiny planet, if it was cropped down so we could only see half or even just a third of and not the whole thing. It wouldn't feel right.

There's an astronaught dude in bottom let looking very calm, yet in the bg, his people are being violently annihilated. I'm not sure what this peice is trying to say. He should be freaking out, right? Is he flipping us off or is that detail in his suit? Hehe, that must sound dumb, but if it was detail in his suit it's oddly offset to his right, not centered. Also, he's the focal point in my opinion, I think due to him being very light, contrasting everything else. Yet, he's not "the action", but rather just a supporting element. I think it's hurtin' yer composition. Are you trying to put the focus on him.

Surface texture could emulate perspective better by the "chunks" getting smaller faster as the viewpoint diminishes. Right now, they just kinda stop at a certain point. I know, I know, that's the tedious stuff, but it could help a lot. Won't even comment on the distant planet on the horizon, it's too WIP.

Yer on the path to a cool peice. Hope my observations are helpful.

Offline Dex

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Re: [WIP] Machines on the Moon!

Reply #4 on: March 13, 2009, 11:44:25 pm
Hey Mathias, thanks for your comments!

As it being a WIP, I haven't even worked on the displaying the emotion of the first astronaut. I'm probably going to end up making him running, have his mask cracked, or something along those lines. I understand he needs to look different then that, I'm just using what I have as of now as a base, haha.

About only seeing part of the robot- that's what I want to do. I don't know how to say it, but I don't really want to expand the scene to include just more of the bot. There wouldn't be much more to add, and then I'd just have lots of craters and rocks rather than any action. I want to keep the view on the laser, the action, and the astronauts, not the whole bot.

@Malor, I don't really see how studying human anatomy at this point would change this piece. Besides, I've actually been studying it! I've been using astronaut refs, though, but thanks.

@Tuna, restating what you said and not offering any advice on a solution doesn't really help me. :/

Anyways, thanks all!

Offline NaCl

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Re: [WIP] Machines on the Moon!

Reply #5 on: March 13, 2009, 11:58:31 pm
Quote
About only seeing part of the robot- that's what I want to do. I don't know how to say it, but I don't really want to expand the scene to include just more of the bot. There wouldn't be much more to add, and then I'd just have lots of craters and rocks rather than any action. I want to keep the view on the laser, the action, and the astronauts, not the whole bot.

I think it would be better to have the full robot in view. Right now, the eye is following up the laser and leg, and then just hitting a wall. It is jarring and distracting to try and see what something looks like, when there is not enough information present to do so. Besides, just because you have the full robot doesn't mean the focal point won't be on the astronauts getting massacred.


Studying anatomy would help, because the front astronauts shoulders look misaligned with his head. They are not at the same angle as the head. Plus it looks like the tank on his back is way off to the side.

Otherwise, looks good. keep up the good work.

Offline Mathias

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Re: [WIP] Machines on the Moon!

Reply #6 on: March 14, 2009, 02:13:33 am
Quote
Studying anatomy would help, because the front astronauts shoulders look misaligned with his head. They are not at the same angle as the head. Plus it looks like the tank on his back is way off to the side.

I just don't get your guys' stance on human anatomy here. Why the stress on always-no-matter-what-regardless-of-the-style stress on perfect human anatomy? Call up Disney and rant at the animators for creating disproportioned cartoon characters. Tell Warner Bros. you're going to boycott Looney Tunes for the "bad" anatomy. Pixel art is a cartoon-like medium. The characters follow suit. What am I missing here? Is it just my disdain for following limiting rules and restrictions in art? I feel this issue has no solid conlusion, but rather being more of a subjective thing the artist should address per peice. Attempting correct human form and failing is one thing, being held to perfect human anatomical standards all the time is silly to me. I'm if way off base, please straighten me out.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2009, 04:21:11 am by Mathias »

Offline NaCl

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Re: [WIP] Machines on the Moon!

Reply #7 on: March 14, 2009, 02:35:28 am
i think you misaligned your quote tags. right now it looks like I was saying that.

Anyway, I feel you are off base, or at least misunderstanding the suggestion with anatomy. I don't think anyone is suggesting that all human figures should be hyper realistic, and of actual human proportions. I was suggesting that he look more into constructing the figure correctly, and figure out what shoulders look like at the angle, and where the head and neck lie. Call up Disney you say? All of their animations rely heavily on anatomy to be constructed well. Just because they are cartoonish does not mean the animators did not have an excellent understanding of anatomy. Go watch Cinderella and tell me that the animators did not have excellent anatomy knowledge, or that they didn't need it.

