AuthorTopic: Ramblethread! A brainstorm approaches!  (Read 170816 times)

Offline Helm

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Re: Ramblethread! A brainstorm approaches!

Reply #170 on: August 08, 2012, 08:06:03 am
Yes, exactly like that, though I'd like to see 1bit rendering, not silluette.

Offline Grimsane

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Re: Ramblethread! A brainstorm approaches!

Reply #171 on: August 08, 2012, 03:12:06 pm
more like this?


and I'll start hunting down the relevant images and collate them here for feedback, do you think it should be providing only one rendered example like this? and leave the rest so there is no influence on their approach?

and 16x16 >24x24 >32x32 is probably a great exercise, because to be fair 16x16 it's incredibly difficult and in some cases impossible to get any dicernably readable detail of some subjects in 1bit, but encouraging them to try, then increase their canvas for the attempting to further define the objects. but it definitely has merit trying to fit that detail in, because you push the limits of pixels and cement the boundaries of expression in your mind, and then with the 2 bit you reinforce how those 1 colour cluster boundaries can be overcome with more colours.

and well yeah I just think incrementally increasing resolution would be a really good part of the exercise and certainly not too much to throw at potential participants.

Offline Carnivac

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Re: Ramblethread! A brainstorm approaches!

Reply #172 on: August 08, 2012, 03:42:06 pm
Old style telephones in low colors reminds me of a prop in a 4 color hack n slash exploration platform game I was trying to develop about 6 or 7 years ago. 


Ok it's not 2 color but it is small.  :P  I'll be quite now.  I'm not even quite sure what this thread is about. 
« Last Edit: August 08, 2012, 03:43:48 pm by Carnivac »
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Offline Grimsane

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Re: Ramblethread! A brainstorm approaches!

Reply #173 on: August 08, 2012, 04:59:18 pm
 ;D that looks interesting, and the phones read quite well, not sure about that background purple and it's effect on readability

heh thought this was a good piece to use to explore gameboy style 2bit, I've read quite a few references about sprite and background layers having the possibility for adjusting brightness levels per layer so did it like that too, although it might've only been 2, I made 3 in my experiment. Anyway, here:



Offline Carnivac

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Re: Ramblethread! A brainstorm approaches!

Reply #174 on: August 08, 2012, 05:46:22 pm
I've no problem with the purple but maybe I'm used to it.  Also it's designed for a system where all 27 available colors are roughly equal to all RGB values of 0, 127 and 255 and those 3 of the 4 colors per screen (game area as the status bar could have it's own palette) often changed from screen to screen (flick screen rather than scrolling and the fourth color is always black) to add a bit of variety in atmopshere.  Certainly looks alright on the actual machine I was developing it for anyways and in the correct low resolution.  I kinda miss that project.   There's a full in-game shot of it in my portfolio here on this very site.  :(
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Offline Helm

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Re: Ramblethread! A brainstorm approaches!

Reply #175 on: August 10, 2012, 02:36:00 pm


God, the 1bit version is the most difficult. What part of the reference to change for readability, how to convey volume versus detail using only the same tool. Pixelling is hard. 24x24 seems to be a sweet spot for single item renders. It's a good idea to go from 16x16 and up I think, even if the 16x16 piece doesn't work on its own.

By doing this and comparing it to your version I've realized a few things about your technique that need work. Sorry if it's unwarranted critique. Forget about breaking up the highlight line at this resolution. It conveys sparkliness to some extent, I guess. But at the detriment of everything else. Leave the sparkliness for when you have more colors, I would say.

Yes, this is a good path. If you want, go for it, Grimsane. And thank you for the proactivity.

Offline Grimsane

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Re: Ramblethread! A brainstorm approaches!

