AuthorTopic: C64 War Hammer  (Read 20902 times)

Offline Mathias

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C64 War Hammer

on: February 25, 2009, 07:58:02 pm


No, not Warhammer scenes re-done in Commodore colors, just a war hammer, sorry. Now that you're thoroughly disappointed, scope out my wide-pixel Commodore 64 war hammer WIP.

This weapon is intended to be wielded by graphic designers, involved in game development projects, to crush and destroy pushy programmers that get in their way.

I'm going for the warm/cold opposite lighting technique. I admire the strange and interest-creating coloring techniques of the more advanced among you, but it doesn't come naturally to me, yet, I'm working on that here.

 -->    -->  
« Last Edit: December 15, 2009, 05:22:17 am by Mathias »

Offline Helm

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Re: C64 War Hammer

Reply #1 on: February 25, 2009, 10:05:53 pm
Well this looks remarkably solid and weighty so far. I really don't have much critique at this point, I'd suggest just finishing the rendering more and then we'll see. The way you use flats for volumes will help a lot later on if you want to do a few discreet dither patterns here and there. Also don't be afraid of tinting little itty bits of the steel grey with the coupling colored shades, that's what they're there for. If your mind goes 'but... a grey hammer with a greenish tint in a corner... why?' supress the rationalism, you're doing art within a very confined 8-bit color schema, make the most of it.

Offline EvilEye

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Re: C64 War Hammer

Reply #2 on: February 25, 2009, 10:33:06 pm
Hey that' nice :y:

Nice job on the metallic reflections so far.

You might have to bring the yellow highlight on the handle in a bit more. It looks thinner then the black shadow and this bothers me for some reason.

Offline ter-o

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Re: C64 War Hammer

Reply #3 on: February 25, 2009, 10:35:32 pm
Solid start! Rendering on the cylindral shapes are really nice. Now extend that rendering to the rest of the piece and this will rock.

Then a bit offtopic:

This weapon is intended to be wielded by graphic designers, involved in game development projects, to crush and destroy pushy programmers that get in their way.

I suppose this was meant to be a joke but still I feel I can't just skip it, since it holds a lesson.

Many artist (I used to do that too, and occasionally still do) often think that programmers are reluctant to artist's ideas and they always say that "this and that can't be done because it's too much code blabla"... it's like they conspire against artists just to prevent them from realising wild ideas. My job as a team lead in a professional game development project has taught me one thing, if nothing else: everyone who is contributing to the project has a right to be heard, respected and treated equally. This includes those pushy programmers too. It's not just management's responsibility to look after the rights of all individuals but everyone on the team should in the (ideal world) to look after eachother's rights and look up to one another. That's how good games are made.

The point being, I think this in an issue worth considering, what are my attitudes towards coders or some other group of individuals who are not so art-driven than I am? Do I sincerely believe that they could present good ideas too and listen to them with respect or are they here only to fulfill every deed I happen to come up with?

I present this to you with a wink, so take it with a grain of salt. :D
[/offtopic]
« Last Edit: February 25, 2009, 10:57:13 pm by ter-o »
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Offline Mathias

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Re: C64 War Hammer

Reply #4 on: March 07, 2009, 05:11:42 am
I increased my efforts in color mixing for this, but still fell short of what I thought I wanted, Helm I appreciate the pointer! Does this revision meet your criteria at all? I need a lot more experience in this.
This anti-binary weapon is meant to appear very important and epic, a one-of-kind, like a weapon dropped by some level 800 dragon in an MMORPG so I decided to resist my default urge to add little nicks and dents and wear and tear, it has to look pristine; no damage or dirt.

-Numerous piddly edits
-Cleaned up rounded reflective metals
-Enlarged yellow handle highlight, decreased vertical black band dividing main and secondary light, which was a good and observative suggestion I thought, thanks Evil.
-Finally decided on something for the main hammer head part; went with a celtic design (major pain to set up!). Even had to slightly reproportion the hammer head to accomodate the stupid thing. I must accumulated about 50 layers just trying to figure out how to lat it out in the space I had - in the end the solution was simple, I was thinking too much.





