AuthorTopic: Revamping Hammerman  (Read 50253 times)

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: Revamping Hammerman

Reply #80 on: March 27, 2009, 09:56:36 pm
I'm seriously not trying to. I'll check through the thread again.

Offline Helm

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Re: Revamping Hammerman

Reply #81 on: March 27, 2009, 10:02:02 pm
I think what would be good for you is to

1. Not work on all that stuff in parallel but focus on each one only.
2. Not to post updates every 5 minutes. Put in as much effort as you can before showing it here.
3. Not be afraid to completely trash something that isn't working and starting from the top.

Stuff that has been mentioned many times here, like the totally noodly anatomy of main character or the difficulties with the face you've rolled along with without actually having delt with it. I can understand that you might not see so much what the people critiquing you might be saying, but in order to see then you might need to stop liking your own stuff as much as I suspect you like it.

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: Revamping Hammerman

Reply #82 on: March 27, 2009, 10:20:17 pm
1. Unfortunately I would probably have the same productivity but with month long gaps of doing nothing instead of working on something else. Juggling projects gives me variety and keeps me from getting bored.
2. kk
3. funny you should mention that, is that a step in the right direction?

Offline Indigo

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Re: Revamping Hammerman

Reply #83 on: March 27, 2009, 10:27:35 pm
I dont have time to write a lengthy critique at the moment, but I did make an edit of your run cycle.

yours:


mine:


I didn't have much time to spend on it, and I mostly just moved the existing pieces around.  The point I want to get across is your motion paths.  They're erratic and jolty.  Most likely this is caused from you only relying on the previous and next frame only to determine how you should draw the current one.  In reality, you should keep in mind the frames even *before* and *After* the adjacent ones.  This will give you a nice idea of the curve of motion rather than a straight line of motion.

Bacca man has a great post about keeping motion paths fluid...
http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=2913.msg36415#msg36415
http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=5201.msg62325#msg62325

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: Revamping Hammerman

Reply #84 on: March 27, 2009, 10:35:03 pm
Oh wow, thats exactly how I wanted it to look. I'll get on that then.
Edit: I'll definitely be referring to those posts you linked to for later reference.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2009, 11:05:25 pm by Tuna Unleashed »

Offline Helm

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Re: Revamping Hammerman

Reply #85 on: March 27, 2009, 11:29:22 pm
3. funny you should mention that, is that a step in the right direction?

When you look at it, does it correspond to the construction of a human being to you? Don't look at it as a piece of art, think of it as a 3d wireframe. Does the neck connect anywhere reasonable? What are these lines on the neck, what muscles do they signify? Have you checked photos of people and anatomical charts or are you improvising your scheme? Is a mouth a line or is it made by flabs of skin, muscle and fat? Where is the skull (the actual bony part) in this construction? If you were to draw a skull underneath, would it look ok? Where does the tendon tissue lay on the skull?


this too
here
urp!

Are you measuring the distances between facial characteristics? There are ratios between where a nose is and where a mouth is and where an eye is and so on, are you using any sort of schema for that?

And besides the anatomical level, what are the planes of the face here? What is the construction? Is it flat?

look
more
it never ends

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: Revamping Hammerman

Reply #86 on: March 28, 2009, 12:11:16 am

better? Oh, and I have a couple points.
First of all, this isn't supposed to be 100% anatomically accurate, its supposed to be kind of cartoony. more like a comic book I guess. Second, I have never seen a face anything like the "look" one

Offline Dr D

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Re: Revamping Hammerman

Reply #87 on: March 28, 2009, 12:42:10 am
'It's supposed to be cartoony'

We've all heard it a million times, although you seem to be less rejecting of critique than most who say that. Despite whether or not it's meant to be 'cartoony', you're going to have to learn and follow some basic anatomy rules. Most cartoons have a basis on anatomy, and are simply exaggerations of the anatomy, within reason. I can almost guarantee you that pretty much all professionals have a proper understanding of anatomy and apply it when drawing their cartoons and comics. And even if they didn't, it will still help you in this case. Sorry for ranting, I realize you might have just been throwing it out there.

The 'look' link that helm posted might not be a real face, but it is, like I stated above, an exaggeration of what's real. The forms have all been diminished to flat, angular planes, and is a great of example of such a figure, demonstrating those planes. Planes which a real, human face loosely follows, and is used in the construction of.

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: Revamping Hammerman

Reply #88 on: March 28, 2009, 12:47:48 am
I wasn't saying I was going to ignore anatomy altogether, just that I wouldn't be doing it to the most precise detail, adding lips, having every curve, line muscle, etc...
Edit: Okay, I'm going to work on the old one and try and get it right. I can't replicate the expression or overall feel again.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2009, 01:42:07 am by Tuna Unleashed »

Offline Mathias

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Re: Revamping Hammerman

Reply #89 on: March 28, 2009, 01:52:05 am
Yeah, Doctor D, I love that pic as well posted by helm just now. It seems to be more like what tuna is after, too - angular exaggerated stylized, not photoreal human faces, but rather a comicy illustrative style. But his portrait seems to have just gotten worse, reminding me more of a toothless hillbilly now, like this dude, which you've probably seen before. The face is flat, sucked in, somehwta imploded, doesn't look strong but weak instead, not like I'd want my avatar in a game to look like  -YET-  I love the style of it, the chiseled features, bold edges, bold black lines, very simple and nice.

So then, the degree to which my edit departs from what tuna has come up with so far is almost comical, but I still favor mine over his, I just wish it was not a different style. I know that I could re-style my version to match tuna's, though. But won't unless tuna really feels he wants me to. I know he can manage.



High five helm, that reference was golden. Hope the animation isn't too annoying. Superimposing multiple versions is the best way to show a progression though, so bare with me - next best thing would hve been a user-controlled flash with next/back buttons to toggle through frames.
He looks kinds like No Doubt's bassist, not sure what his ethnicity is after my edit, whereas tuna's seems ethnic neutral to an extent, which is good I think. Slight edit to palette with an added shade for the whites of the eyes. Cleaned up facial features, mainly inflating the face back to a more masculine form, chin and jaw were especially suffering. Rendered light in a more logical way. The hair treatment sux, I like tuna's latest much better. Whole thing very rough and unrefined.

I think tuna's latest portrait implies sadness or disgust, like a scolded child sorta - eyes shut, looking down, eye sockets dark as if to indicate negative emotion. Again the chiselyness is cool. Now, if only you could couple it with anat that doesn't bug me so much. Also, you need to apply this chiselyness to all of it, not just part. Left nostril is bigger than ball of nose. Mouth bugs me, I see what you're doing but it reads as chin defiition, not a frowny mouth. Neck too thick for such a dwarfed head, the lines defining the sternocleidomastoids read as wrinkles or folds in skin like an old man. Ear is much better but catches too much light/is distracting. Overall though, it seems to match the sprite well.
Honestly tuna, despite the sea of crit, only a few things are really needed to fix this.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2009, 01:57:09 am by Mathias »