Running Sprite

[platnium]

Newest:


I am starting to work on a sprite but first need to have better knowledge on animation, I am experimenting with stickman and making them walk and what not, This is my third try at it.

It will probaly be half the size like this:

Is there any advice for this....

[platnium]

started another.

[Ignacio]

Well... Some critics...

I wouldn' t use a stickman...You can't know which leg is closer to the observer, same with legs... I would use a 5 colour guy... red and dark red for the arms, black for torso and head, blue and dark blue for legs, the closer leg to the observer the brighter... Also, remember that white background is not your friend... When you colour, you' ll think the colours you are using to colour your guy are too dark, and you will use too much contrast (Contrast? I might be pissing off here, I still lack of approppiate terminology) to "fix" that... which would be an error.

Then, you seem to have some problems with anatomy... forearms seem to be too short for me, for example.

Your guy does a horseshoe when does the recoil... soften that a bit... Also, I would never move the torso to left and right in my animations... I mean, I could "move" the shoulders, showing the chest of the character a bit in the contact frame, the back a bit in the other contact frame, but that's moving the torso through an axis that remains quiet... You move the "axis" of the torso. I *think*, (unless a more experienced artist contradicts me) that' s a no-no.

For me, it seems that you "imagined" what a person do when walking, and you made it... Which shows that you have good eye for animation, because you basically nailed the typical poses experts use to make a walkcycle, congratulations, but I would encourage you to research a bit and nail it even more... One reference I like to use is the famous:

[platnium]

Newest one, still looks a bit stiff, but IMO it's looking better.

[Helm]

Do you not notice that the head and spine of the character are flickering about horisontally?

[platnium]

Do you not notice that the head and spine of the character are flickering about horisontally?

Hmm.. yes, I thought that would be the recoil for when it springs down, but I was think that if it didn't move horizontally then it will look as if it is still, also when I export it, it seems to speed up so I need to fix that some how.

[Shrike]

Not sure if this is intentional but the anatomy is really screwed up.  The arms are far too long, and the body should also be shorter, giving more room for the legs.  And don't avoid feet!  They are a very important part of a walk.  You can try messing with Pivot 3 (Google it, download it it's free) for another way to practice walks, but posting here is a great way to get critique.     Keep practicing!

Also, pay attention to arks.  Trace a line through the path of the head and see what it looks like.  Do this with all the limbs.  If it's not a smooth ark, do your best to make it so.

Toodles!
Shirke

[32]

Stickmen like this are bad for animation practice (or any practice, really) because they don't have shoulders or hips, which are important in keeping your balance, when adding shoulders/hips remember that men and women have different proportions and this effects the way people walk, generally men have shoulders as wide as their hips and women have hips wider than their shoulders(which are thinner than mens). What this means really is that men balance with their shoulders (more shoulder swing) and women with their hips (more hip swing). Just keep that in mind when adding the shoulders and hips. Its also good practice to add a rough torso between the shoulders and hips.

[platnium]

Just clean it up a bit... Looks a bit better but when I upload it, it speeds up too much.

[lollige]

Its the hips that should go up and down, and therefore automatically the head goes up and down too.

Why is his body that tall, and are his legs so short? And why are his legs alwayd bend? Try walking like that yourself.
An in my opinion important part of drawing is how the feet are being used. If you draw feets, your animation might get better, or easier to understand what is happening.

You have colored those arms and legs differently, but it makes no sense. You only animated half of the cycle, so there is no right or left arm anyway. Whats the use of having those 2 differently colored, and why not make the full cycle?

I wouldn' t use a stickman...You can't know which leg is closer to the observer, same with legs... I would use a 5 colour guy... red and dark red for the arms, black for torso and head, blue and dark blue for legs, the closer leg to the observer the brighter...

Think before you exactly do what other people say. It might help you someday understanding what people say. As I said earlier, make it YOUR artwork, not ours.

Success

[Stickman]

Hey there,

is it possible for you to paste the sequence of each frame as that would also help for us to see what needs to be fixed.
At the moment, the legs pick up quite high in front and flicker. It would definitely help if the drawing your using has some volume to it, rather than just a stick figure, as it will prove a pain to clean up when adding character to it. There's also a possibility that you would have to re-animate it.

