AuthorTopic: Portrait style dilemma [WIP]  (Read 10871 times)

Offline DarkFalzX

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Portrait style dilemma [WIP]

on: February 05, 2009, 05:08:15 pm
I've been working on my Legend of Iya for a long time now (and the project IS coming along, though slowly), but yesterday I have suddenly looked at my main character's portrait with a fresh eye, and for some reason thought the anime-esque portrait of the player character might no longer be appropriate for the game (though it was a spur of the moment thought).
Please have a look at the old and the new portraits, and please help me decide if I should keep the old one or go with the new non-anime one.

Original anime-ish portrait:

New anime-free attempt:
NEWEST:(older>>>) (older>>>) (older>>>) (older>>>)(OLDEST>>>)
WARNING - Also keep in mind she is supposed to be 12 years old!

Ohh, and the in-game character looks like this:

 
Ohh, and just to give you context - things she fights sometimes look like this:

 



In a world that sometimes looks like this:

Please help me decide...
« Last Edit: February 12, 2009, 04:41:40 pm by DarkFalzX »

Offline Quake

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Re: Portrait style dilemma

Reply #1 on: February 05, 2009, 05:19:01 pm
Well, may i just say your work is wonderful. It's been a great influence in my sprites :]

On topic, i personally like the anime look of it. Although, the eyes make her look a bit sad/defenceless.. I don't suggest making the face more mature, only the eyes.

Also the "more realistic" portait looks much older and i don't think it suits games in this naturee.

Offline Stickman

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Re: Portrait style dilemma

Reply #2 on: February 05, 2009, 05:20:41 pm
I say keep the old one. For some reason, I find the eyes on the new one a little strange, as I don't know where she is supposed to be looking.

Offline DarkFalzX

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Re: Portrait style dilemma

Reply #3 on: February 05, 2009, 05:27:21 pm
Quake: Thank you, I do try: ) The sadness is intentional. She is supposed to be lonely in this alien world. I'll try to make the new portrait younger-looking in a little bit

Stickman: I'll work on the eyes. The current portrait was kind of quick. I just thought I could get rid of the anime-ness.. could it be that in this game it's actually appropriate?: )

Offline Pawige

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Re: Portrait style dilemma

Reply #4 on: February 05, 2009, 05:33:24 pm
I am always in favor of less anime-ness. The problem with the eyes as far as I see it in the new one is that there are some nasty jaggidies that kind of break up the shape and make it confusing. A little AA here and there would probably help a lot. (BTW everything else looks totally awesome!)

Offline Emtch

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Re: Portrait style dilemma

Reply #5 on: February 05, 2009, 06:04:38 pm
Both of them look anime imo. The new one looks great, the old one looks like its face is flat.

Offline DarkFalzX

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Re: Portrait style dilemma [WIP]

Reply #6 on: February 05, 2009, 07:02:01 pm
I have somewhat reworked the non-anime version of the portrait.

I'm still not entirely happy with it, though it is much better than before. She still looks older than she is supposed to.
...Darn - and now the pose is starting to bother me!
I should've never touched this wasp nest: )
Maybe I should just go back to the anime-ish look and call it a day.

Offline Pawige

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Re: Portrait style dilemma [WIP]

Reply #7 on: February 05, 2009, 07:09:54 pm
I like that a lot better, it's definitely getting better!

Offline Stickman

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Re: Portrait style dilemma [WIP]

Reply #8 on: February 05, 2009, 07:18:21 pm
That looks really nice, but as you said she does look older. Just be wary of changing stuff too much as you may have to extend it to the other portraits you have done (if you have other portraits that is....)

Offline Quake

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Re: Portrait style dilemma [WIP]

Reply #9 on: February 05, 2009, 07:18:40 pm
I have to say i agree with you about her looking older than she's meant to be..
I think the problem is, her features (nose bridge etc are too profound, which means they've grown and making her look older..
I've done an edit, made the eyes slighter larger (by one pixel :P) and changed the shading on the nose etc..


Don't know if it looks better, you decide :]

Offline Larwick

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Re: Portrait style dilemma [WIP]

Reply #10 on: February 05, 2009, 07:21:30 pm

Maybe I should just go back to the anime-ish look and call it a day.

Please don't. You have made a massive improvement with the face (she no longer looks like a chipmunk, for example). Why is it bad to notice further mistakes in the piece? These are the next places you should work upon to improve it in general - going back to the old version simply because it's all odd rather than partly odd is silly.