You call them limiting rules, but i don't think they are limiting. Anatomy is a tool to be able to express what you want, not a rule. if you intentionally want to skew the anatomy, fine but without an understanding of anatomy then the skewing will just be covering up your lack of knowledge. Also keep in mind anatomy is not the same as proportions, you need to know some anatomy to draw a character in any proportions.

Offline Dex

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Re: [WIP] Machines on the Moon!

Reply #8 on: March 14, 2009, 03:07:05 am
If you must know, the astronaut doesn't even have arms or anything yet. Remember, just a base. ;D

About seeing the whole bot- if I was to draw the whole thing, the canvas would be very large, since it's an eightlegged spider-bot thing. I honestly don't think it causes that much of a distraction. If it's that big of a deal, I can add more, but not the whole thing. If you don't mind, I'm going to fix everything else you guys pointed out rather than that.

Thanks guys. I need to go to bed now. :V
« Last Edit: March 14, 2009, 03:08:52 am by Dex »

Offline Claredeth

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Re: [WIP] Machines on the Moon!

Reply #9 on: March 14, 2009, 03:23:21 am
This had a great start and THATS ABOUT IT.  It seems you didn't plan out how each item would be juxtaposed on the canvas.  Since its a bit too late to start over you really need to work on the depth of this piece seeing how its on the moon, the horizon line isn't exactly a straight line, it has a bit of a curve near the edges and center.  Your horizon line here is completely straight for the most part, the darkness under the machine isn't exactly helping either.  Also, the terrain seems a bit too uniform, maybe altering a few patterns and making some patches bigger with detail may help.

Offline Malor

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Re: [WIP] Machines on the Moon!

Reply #10 on: March 14, 2009, 04:15:10 am
I am not saying this piece would necessarily benefit form human anatomy study, but that is but one aspect of practicing your forms and getting them down, which I think with a little more practice will make your pieces really shine.
Quote from: Adarias
I'm not going to pretend this is a small task either; certainly none of us here can claim to have accomplished it.  it's the realm of masters.  still, it's what we all have to try for.

Offline Emtch

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Re: [WIP] Machines on the Moon!

Reply #11 on: March 14, 2009, 08:24:40 am
I think the composition with only seeing part of the bots is cool. Like in old horror movies.

The focus works good, the lasers leading attention to the robots and astronauts.

I would make the nebula(?) wider and a little brighter, so it covers the optical center of the picture.

Offline Dex

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Re: [WIP] Machines on the Moon!

Reply #12 on: June 07, 2009, 02:17:49 am
Hey. Long time no see. I've been working on a bunch of other stuff, including pixel art, and I've been really busy with soccer and school. So, here's an updated piece after advice from Badassbill and Cure and others. I changed the composition a bit, and so far I'm liking what I've changed. Advice + crits welcome. (Edits too! ;D)



Thanks for viewing. :D

Offline Atnas

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Re: [WIP] Machines on the Moon!

Reply #13 on: June 07, 2009, 02:22:31 am
seeing as to how the lasers are actual light, I don't see why they would be dimmed as they retreat into the distance.

Offline Opacus

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Re: [WIP] Machines on the Moon!

Reply #14 on: June 07, 2009, 09:33:51 am
This is pretty, and it's turning out good. But it has a problem that haunts more of your pieces.
Pixel Technically it's greatly done, and there's heaps of detail. But there are alot of structural, form and perspective issues.
One of the main flaws here are the legs of the alien machines. They seem to be connected in such a way that it would make it impossible for them to walk.
There are no joints in between the pieces. Which makes it look rather akward. The perspective of the legs is also very strange.

Another problem is the lasers. They look more like a red plant, rather then a high energy beam. You need to somehow make it clear that these things are indeed what you want them to be.
In my edit, I used a 20% opacity brush to show a glow. Of course you don't have that luxury in the pixel art itsself, but I urge you to try something similair.
The spirals around the lasers are also too random. You seem to kind of have made a combination between static discharge and a spiral, which turns into some random mess.
I think that a more correct looking spiral can help make this move more. Also, a more impressive, more powerful looking impact can probably help make this look more realistic.

Here's a quick overpaint of a few things:

Offline Dex

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Re: [WIP] Machines on the Moon!

Reply #15 on: June 08, 2009, 02:37:48 am
Thanks a lot you two, this is why I love pixelation- detailed responses, in-depth things to ponder, etc etc.

Here's a quick update, haven't had much pixel time today.



I'll work on the rest later, but hopefully some of this is what you had in mind. ;D

Offline Ryumaru

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Re: [WIP] Machines on the Moon!