Haha, ter-o. The hammer really is just kind of a practical joke. I work with two coders who are very "non-artistlike" and the obvious contrast between us is so obvious it's funny. But we can all laugh about it. I agree with you. A game dev team is, and should be, a diverse bunch. The trick is functioning as a unit, despite the personal differences. As for coders arbitrarily brutally aborting our precious brain-children, well I've had to learn over the years that some ideas are simply not worth the expense, that production is key. Development is a compromise between creativity and functionality. it's a tough one! I'm glad you picked up on my sort of concealed rant and brought it to light.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2009, 05:17:49 am by Mathias »

Offline blumunkee

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Re: C64 War Hammer

Reply #5 on: March 08, 2009, 01:24:51 am
Awesome, but...

The Celtic pattern thing is too busy. Too many highlights next to bevels next to reflections next to shadows. Render it more as an exension of the centeral part than as a piece of its own.

Offline EvilEye

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Re: C64 War Hammer

Reply #6 on: March 08, 2009, 02:37:40 am
I have one tiny critique.

The thorns ( don't know else what to call em ) that stick out toward you on the hammer, the top ones. The shadow on them is lighter then the others. I think I know why you did this, but I don't think it's correct. I don't think the shadow would be lighter because it is in a reflection. The light source should still be even over the whole surface.

Besides that I think it's done.

An excellent piece for your portfolio, and I like the celtic pattern :y:
« Last Edit: March 08, 2009, 02:39:48 am by EvilEye »

Offline Mathias

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Re: C64 War Hammer

Reply #7 on: March 08, 2009, 05:24:05 am
Blumonkey, the celtic motif was a battle, if you feel like making a convincing edit I might be swayed, but right now I need to leave it alone. I know where you're comng from though, it's level of complexity is greater than most of the rest of it, this is somewhat out of balance. Hopefully the 2 energy swooshes make it less distracting . . . by being distracting themselves . . . hmmm, I may have focus issues now. I think the celtic patter remaining the focus, which I think still is, to be acceptable

Evileye, again I agree. I changed the shadows of the, lets call them studs, maybe spikes, to be lighter, on a whim, when I added beaming reflections, never really fully thinking it over. But you're right, I made 'em dark again.



-minor edits
-added energy ray thingies (go on easy on my AA, it's wide-pixel C64, painful!)

Offline Dusty

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Re: C64 War Hammer

Reply #8 on: March 08, 2009, 05:32:42 am
Why the mixed resolutions?

Offline Souly

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Re: C64 War Hammer

Reply #9 on: March 08, 2009, 05:38:28 am
I think his resolution is fine in most places some it's a bit iffy but I see his restriction which I believe is doing a 1x2 length pixel.
I don't see any single pixels so I don't see what you mean Dusty.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2009, 05:40:36 am by Souly »

Offline Dusty

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Re: C64 War Hammer

Reply #10 on: March 08, 2009, 05:40:21 am
I think his relsolutin is fine in most places, I think is doing a 1x2 length pixel.
I don't see any single pixels so I don't see what you mean Dusty.
Specifically, all his diagonals are at a resolution twice of the rest of his piece.

Offline Akira

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Re: C64 War Hammer

Reply #11 on: March 08, 2009, 05:42:12 am
he's using doublewides so all his 45 degree angles require two stacked doublewide pixels to achieve the correct angle.
thanks Dogmeat!

Offline Souly

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Re: C64 War Hammer

Reply #12 on: March 08, 2009, 05:42:27 am
His pixel resolution is 1x2 pixels.
Meaning for each pixel you see there is another next to it combining as a single pixel.
Like... - that
So I think he's fine on having thin 1x2 lines since that's the restriction
You just see 2x2, when really that's 2 pixels of a 1x2 resolution.

edit: darn before I could.
(what he said but explained worse by me)
« Last Edit: March 08, 2009, 05:53:27 am by Souly »

Offline tehwexxl0rz

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Re: C64 War Hammer

Reply #13 on: March 08, 2009, 09:02:41 am
It does not seem like you guys understand Dusty's point. Look at the celtic pattern for example. It's made almost completely of 2x2 "pixels," even the AA. This need not be so.