I would personally say it's her clothes that make her look older 'than she is', not her face. By her face, i would say she could be anywhere between 7 and 20 - but the fact she's wearing a jacket and skirt puts her higher in the range.

@Quake: I think you have made her look even older yet more like an animal again.

Offline Jakten

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Re: Portrait style dilemma [WIP]

Reply #11 on: February 05, 2009, 07:32:50 pm

NEW(est):
This look waaay better. I would change her expression a bit though (i assume your going for worried or concerned) because with that expression and her hand on her stomach it read as if she is ill or going to be sick.

Huge improvement though!! These are so breathtakingly amazing! I saw some screenshot you did in 2007 for this and from then to now the improvement is phenomenal.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2009, 07:36:03 pm by Jakten »

Offline DarkFalzX

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Re: Portrait style dilemma [WIP]

Reply #12 on: February 05, 2009, 07:37:35 pm
Sorry Quake - Larwick's right  - I was gonna say she looks semi-Asian now too: )

Larwick: The world she is in is kinda cartoony, so maybe her being a rather featureless anime-ish thing isn't such a bad idea? Additionally, I will try to re-dress/re-pose her, though I do generally like the "S" shape that goes through her now.

Jakten: Yeah - she is supposed to be worried/sad looking. Not sick though - hence I will re-pose her

Offline dekutree64

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Re: Portrait style dilemma

Reply #13 on: February 05, 2009, 07:42:57 pm
WOW. That is amazing. The run cycle is one of the best I've seen, and all the screenshots are gorgeous. I think the red one (top center) is my favorite, but the forests are in close competition.

I kind of prefer the old portrait at the moment, but I think the new one could beat it with a few more tweaks. It doesn't look like the style of the game generally thrives on the anime look, and some people might be put off by it, so a more original style would probably be better (I personally like anime style though).

The new new one is better than the old new one (:P), but the eyes/eyebrows definitely need to be less sad (at least you lost the unibrow look). Also maybe switch back to the old body style. The new one is maybe a little more anatomically correct (old one her rib cage looks rather narrow), but she looks more like an ordinary office lady rather than the ass-kicking teenager type. And the difference in shading around the shoulder makes her arm look farther back, which doesn't seem to fit the personality for whatever reason.

Another thing, is that the skirt looks much tighter in the portrait than in the sprites. And that also makes her look older.

In any case, it's looking great already, so any changes will only be to further perfect :)
I dearly hope to play this game someday. One of the best looking I've seen in a long time. Are you doing the programming yourself too, or do you have a team, or are those just mockups so far?

Offline Dusty

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Re: Portrait style dilemma [WIP]

Reply #14 on: February 05, 2009, 07:46:42 pm
Something is way off about the hair. I think it's the flatness of the darkest shade that is putting me off. Also, it doesn't feel like the hair follows the shape of the head until it goes to the ponytail, and instead is kind of... out there, if you know what I mean.

edit: here is a quick fix of what I'm talking about. I had to add a black shade, though.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2009, 08:04:59 pm by Dusty »

Offline Helm

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Re: Portrait style dilemma [WIP]

Reply #15 on: February 05, 2009, 08:49:24 pm


Intentional face edit. Overlay in your program with your version and flip between the two for consideration.

Offline DarkFalzX

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Re: Portrait style dilemma [WIP]

Reply #16 on: February 05, 2009, 09:09:44 pm
Hey Helm: ) Awesome edit - I love the colors, but unfortunately I'm kinda stuck with the 16 I already have in it, plus - she looks REALLY miserable in yours.
Meanwhile, I was editing her further, and here's what I have:

I'm sure I'll have to keep on going now that I changed her this much: )

Offline Quake

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Re: Portrait style dilemma [WIP]

Reply #17 on: February 05, 2009, 09:35:56 pm
She's pregnant xD

Although you said you wanted to keep the S shaped, i'd suggest changing the stance because she looks like she's got somethin wrong with her belly..
Why do i find a protagonist who is going to kill some aliens very strange to be sad?
I hope this is portrait on some conversations. If i saw her like that all the time i wouldn't get why she's upset.