Reply #16 on: June 08, 2009, 03:02:34 am
Most definitely a step up, but the lasers will keep on looking like solid noodles puncturing the ground until they look like lights. boost the brightness and saturation on both of them, and I'd say to make the reflective light on the machines more intense.
That aside I think this is going to be a really nice piece :]

Offline 1up

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Re: [WIP] Machines on the Moon!

Reply #17 on: June 08, 2009, 04:03:15 am
aside from what's been mentioned

you know what would be great

if you tried a piece that didn't have a horizontal horizon
add some angle to it next time
or this time

Offline Dex

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Re: [WIP] Machines on the Moon!

Reply #18 on: June 16, 2009, 05:46:54 pm
Hey, thanks for the feedback, guys! 1up, as I told you on MSN, I'll play with that sooner or later. For now, I'm sticking to how the horizon is on this one, but thanks :D

And thanks, Ryumaru for your insight. If you wouldn't mind, could you go into a bit more detail about the lasers? I raised the brightness and it didn't change much, so I left it. I'm most likely doing some wrong, so that's why I'm asking of your assistance, haha. Thanks!



I've worked on the ground, the lasers, and the machines a bit.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2009, 05:56:11 pm by Dex »

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: [WIP] Machines on the Moon!

Reply #19 on: June 16, 2009, 06:35:35 pm
I really agree with 1up on this piece. Its one of your most dynamic pieces and the flat horizon downplays that a lot.

Offline Claredeth

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Re: [WIP] Machines on the Moon!

Reply #20 on: June 18, 2009, 04:34:17 pm
The hell?  Did you not want to JUXTAPOSE  your objects or did you just randomly add them to the piece?  It started out so good Dex my man, but It pains me to see this no, it lacks control and makes little sense to me, why is the explosion in the back about the same size as the one closest to us, is it that big?  It's made of circles, haha I wont even mention that.

Ah theres too much to mention, just try and look over your details, they need work, your shading is okay.

Offline Dex

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Re: [WIP] Machines on the Moon!

Reply #21 on: June 18, 2009, 05:16:54 pm
Well, for one, the shot from the UFO is more powerful than the one in the foreground, making it stronger and obviously bigger. And you forget, it's supposed to be chaotic, things are supposed to seem frantic, etc.

I have everything pretty much where I want it. And it's made of circles because...it's a WIP? Think before posting maybe? Dang.

And it's funny you say you liked it in the beginning because if you look earlier you said you didn't like it then either, haha. Whatever.

@Tuna, it's the moon, what other horizon would I have? If you have any suggestions, please post :D

Offline Atnas

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Re: [WIP] Machines on the Moon!

Reply #22 on: June 18, 2009, 05:36:15 pm
I think they mean, like, a camera tilt, or even better - because it's a small celestial body - a curve to the horizon. But whatever you do I think it would look better EXAGGERATED. It's a chaotic scene, why have a nice even view of it. Maybe it's an upside down camera on the ground with a crack in the lens that we're seeing from.

Offline Dex

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Re: [WIP] Machines on the Moon!

Reply #23 on: June 18, 2009, 08:46:28 pm
What you are asking of me is to pretty much start the image over, because changing the angle of everything would pretty much mean redrawing it D:

I could definitely add a curve to the landscape but I'm not too keen of changing the image's angle :/

Offline Claredeth

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Re: [WIP] Machines on the Moon!

Reply #24 on: June 19, 2009, 02:14:38 am
Whoa what on earth did I post earlier.
I think at this point Dex, you should make a copy or copies of this picture and try to draw lines on it, the lines would be used on every object to measure how big it is and if it is used as a 3D object.  Like some of the objects seems flat to me, as a whole,

Offline st0ven

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Re: [WIP] Machines on the Moon!

Reply #25 on: June 19, 2009, 06:17:13 am
hmm your grasp of coloring and shading seem fairly solid, and your choice of color is quite nice. Now, work on form....

I look at this piece and these were my initial thoughts on the piece as well. your level of technique and choices of color seem well above competent and gives it a nice aesthetic quality to look at. however there is some serious issues with perspective, form, etc, most notably present in the mechanic pieces.

Since this is a WIP, i think that should be the focus of your next 'step' in the piece. round out those UFO shapes to be more perfect or at least more rounded in their ovular shape. The legs of the metal 'walker' objects seem a bit glaring with their perspective inconsistencies, which detracts from all that lovely detail that you have pixelled in them. So as you were tying to point out in your responses to this thread that you dont understand the focus placed on form and anatomy across the board, these things are the fundamental building blocks of your imagery and cannot be ignored if you wish to grow :). (i like the leg to the right that Opacus drew on top, that seems much more consistent, but that leg on the left still looks off).