Just saying this to avoid you having to do too much extra work:)

[platnium]

A lot of hours later I now have this, I have made the stick man into a more realistic man about half the size, I think this look alot better, any crits?

[Ignacio]

Yes, animate it! 

[platnium]

Yes, animate it! 

[Conzeit]

holy shit you better fix his axis spot, he's bouncing all over the place! try to make all of his limbs follow more  of a regular path.

[Ignacio]

Yup, that, and... wasn't it supposed to be walking? I think he is running... I mean, if you know he is running, then it' s quite good, but if you think that this sprite is walking, there' s a LOT to criticise 

[Shrike]

As I said, pay attention to arks...   

Also, walking or running?

[platnium]

Less jumpy now.
oh and it is now running, I thought that is this was to be in a game (Which it won't ) then a sprite would be running.

[Shrike]

It's not a run yet; it's a jumpy walk.

The major difference between the two is that in a run, both feet are visibly off the ground in one or two frames.
In a walk, there is always one foot on the ground.

Pixel-Masters/Animation-Masters: correct me if I am wrong.
He's still pretty flinchy; I'm stubborn about my arks.  An edit later to demonstrate what I mean.
Definitely getting better though

Buy the Animators Survival Kit by Richard Williams, it's priceless.  Last summer I just burned through it with a library copy, but I got it for Christmas this year and I learn more from it every time I open it.
Or get it from the Library.

Shrike

[Ignacio]

Platnium, there are some tricks that you must learn to do simply "whatevercycles" easily (These are not general rules, you can complicate the animation as much as you can, but for simple animations, this tricks do well...)

One of the general rules is that the torso and head shape do not change. So, what frames do you want to use, 8? Then, make a head, and a torso in a frame with enough space to fit the legs and the arms. Copy that image 4 times. Leave the first torso untouched. Move the second one pixel down. Leave the third untouched. Raise the 4th one pixel up.

If you do that, you will have a torso in a static axis that moves up and down smoothly. Now attack legs and arms as seen in the reference image.

Now, copy what you have... and change the colour of legs and arms. You got it.

[Ben2theEdge]

Ehmm... I don't recommend doing it the way Ignacio said. I started out doing things this way and formed a lot of bad habits that I had to un-learn later. True this is an easy way to do a run cycle but the result is always going to be stiff and flat-looking, and it's hard to add personality if you always start with a template. If the arms and legs on both sides do the exact same motion you'll have no sense of depth since both his left and right leg will hit the ground on the same spot every time. And your torso *does* move quite a bit when you walk or run, so does your head. The way you are doing it, starting with the fundamental tools of animation and improving your skill, is the best way. Keep working on this one!

His body is moving quite a bit horizontally and there are a few frames where he snaps forward or backwards inexplicably. I would make these issues your primary concern. Shrike's advice is all good, I second it. Especially the part about the Animator's Survival Guide! 

[Ignacio]

Ben is probably right about my tips... I must clarify that atm I am in working in a project that tries to emulate early 90ies adventure games, so, stiff and robotic is ok for what I need...  You just gotta browse a bit in this forums to see that here people does something more dynamic and elaborated. Anyway, as said, if you want to do something "basic" (And, honestly, after seeing the problems you had with the stickman and now with the axis of the running sprite, you might want to try something basic) you can give a try to my advices.

[platnium]

I think I stopped him from jumping around now, just need to clean it up a bit now.
Any tips or crits?

[Shrike]

Ok, not cool.

Both me, Ben and Ignacio gave you loads of critique and you choose to ignore it, then proceeding to ask for critique.

Don't be like that, please.
At least respond and tell us if you're going to ignore all of the help we're giving you.

[Ignacio]

I have been tempted to do a similar reply to the one Shrike did two or three times during the reading of this thread, but I still can think we can end with something good from here... 

Plat, really... I want to enter in your head to visualise the problem, so, try to answer... Why don' t you fix the problems with the axis?

a) You don't  understand what we say about the axis?
b) You do understand, but you don't care?

If answer is "A", then, simply, ask.