Offline DarkFalzX

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Re: Portrait style dilemma [WIP]

Reply #18 on: February 05, 2009, 09:42:59 pm
Yeah Quake - I see what you mean about the "pregnant" look-thing. It's a byproduct of shifting stuff around, so now a highlight appears in a weird location. I'll correct this eventually: )
As for the sad look - she is lost far away from home (as far as player is concerned). I might create portraits based on her moods later on, but loneliness is kind of supposed to be an underlying theme of the game. This portrait is only visible when you open the game's menu - not like I'll have her conversing with anything in the game...

Ohh - and I did another edit based on some of Helm's suggestions (mostly the highlights and shadows on her face:
« Last Edit: February 05, 2009, 09:46:45 pm by DarkFalzX »

Offline Jakten

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Re: Portrait style dilemma [WIP]

Reply #19 on: February 06, 2009, 04:59:58 am
I like it. Only problem now is I think her stomach seems really flat or something, maybe adding a bit of shadow on her right side might add some roundness.

Offline NaCl

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Re: Portrait style dilemma [WIP]

Reply #20 on: February 06, 2009, 05:09:02 am
Looks much better then the first anime one! She looks pretty distraught though, and Helm's edit looks like she just spent 5 years in a concentration camp. I do not know her story, but if you are unintentionally making her look so concerned, maybe loosen the eyebrows a bit.

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Portrait style dilemma [WIP]

Reply #21 on: February 06, 2009, 05:17:13 am
Hey man...I have to ask...why does Iya look so utterly depressed? I mean really looks like she's bored her ass off and might be about to jump off a bridge...honestly the old unrealistic face fits the sprite much more because it keeps some of the same kind of...spunk. She seems pretty determined and IDK sort of agressive in the sprites but the portrait kinda go from sweet to utterly depressed...what's up?

Other than that, I'd try to use far less speculars on her dress...it looks like it's coated with plastic...

Mind if I am awfully honest here? I've seen you work on this for years and years and years...and I probably havent seen half of the time you've put into it...why dont you do something small that you can release? commit to a demo level (like legend of princess) by one date and release it!......hell I'd love something with the amount of details in that foxarcher dude, it looks like it'd belong in a smooth StarOceanBlueSphere!
« Last Edit: February 06, 2009, 05:35:29 am by Conceit »

Offline Helm

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Re: Portrait style dilemma [WIP]

Reply #22 on: February 06, 2009, 02:11:03 pm
The expression is in the eyebrow arch. If you want more determination, tilt them clockwise, really.

Offline Joshua

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Re: Portrait style dilemma [WIP]

Reply #23 on: February 06, 2009, 08:01:19 pm


Heres my take on it. I think she may look a bit older than twelve, but I think it reads better. Let me know what you think.

EDIT:

Slight update.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2009, 08:51:09 pm by Joshua »

Offline DarkFalzX

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Re: Portrait style dilemma [WIP]

Reply #24 on: February 06, 2009, 08:51:14 pm
Hey Joshua,
Sorry - this isn't quite the direction I was gonna go. She looks angry and a little man-ish in your edit. The slight tilt of her head (something I've been patting myself on the back for: ) is gone too.

She is a girl who is despite her dangerous situation unreasonably confident of her safety, yet still lonely and lost far away from home.

Offline Shrike

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Re: Portrait style dilemma [WIP]

Reply #25 on: February 06, 2009, 09:01:35 pm
This is good.

But even though you don't like the style in Joshua's edit, you could still learn a thing or two about the execution. Look at the way he shaded the face, especially the highlights.

But, nice work.  The animations kick arse.   ;D

Toodles!
Shrike

Offline DarkFalzX

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Re: Portrait style dilemma [WIP]

Reply #26 on: February 06, 2009, 09:32:17 pm
Shrike:
The highlights in Joshua's edit make the girl look much older - something I've been trying hard to avoid. She is supposed to be a child, and as a general rule - less detailed, rounder face with a weaker chin communicates youthfulness better. Furthermore I am limited to the 15 colors used in the image.