Reply #176 on: August 10, 2012, 03:03:25 pm
No, not at all, thanks for saying so I was wondering the same, I think at 32x32 it works, at 24x24 it's questionable, and at 16x16 it's a really bad approach, I think also having a flexible 1bit colour range is hugely beneficial, and I was approaching it in negative space due to the black nature of the phone, I guess that isn't necessarily the best option at lowest resolution, but admittedly it's not something I've really tried, and I didn't spend too long doing them I'm sure with more forethought some things would become apparent, I actually only added that effect to the 16x16 ones at the last moment to make it match the larger icons (in hindsight rather foolish of me) if we were recommending how to approach it, I think doing them rather swiftly and doing a large amount and then going back and analysing the early attempts with a fresh eye and more experience garnered since would be some good advice, if participants spent a long time trying to perfect their first attempts they might burn up motivation before moving on to do the other images or resolutions, so it'd be a decent piece of advice to place in any forewords/activity brief

and I was pondering whether an alpha background/uncounted background tone might be useful even when subtle it helps separate the object from the background and allows readability of negative space like between the receiver and the cradle. while the brightest tone isn't touching the border and it's conceivable to use it as a background fill I think the background tone is something worth mentioning in the brief, it'll open up the rendering possibilities, and as Icons it seems acceptable

Going to search actively now, and probably post a series of thumbnails of the images. Because if the thumbnails read well enough we'll know the image is good for the task

* Here's a start, I can create an IMGUR gallery with the full resolution pictures once I am finished and the consensus in approval of the images if that makes it easier


« Last Edit: August 10, 2012, 10:47:46 pm by Grimsane »

Offline king_bobston

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Re: Ramblethread! A brainstorm approaches!

Reply #177 on: October 04, 2012, 07:29:49 pm
@Grimsane:
Did you make an own thread for this?
If yes, where?
And if not, will you make an own thread?
I want to try it but I don't want to derail the "ramble".  :)

@Helm:
I learned more from this ramble than from many tutorials.
Thank you for your work!

Offline Helm

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Re: Ramblethread! A brainstorm approaches!

Reply #178 on: October 04, 2012, 08:23:06 pm
I'm glad if I've helped.

Offline Helm

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Re: Ramblethread! A brainstorm approaches!

Reply #179 on: July 17, 2013, 08:18:44 pm
Alright, I've been pixelling a lot lately so new thoughts are coming to me. It's refreshing that stuff so elemental as what I'm about to suggest hadn't occurred to me. It means there's a lot more work to do to become better.

So, stop pencilling with a freehand dot. Use the line tool instead.

To qualify this, I am not talking about rough flat concepting, I would suggest freehand for that and a not-single pixel brush. Go from general to specific. But when you start rendering, essentially whenever you go to a single dot pixel, avoid working with the freehand tool, use the line tool (I am assuming the line tool is showing you the preview of the line you're drawing before you let go of the mouse button, a la Pro Motion - I don't think there's any pixel app that doesn't, but it's important so I'm mentioning that too).

Here's why: When you work with the freehand dot you tend to create bad, jagged clusters which you then clean up. That's fine, but I am sensing it puts the mind in a bad place to start with messy shapes and move to cleaner shapes *when rendering* (in concept flats, it's impossible to not have to do this). Make an effort to switch mindsets by switching the tool, and only put down clusters that have good shape when rendering.

The line tool helps in this because you can see a shape in front of you and you can alter it before you let it 'fall down' on the paper. Freehand doesn't do this, you can only undo. Getting caught in an undo-loop is bad for obvious reasons. So try to be mindful when you put down lines, even if they're 2-3 pixel lines. Consider perfect angles, and try to think ahead "how much of this cluster am I going to paint over when I go to a darker/lighter colour?'. In that in-between stage where you're rendering over flats, but not doing final nitpicks and hue shifts and other fancy stuff, try to describe the bulk of the information in the thing you're drawing with that middle shade, so when you paint over with other colors, the cluster guide is right there in the middle and it's a matter of replacement of parts, tapering edges, making an edge softer etc, than it is to add additional clusters that override older clusters. That's when you're left with ugly single pixels and odd jumps in the palette next to each other in unflattering ways.

The line tool helps visualize a good shape before you put it on the paper. It seems like a simple idea, doesn't it?