What we mean when me mention the "axis" is this: (Again, it' s not perfect, it has a problem in frame 8, but is "good as an example")


Look at Indy' s head. It moves... up, and down. It doesn't move left or right. Your does. Also, notice that the "shape" of the head does not change... Nobody' s head shape changes (Except Kennedy). "Your heads" does.

Look at Indy' s torso... It moves. Sometimes you can see his chest, somethimes the back... Sometimes we see the shirt, sometimes the back side of the jackett... That' s because it's rotating over a vertical axis. It' s like if we lean a bit Indy' s body after nailing him with a long stick that enters from the top of his head and gets out through his annus (eeeek).

But it does not move right or left.

Your sprite does all those things... That gives a "shacking" feeling that is not cool...

Now, if answer is "b", if you understand what we say, but you don't care, then I am off...

[platnium]

I have been tempted to do a similar reply to the one Shrike did two or three times during the reading of this thread, but I still can think we can end with something good from here... 

Plat, really... I want to enter in your head to visualise the problem, so, try to answer... Why don' t you fix the problems with the axis?

a) You don't  understand what we say about the axis?
b) You do understand, but you don't care?

If answer is "A", then, simply, ask.

What we mean when me mention the "axis" is this: (Again, it' s not perfect, it has a problem in frame 8, but is "good as an example")


Look at Indy' s head. It moves... up, and down. It doesn't move left or right. Your does. Also, notice that the "shape" of the head does not change... Nobody' s head shape changes (Except Kennedy). "Your heads" does.

Look at Indy' s torso... It moves. Sometimes you can see his chest, somethimes the back... Sometimes we see the shirt, sometimes the back side of the jackett... That' s because it's rotating over a vertical axis. It' s like if we lean a bit Indy' s body after nailing him with a long stick that enters from the top of his head and gets out through his annus (eeeek).

But it does not move right or left.

Your sprite does all those things... That gives a "shacking" feeling that is not cool...

Now, if answer is "b", if you understand what we say, but you don't care, then I am off...

I saw all the crits, but all I did in my last post was just stopped it from moving from left to right a bit, now fully, since I need to do it again, tomorrow I will be having another read through this thread to then edit the sprite to what is needed, I am sorry if it seemed if I was just ignoring everyone.

[Shrike]

Thank you for apologizing, and next time if you haven't read everything or something like that then just say so and don't just keep silent.
I'll get an edit out for you if I can; but school is being a bitch atm.  Also, thank you Ignacio for that well-explained reply.   
Later
Shrike

[Ignacio]

No probs, Plat.

Also, you might want to see this thread: http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=7876.0

It has a lot of usefull discussions about running cycles.

[platnium]

Old:


New:
edit:
I realized that you can't really see the light blue on a white background so I made it darker, and cleaned a few pixels on the arms.

Edit 2 :
Newest!

Better head, more synced and cleaned up XD

Just gave him a more cartoony head (He is sort of a cartoony style sprite...) and (I think :S) I fixed the axis point, edited frame 5 and 11 so he now has both feet in the air. Question,  when he lands on frame 1,7 and 8 does he need to bend down more, also I think the head seems to be moving a bit stupid up down, I will try and fix it.

[Shrike]

Yay for epic-slow-motion running?

I think speeding this up more would help loads, but ff might be screwing up the playing speed.

It's better, but I'm not feeling his weight yet.
Did you even look at anything we've given you?

Anyway

Make sure he doesn't go down and bend his leg immidiately, that's the down; there's a contact frame before that.
So:
Contact (both feet are touching the ground) Down (Arms at their widest point, one foot on the ground and that same leg is bent, compensating for the newly acquired weight, also the lowest part in the animation) Passing Position (i.e. arms and legs are passing each other)  Up (Highest point) Contact (With opposite leg)

That's the formula for a walk.  I think you should start with walks, easier to do, it's more in control.
Richard Williams put runs nicely;  it went something like "Runs are even more out of control than walks, in a walk we are continually falling and catching ourselves.  The faster we go the more out of balance we are."  This isn't really a quote, I'm mashing up the idea of several chapters into there but you get the idea.