Ive noted youve been doing some back and forth on the laser images as well. i did a little sample to help maybe give you some alternate ideas. I like your hue shifts from orange to red , but this is usually a better technique to illustrate fire or magma rather than lasers. if thats your intention then ignore this, otherwise ill post a quick sample i put together.



Its of "wip" quality just about as much focus as your image currently stresses in its finality, but note the use of the intense white, and then using more of a saturated glowing hue color that envelopes the brightness which gives the laser its colored effect. (consider this the light saber approach to lasers? lol) it would be neat if your spiral bits around the lazer perhaps had more of a zappy, edgy look to it as well i think it would mesh quite well , make the energy feel more pronounced. (remember those hard edges can signify something fierce or extreme).

looking forward to seeing it finished? (hope you dont stop here with it).

Offline Dex

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Re: [WIP] Machines on the Moon!

Reply #26 on: June 19, 2009, 03:39:58 pm
Many many thanks St0ven! I've missed seeing you around here, and having you post in one of my topics is great!

I understand about the laser, I'll do what you did with the beam- it looks much more like what I'm aiming for.

I'll also keep working on the perspective of the legs, the right one seems more of an easy fix, but if you don't mind, would you care to point out the bigger issues on the left one, as you mentioned? I'm sure you understand, but sometimes an artist can't always see the BIG flaws in their work ;D

But once again, let me thank you! This is the kind of critique I yearn for from pixelation. I'll await a reply and be sure to update.

(And don't worry, I don't plan on stopping :P)

Offline Stratto

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Re: [WIP] Machines on the Moon!

Reply #27 on: June 20, 2009, 03:01:19 am
Looking great, but the left mehcanical leg seems very flat to me, and the astronauts seem very distracting form the whole piece, I would reccomend making the white a little bit darker, although this may be because its still a WIP.
I forsee a great piece  ;D

Offline st0ven

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Re: [WIP] Machines on the Moon!

Reply #28 on: June 20, 2009, 07:28:08 am


So here is a basic interpretation of what i mean. First off the perspective on the legs of all the bots in the foreground are completely confusing (i really dont care to touch on the anatomical topic that earlier posts had mentioned as im not one to comment on stylized anatomy unless it looks truly bad which isnt exactly the case here) So via the greenish lines, i hoped to sort of accentuate some of the differences between the current nearly 'isometric' perspective legs where the top face never seems to come towards the camera, but rather stay on its own flat plane and tries to twist its way downward without the luxury of a third dimension. let those forms bend outward so that they come towards the viewer. It definitely helps to establish these forms BEFORE even thinking about doing any sort of detailed pixel popping, or else you risk the sad reality of having to lose all that nice detail because the basic forms dont quite make sense :( (did i mention that the shading work is really nice? :P )

As for the other UFO forms, really round out those forms and make sure the geometry behind them is clean and symmetrical. theyre looking very WIP'ish as your upper caption would suggest. taking a short amount of time to even these forms out should greatly enhance the composition and strike a more immediate aesthetic chord within the viewer's mind. Shouldnt take more than several minutes to clean those ovular forms up, which is good news!

The orange strokes sort of imply to me how the composition of your piece should logically flow given all thats currently present in the image. it roughly follows this already, but the forms really break the flowing comprehension from element to element. try to keep in mind that flowing organic nature of the work while finishing out its composition for a maximum synergenic impact.

Lastly, the horizon was suggested to be more ovular by other members rather than just being flat, which is indicated by the blue line there. Id say that if this were a side scrolling game mockup, its current level nature would certainly suffice, but i can see a great benefit to the piece by trying to round that horizon a bit. it will echo / reinforce the ovular shapes pronounced by the ufo ships which is a good thing. Even if you decide to keep it flat however, i feel like there is a big issue with how the ground was rendered as a whole. it feels very cobble stone ish in nature, and much like the legs of the mechanical monsters, they seem to suffer a bit from a lack of perspective and form, regardless of how cleanly theyve been rendered. your stone slabs need to be much flatter and more compact as they reach the horizon line. Once again, if its a game mockup on a limited platform maybe this would be more acceptable, but for a study of composition this needs some serious address. Reason being, it is the one unifying element that you have in your composition that ties all the other ground elements together. if that large component doesnt convince the viewer that its accurate then it pretty much shatters the illusion of unification youre trying to achieve.