Here is a very slight edit to follow Helm's advice and make her a bit more determined-looking as well as correct her "pregnant"-ish look:


NOTE: though slightly more determined, she is still lonely with a touch of cockiness.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2009, 09:40:38 pm by DarkFalzX »

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Portrait style dilemma [WIP]

Reply #27 on: February 06, 2009, 09:48:36 pm
I always get startled when I'm playing a game...and a portrait pops up that looks nothing like the sprites...it puts me off. I felt you were going in that direction, and the first portrait is closer to the "real deal"


First thing I did was brush on her face something that reasembled the configuration of the pixels in her sprite..then tried to add the right emotion....then took out some stuff I thought made it too busy
« Last Edit: February 06, 2009, 09:53:02 pm by Conceit »

Offline Jad

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Re: Portrait style dilemma [WIP]

Reply #28 on: February 06, 2009, 11:00:24 pm
Conceit:

Wow, she looks SUPER ANGRY there :O

Well anyhow.

I just JADified it and SLOPPYfied it, so I dunno, but I tried to make something of it.

I have no problems with 'anime' at all, I find it a good starting point for cartoonish definition of faces, the simple eye-eye-nose-mouth-ness of it all makes it easy to just build something and go from there.

Anyways.



Same pose as sprite, as per Conceit's idea.

I think she looks kinda distressed in mine, but not overly so, I think that's a feeling you'd like to keep subtle, since she's kicking and punching and exploring and stuff, just implying distress in her eyes or something is enough in my opinion.

Oh well, we all know whenever I make a face edit I just jad-animefy it, so durrrr = A=

Keep on going man!

(edit: and nevermind the white blotch there, that was me and graphics gale's transparency not agreeing completely.
' _ '

Offline big brother

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Re: Portrait style dilemma [WIP]

Reply #29 on: February 06, 2009, 11:28:03 pm

or

I picked at it for a while. She looks older and generic, but more solidly constructed. It was very hard to resist giving her a big fat mustache with curly ends.

Bleh, I'm going back to drawing skulls and butts and barbarians.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2009, 07:12:03 am by big brother »

Offline Dusty

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Re: Portrait style dilemma [WIP]

Reply #30 on: February 07, 2009, 03:30:25 am
I think her attire and pose has a lot to do with her looking older than she is. Right now she looks like some sort of kick-ass sexy lawyer instead of a determined girl. Especially since her pose seems to imply an invisible purse she is carrying.

I also think in all your edits, the lack of... direction in her eyes is having a negative effect on it.

Offline Accident

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Re: Portrait style dilemma [WIP]

Reply #31 on: February 07, 2009, 06:25:25 am
I know you ruled Joshua's edit because of the colours, but his edit was too yummy to pass up--

So here, I deal with childishness. Hopefully, it helps you a bit.
---> --->
« Last Edit: February 07, 2009, 06:27:09 am by Accident »

Offline DarkFalzX

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Re: Portrait style dilemma [WIP]

Reply #32 on: February 07, 2009, 11:27:52 am
This sucks - I was working on an awesome edit that included pointers from almost all of you guys, but... my computer just up and died... Like completely - kaput - motherboard is fried! I'm not as bummed out about losing my (rather pimpin') primary system and having to stay up literally all night pulling the mo-bo and building myself a placeholder system as I am about losing two hours of work - seriously: ) If I'm rambling, it's probably due to me being dead-tired.

Ohh, and Accident - cool edit - but for some reason she now reminds me of this guy: http://www.virginmedia.com/images/redneck.jpg

Offline Accident

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Re: Portrait style dilemma [WIP]

Reply #33 on: February 07, 2009, 05:35:20 pm
...I don't see the resemblance. :D
That made me LOL though-- she should be honoured to remind you of such a hunk. ;D

Offline bighatdino

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Re: Portrait style dilemma [WIP]

Reply #34 on: February 11, 2009, 01:39:48 pm
Why not reduce the nose a tad, then it's kinda a mix of the original style and the more realistic eyes?

Offline DarkFalzX

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Re: Portrait style dilemma [WIP]

Reply #35 on: February 12, 2009, 04:45:22 pm
I think I might be about done with it. Here is my newest edit. Unless there is something terribly wrong with it - I'm going with it:


bighatdino: I like her nose - small-to-non-existent noses make people look freaky: )

Offline Shrike

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Re: Portrait style dilemma [WIP]

Reply #36 on: February 12, 2009, 04:49:56 pm
Well, it's certainly not bad, but a few points from:

The colors are better, I think, in the above; certainly you ought to make the jacket like it is in the above, it gives her more innocence.
Her face as it is now looks sort of contemplatively pissed off, not sad or innocent.  Make the eyebrows arch upwards towards the middle.
Just a few pointers.