So, my advice:
Work on walks instead, do lots and lots of research

But, that's kind of a shitty thing to say as you've put a lot of work into this already.  So, my critique for what you have here would be:
Make it faster, less perfectly controlled, more crazy, and have the feet in the air even more visibly.
Really, really look at the links you've been given, especially:
http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=7876.0

TONS of good information there.
This isn't a place to dump work.  It's a place to listen for critique, apply it as best as you can and screw things up majorly so you'll learn.  Make mistakes.  Go out of your comfort zone.  Listen to critique.  Screw up, learn and end up like us.  I still suck, and I'm still absorbing all of the things I've learned.

Anyone, let me know if what I've said is either assy or incorrect.  I've have to look up runs in The Animators Survival Kit for you, I know more about walks currently but I'll find some stuff for you.

Later
Shrike

[platnium]

Yay for epic-slow-motion running?

I think speeding this up more would help loads, but ff might be screwing up the playing speed.

It's better, but I'm not feeling his weight yet.
Did you even look at anything we've given you?

Anyway

Make sure he doesn't go down and bend his leg immidiately, that's the down; there's a contact frame before that.
So:
Contact (both feet are touching the ground) Down (Arms at their widest point, one foot on the ground and that same leg is bent, compensating for the newly acquired weight, also the lowest part in the animation) Passing Position (i.e. arms and legs are passing each other)  Up (Highest point) Contact (With opposite leg)

That's the formula for a walk.  I think you should start with walks, easier to do, it's more in control.
Richard Williams put runs nicely;  it went something like "Runs are even more out of control than walks, in a walk we are continually falling and catching ourselves.  The faster we go the more out of balance we are."  This isn't really a quote, I'm mashing up the idea of several chapters into there but you get the idea.

So, my advice:
Work on walks instead, do lots and lots of research

But, that's kind of a shitty thing to say as you've put a lot of work into this already.  So, my critique for what you have here would be:
Make it faster, less perfectly controlled, more crazy, and have the feet in the air even more visibly.
Really, really look at the links you've been given, especially:
http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=7876.0

TONS of good information there.
This isn't a place to dump work.  It's a place to listen for critique, apply it as best as you can and screw things up majorly so you'll learn.  Make mistakes.  Go out of your comfort zone.  Listen to critique.  Screw up, learn and end up like us.  I still suck, and I'm still absorbing all of the things I've learned.

Anyone, let me know if what I've said is either assy or incorrect.  I've have to look up runs in The Animators Survival Kit for you, I know more about walks currently but I'll find some stuff for you.

Later
Shrike

ok, I have had a read through this thread :
http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=7876.0
and a couple of post in this thread and I have re-moddled the arms.... and made it so fram 4 and 10 he is also of the ground, also "tried" to add some re-coil on frames 1 and 7, and just made the colours easier to see, and simply stuff
Thanks for all the help and if I've missed anything just say...

[platnium]

Just a bit more cleaning up, still reading through a few things.

[Dr D]

It seems kind of slow-motion and not exagerrated enough for a run. Although it is now much, much, better than your first few versions.

[Souly]

His arms stop from traveling backwards, should probably give it some more movement.

[platnium]

His arms stop from traveling backwards, should probably give it some more movement.

Arms come back a bit more.
Just need to figure out how to export it faster than it is.
I am sure there is still loads to do, I have read through the whole of this thread again and (I think..) I have (nearly...?) done everything needed(?).

[Jakten]

I think it looks better now that his arm goes back more but it looks strange for it to go back in a straight horizontal line. His arm should bend at his elbow downwards just before coming back forwards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NktBYP-c3wU This video should hopefully explain what I mean though it doesn't need to be this extreme.

[platnium]

Just a bit more updating,made his right arm nearly vertical when it comes back, and just cleaning bit up, I am think about building up the character soon.
 Also the reason why there hasn't been an update in a while is that I kept getting annoyed when ever I had done a load of work with it and came to save it and accidently optimized it and then all the colours ran. 

[Souly]

Don't know why you think a rectangle head is a...

Better head

Your guy doesn't have a neck.
And his head covers his close shoulder.

[platnium]

I thought I'd start again with a cleaner image, I have been reading The Animators Survival Kit. I have read about 30 pages all together, and I have the above with alot of reference from page 192 I think, I can't remember, I am no where near done this one, just showing you what I have so far. Still need to add frames where the "X"s are and add some Re-coil. Also I am going for a cartoony look.