I can tell with this piece you are having a blast really focusing on rendering beauty into the individual elements, but without those basic forms and rules of perspective, all the beautiful rendering tends to suffer in the confusion to the eye. remember your audience do not need to be artists to be able to distinguish when things feel 'off' or 'wrong', even if they lack the artistic understanding to explain exactly why that is the case.

You mentioned that it would be a real pain to basically 'start over' and while i dont think you need to do that, it could certainly benefit from a lot of formation before detail before you proceed to introduce any further detail, and this might mean redoing a lot of things you currently have rendered. 

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: [WIP] Machines on the Moon!

Reply #29 on: June 20, 2009, 01:50:09 pm
Also, what is the little dude in the front doing? it looks like he's practically waving at the camera. Its like the alien apocalypse, shouldn't he be a bit more involved?

Offline Dex

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Re: [WIP] Machines on the Moon!

Reply #30 on: June 29, 2009, 02:53:35 am


after many critiques from st0ven over AIM (as well as others) i've started to redo the left leg and i changed the angle of the right one and started adding a back leg

i've edited the explosions and lasers too, and worked on the ufos some. i also edited a color to fit better

still far from perfect or finished, that's what you guys are for <3

Offline Stratto

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Re: [WIP] Machines on the Moon!

Reply #31 on: June 29, 2009, 05:26:57 pm
now the left leg looks way too big, make it slimmer, but not too much.
but i dont see what you did with the lasers, you need to add more light from the middle, to acheive that effect.

Offline Beoran

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Re: [WIP] Machines on the Moon!

Reply #32 on: July 01, 2009, 07:33:17 am
It's a bit of a quibble, but I think that something strange is going on with the person in front. That one seems to have a hole in the spacesuit, which should normally cause the astronaut to be pushed over from the air escaping though the hole (also causing him or her to die, by the way).
Kind Regards, Beoran.

Offline Dex

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Re: [WIP] Machines on the Moon!

Reply #33 on: July 01, 2009, 05:44:43 pm
He's already dead. It's supposed to seem as if he got a laser through the back from the machine behind him. The lasers gone out though. Thanks for the comments and critique so far!

Offline Dex

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Re: [WIP] Moonlit Apocalypse

Reply #34 on: August 04, 2009, 08:04:57 pm


here's another update, I'm almost finished, and I'm getting tired of seeing it in my folders :X

I changed the background and changed some other things. c+c is welcomed, a few more updates and I'm closing this one up.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2009, 08:23:19 pm by Dex »

Offline skamocore

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Re: [WIP] Moonlit Apocalypse

Reply #35 on: August 04, 2009, 10:52:16 pm
Lookin' good so far and as has been said earlier, there really is some nice rendering in this image - such as the ground and the rightbot's legs, however I think there are still a number of issues. I know you're nearly finished but:

I think you should consider changing that ultra-saturated burgundy colour in the UFO's explosion; it seems a bit out of place. And please, please consider St0ven's explosion edit :f Currently your UFO explosion looks more like a crazy jellybean pile than an explosion D: Also, I think your explosions should act as a more prominent lightsource in this image, especially the front explosion which looks pretty intense; it definitely seems like it should have more of an effect on the nearby metallic leg.

I think the two men near the UFO's explosion should have less detail/contrast; right now you're showing quite a clear distinction between the outer part of the head cover and the actual visor. But since these guys are so far in the background I think that this kind of sharp detail would actually be more or less lost. 

Your spaceships in the top left seem very front on, making them look as though they are just flat shapes glued onto the sky. Maybe add an extra colour just to give them a little bit more of a feeling of depth and perhaps tilt them a bit.

I'm not really convinced by your stars, they are very evenly spaced; I like the big stars but the smaller ones (1x1/2x2) don't really give the impression of being stars, especially the brightest 2x2 stars which kind of just look like solid squares floating in the sky.

If your front man has indeed been shot with a laser, then I think it would be more convincing if he were lying on the ground or something (?). At the moment he's all like "'Yo, sup guys. I think I accidentally spilt some stuff on my suit". One problem you have here is that he is wearing a suit and therefore you cannot see the expression in his face. If it were possible to see his expression, then it might be easier to convince the viewer that he has just been lazor'd, but unfortunately you don't have that luxury. Also, as I alluded to with my stupid hypothetical quote, his suit looks as though he has splashed some food on it rather than it coming across as being a laser wound. I am not entirely sure how this could be fixed, but maybe make the hole neater; lasers are pretty clean when they cut through things.

Also, you have a random red rectangle in the top right corner.

I look forward to seeing this submitted when it's done :D

PS: Finish off your bridge image next >;3