Offline Mathias

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Re: C64 War Hammer

Reply #14 on: March 08, 2009, 02:01:10 pm
It does not seem like you guys understand Dusty's point. Look at the celtic pattern for example. It's made almost completely of 2x2 "pixels," even the AA. This need not be so.

Hey guys, I understand where you're coming from, but please show me an edit proving your claim. "Fix" the celtic pattern, do 45's, etc. You'll understand it's just an inherent problem with C64's multicolor mode. It's quirky to begin with.

Offline Redshrike

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Re: C64 War Hammer

Reply #15 on: March 08, 2009, 06:06:30 pm
First, this is really beautiful.  I'm massively impressed by how... solid it looks.
That said, I think the energy-swooshy things don't quite complement it as they could.  They don't seem to quite read as movement, or an enchantment, or a glow, or even a solar eclipse in the background.  It ends up being a bit distracting with the bright colors and confusing readability.  I dunno if it's just me, but that's how it looks to me.

Offline Dusty

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Re: C64 War Hammer

Reply #16 on: March 08, 2009, 06:41:56 pm
It does not seem like you guys understand Dusty's point. Look at the celtic pattern for example. It's made almost completely of 2x2 "pixels," even the AA. This need not be so.
It was less of a critique and more of a curiosity thing.

Offline Mathias

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Re: C64 War Hammer

Reply #17 on: March 08, 2009, 11:13:30 pm
It does not seem like you guys understand Dusty's point. Look at the celtic pattern for example. It's made almost completely of 2x2 "pixels," even the AA. This need not be so.
It was less of a critique and more of a curiosity thing.

No no, that's a great observation, I'm glad you brought it out. This is why I post here, for the insight. But, it's just one of those things you can't get around, I know it looks a little wonky to us that know pixeling.

And being new to pixel art, I find it wise to operate within strict standards at first, like wide-pixel & C64 palette (the hammer uses 13 of 16 colors). Reminds me of learning to drive on a beat up old '85 F150 standard, once I was able to drive that, i could drive anything.


First, this is really beautiful.  I'm massively impressed by how... solid it looks.
That said, I think the energy-swooshy things don't quite complement it as they could.  They don't seem to quite read as movement, or an enchantment, or a glow, or even a solar eclipse in the background.  It ends up being a bit distracting with the bright colors and confusing readability.  I dunno if it's just me, but that's how it looks to me.

Yeah, they hog a little too much attention, I really tried to not use white to help in this area, but it didn't work. This weapon is part of a series of weapons I'm making that have strict themes, this one is blunt and uses electricty. I considered making the electric energy effects more realistic and less abstract/cartoony but ended with what you see instead. I don't see how one wouldn't read them as some sort of radiating power or energy, but I agree that it could be better.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2009, 09:54:18 pm by Mathias »

Offline Mathias

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Re: C64 War Hammer

Reply #18 on: April 07, 2009, 04:11:47 am
Dev Weapons, first set complete.
___________________________________________________________


Department : Art
Type: Blunt/Crushing
Element Power: Lightning





Level 1 is supposed to be a judge's gavel adapted to a medieval blunt weapon. It's rather basic looking because this project is an experiment in using wide-pixel C64 colors and it was done first.

Second one is new, it's the latest creation, which is why it's C64 color usage is a little more dynamic I guess. Or ridiculous, depending on your taste.

This project accomplished it's purpose pretty well - acclimating me to the C64 palette and wide pixels. Although, since they're just inanimate objects . . . I probably need to expand my horizons before I can say I'm truly learned, but at least I'm getting there.



Please crit, that's why I've posted the set. Like 'em, hate 'em?

Offline Squiggly_P

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Re: C64 War Hammer

Reply #19 on: April 07, 2009, 05:00:52 am
I think the level 1 hammer could use some lighting loving.  The other two have multiple colored lights and the level one looks to just have one source.  Compared to the others it just doesn't look to have the same sort of polish. On it's own it's fine, but if you're gonna use them in the same project I'd at least throw a little of the blue in there somewhere to make it feel like it belongs.  Level three also doesn't feel as "lightningy" as the first two.

Nice designs and everything, tho.

Just a question:  When you pixel these double-wide things, is there an app that treats them as single pixels, or do you pixel them on the 64 itself, or do you fake it?  I imagine it would be hard to emulate a double-wide style with a single-pixel painting app without accidentally having some single pixels in there.  Especially when it's this large an image.

Offline Ai

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Re: C64 War Hammer

Reply #20 on: April 07, 2009, 06:00:43 am
Just a question:  When you pixel these double-wide things, is there an app that treats them as single pixels, or do you pixel them on the 64 itself, or do you fake it?  I imagine it would be hard to emulate a double-wide style with a single-pixel painting app without accidentally having some single pixels in there.  Especially when it's this large an image.
All of the above. That is, all of the above are used by different people..

Some programs (Photoshop, GIMP) support doubled pixels through DPI settings (for me, I set x dpi = 48 y dpi = 96 for widepixels)
Some programs (Grafx2) have direct support for doubled pixels.
I think Ptoing or Helm mentioned using a 1x2 brush in conjunction with grid-snapping in Pro Motion.
I'm pretty sure there are still some people who use the C64 for pixeling.
There are also programs like Timanthes, which IIRC runs on PC and does special checking to make sure the picture conforms to the chosen restrictions.
If you insist on being pessimistic about your own abilities, consider also being pessimistic about the accuracy of that pessimistic judgement.

Offline tehwexxl0rz

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Re: C64 War Hammer

Reply #21 on: April 07, 2009, 06:11:13 am
Level 2 is crazy badass!! Love that green light! Great work! :y:

Level 3 is nicely polished, but compared to Level 2, it's not stylistically over-the-top enough with the lighting. Depending on what you want to use these for, you may or may not want to make some adjustments.

Offline Dr D

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Re: C64 War Hammer

Reply #22 on: April 07, 2009, 06:16:37 am
I agree. Level 2 is pretty awesome. It's my favorite actually. It has a lot more crazy effects, and even lighting on the handle, makes it pop way more than 3, and a whole lot more than 1. 3 is alright, it's just the biggest. If the sizes of 2 and 3 were switched, I feel it'd be more appropriate. :-\

And 1 doesn't look 'finished' like the other two do. It feels pretty flat and bland, it needs at least a bit of pizazz. Or even with no pizazz, make it pop a bit more.

Also, the reflections on the middle part of the metal head on hammer 2 feels more like a bulge than reflections, which is what I'm assuming they are. Pretty great work though. I really do love hammer 2.

Offline Mathias

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Re: C64 War Hammer

Reply #23 on: April 07, 2009, 01:11:15 pm
Just a question:  When you pixel these double-wide things, is there an app that treats them as single pixels, or do you pixel them on the 64 itself, or do you fake it?  I imagine it would be hard to emulate a double-wide style with a single-pixel painting app without accidentally having some single pixels in there.  Especially when it's this large an image.

I use Photoshop, which makes it very simple - View > Anamorphic (2:1) 2   Once you set this, every pixel appears to be 2x1, make a 2x1 pixel brush and you're good to go. Once finished pixeling, just stretch the image 2x horizonatally, make sure to not use smooth anti-aliasing when doing so.

___


Hmm yes, I definitely agree with you guys about them all looking too different, but that's what happens when your skill changes as you work. Level 1 was done first, Level 3 was done second and level 2 was done last. Oddly, I want them to remain indicative of my ability when making them. But if any one of them has defects I do want to fix that. With too much time spent on them by now, I should probably move on to the next set. There are 4 sets total, each with 3 weapons. Coder department is next . . . mwahaha.


Offline Ai

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Re: C64 War Hammer

Reply #24 on: April 07, 2009, 11:13:38 pm
Just a question:  When you pixel these double-wide things, is there an app that treats them as single pixels, or do you pixel them on the 64 itself, or do you fake it?  I imagine it would be hard to emulate a double-wide style with a single-pixel painting app without accidentally having some single pixels in there.  Especially when it's this large an image.

I use Photoshop, which makes it very simple - View > Anamorphic (2:1) 2   Once you set this, every pixel appears to be 2x1, make a 2x1 pixel brush and you're good to go. Once finished pixeling, just stretch the image 2x horizonatally, make sure to not use smooth anti-aliasing when doing so.

Hang on -- If you've set the view to anamorphic, pixels should already appear stretched, so a 2x1 brush ought to result in a 4x1 'double double pixel' in terms of final results. Does Photoshop do some confusing automagic that changes this?

Personally in GIMP I just set dpi = 48x96 and use a 1x1 pixel brush, just like always when pixeling.
If you insist on being pessimistic about your own abilities, consider also being pessimistic about the accuracy of that pessimistic judgement.

Offline Mathias

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Re: C64 War Hammer

Reply #25 on: April 09, 2009, 04:10:39 am
When using anamorphic pixel aspect ratio view, a 2x1 brush can still place just 2 pixels. Photoshop has a display feature called "Pixel Aspect Ratio Correction". When turned on, it "adjusts" brushes back to their normal 1:1 size. So yeah, you could say it's magic and yeah it's sorta confusing. But it works, and I was ecstatic to figure it out when I did. Until then I was using a 5% opacity horrible alternating 2 pixel wide column grid thing on an above layer that sucked.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2009, 05:42:03 am by Mathias »

Offline Mathias

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Re: C64 War Hammer

Reply #26 on: April 23, 2009, 05:41:30 am
Project Complete - http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/42085.htm

Thanks everyone that helped out.

I did these to practice C64 wide-pixel. Does anyone have suggestions on what I may target for the next set? At first, all 4 sets were going to be C64 wide, but now I think I'd like to use different restrictions per set. If there's a style/ restriction set you'd like to see me do, lemme know. Coder weapons are next.

I've already done the first of the 3 coder weapons in C64 wide-pixel. Done after the first GFX weapon - The GFX Gavel. But I'll redo it if I can come up with new restrictions.




CODER WEAPONS NOTES
_________________

slashing sword weapons. jewels/ precious stones details. power element - fire

1) Coders Claymore - generic claymore

2) short sword of ykesha type lookin' thing

3) Binary Sword of Enlightnement
« Last Edit: October 07, 2009, 06:05:00 pm by Mathias »

Offline Redshrike

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Re: C64 War Hammer

Reply #27 on: April 24, 2009, 09:33:17 pm
It doesn't look much like a claymore to me, to be honest.  The blade is too thick, and the handle isn't long enough, and it's lacking the distinctive features of a claymore's crosshilt.  Take a look at these pics: http://www.scottishsword.com/SwordPics/Claymore2-2.jpghttp://www.sidhenadaire.com/images/claymore.jpg

Offline Mathias

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Re: C64 War Hammer

Reply #28 on: April 27, 2009, 02:40:27 pm
True, it's not very faithful to the historically typical claymore sword-type, but my intent is a cartoony imitation of it anyway. Think of it as a chibi claymore. Realistic proportions would've made it too tall for my image size or would've forced me to scale it down too much. Red, throw out a new pixel restriction set for me and I may try it. I like basic/primitive right now.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2009, 03:17:29 am by Mathias »

Offline Batzy

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Re: C64 War Hammer

Reply #29 on: April 27, 2009, 03:14:12 pm
I think that it looks pretty done now, but the handle shadow looks a little off to me. Can you post the palette here plz :)

Offline Mathias

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Re: C64 War Hammer

Reply #30 on: April 27, 2009, 04:02:47 pm
It'll probably be re-pixelled, or I may just re-color it, hmmm. Hadn't even thought to just re-color it. Bat, go here for the palette, scroll down just a bit. It's just the typical Commodore 64 palette.