AuthorTopic: A question about 'Selout'  (Read 33589 times)

Offline HughSpectrum

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 283
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: A question about 'Selout'

Reply #10 on: January 31, 2009, 09:15:12 pm
Quote
btw here's another great thread about selout http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=2511.0
Wow.  Excellent thread.  Definitely adding to my favorites for further reference.

I like how it is discovered that selout is actually AA on certain backgrounds.  Instead of calling it selout when it's done poorly, should we just call it bad-AA then?

Offline blumunkee

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 325
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile

Re: A question about 'Selout'

Reply #11 on: January 31, 2009, 09:42:44 pm
*sigh*

Shall I ever find respite from my past transgressions?

I find it unfortunate that all my explanatory images are broken, I wasn't aware that google killed my website.

I think it's about time I created a "Selout debunked" thread, with the hope to finally vindicate myself.

Offline Mike

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 294
  • Karma: +0/-3
    • View Profile
    • Scribble onto the Abyss

Re: A question about 'Selout'

Reply #12 on: January 31, 2009, 10:00:11 pm
So wait...Sel-out(or whatever it is called) is bad?  Why did I spend time learning it then?  Just so I'm not confused anymore what exactly do we use now?

Offline ilkke

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 233
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • pix off
    • iLkKke
    • https://pixeljoint.com/p/9270.htm
    • View Profile
    • portfolio

Re: A question about 'Selout'

Reply #13 on: February 01, 2009, 11:14:24 am
So wait...Sel-out(or whatever it is called) is bad?  Why did I spend time learning it then?  Just so I'm not confused anymore what exactly do we use now?

You spent your time learning to antialias, and we use common sense?
i

Offline Helm

  • Moderator
  • 0110
  • *
  • Posts: 5159
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Asides-Bsides

Re: A question about 'Selout'

Reply #14 on: February 01, 2009, 12:46:30 pm
Mike I don't know why you spent time learning selout!  :(

blumunkee: YOU WEELL NEVER LEEVE IT DOOOOWWWN

Offline Jim16

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 208
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • Damian_G_R
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/18544.htm
    • View Profile

Re: A question about 'Selout'

Reply #15 on: February 01, 2009, 08:14:53 pm
I think then that it should be widely spread that sel-out is a bad "myth"? that beginners think are good. And maybe we should just start putting this notion into every "Pillow shading" topic that comes up all over the place, just to stop a fundamently wrong techniques from spreading.

And I was going to look into this when I saw this topic  :lol:

Offline Helm

  • Moderator
  • 0110
  • *
  • Posts: 5159
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Asides-Bsides

Re: A question about 'Selout'

Reply #16 on: February 01, 2009, 10:53:15 pm
Well I'm just a guy with an opinion. If you think selout looks good, by all means, use it. Just listen to your audience if they think it doesn't. Pillow shading most would agree looks like assfoam, but that shouldn't stop you from using it if you're doing it for some reason other than by mistake or 'I saw someone else do it'.

Offline Gil

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1543
  • Karma: +1/-0
  • Too square to be hip
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/475.htm
    • View Profile
    • My Portfolio

Re: A question about 'Selout'

Reply #17 on: February 02, 2009, 04:30:29 pm
Even assfoam has correct shading. Heck, even pillows aren't pillowshaded.

At least when I see sel-out on Shun-Li, it sorta makes sense in a line-variation dark background AA kind of way...

Offline Jad

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1048
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: A question about 'Selout'

Reply #18 on: February 02, 2009, 04:50:53 pm
I'm tired about this shit

Sel-out is short for selective outlining

Why it has come to mean somthing else is completely above me.

The broken-outline-that-works-like-AA is one kind of selective outlining, where you try to make your outline less heavy by simply omitting them and letting the brain fill in the rest. Works sometimes when you're not looking closely, from my experience. Looks ass if you're using it as a default outlining method.

There are other ways to outline your art selectively (thus not using one single-colored outline). Why is the capcom-broken one the only one that's called sel-out?

I always thought it meant all kinds of selective outlining, like omitting it completely in places and having the colour of the line follow the shading, etc.

Why don't we just ditch the misunderstood abbreviation and start typing out selective outlining when we mean it?

And whenever someone uses AA-to-black as outlines, can we just call it a 'broken outline' and not SEL-OUT so we can avoid the 'what is sel-out' questions? ):

Plxz?
' _ '

Offline Helm

  • Moderator
  • 0110
  • *
  • Posts: 5159
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • Asides-Bsides

Re: A question about 'Selout'

Reply #19 on: February 02, 2009, 04:58:04 pm
Quote
There are other ways to outline your art selectively (thus not using one single-colored outline). Why is the capcom-broken one the only one that's called sel-out?

Because that's what it meant when defined by its creators.

The point is to demystify, not to mystify. When people ask what selout is, we can give them links to threads, that's fine. If people ask what is a good way to outline their sprites, then we may help by explaining line width and light variation and etc etc etc without resorting to made-up-technique-names that further mystify, and by stressing that the better ways to outline one's work are relative and follow from good general artistic practices, not some strange pixeller-only-language.

'techniques' must be destroyed. Someone looking at Symphony of the Night and saying 'wow this style is rad, I bet they have specific techniques they used to get this result' probably hurts their artistic growth more than it helps. Fool's errands are popular because they seem to suggest shortcuts to artistic ability. "Learn selout and your sprites will become much better". This is meaningless and should die. "Learn art fundaments and your sprites, along with the rest of your art, will become better". This should be promoted. Dithering is a technique. Anti-alias is a technique. Banding is a discernible effect that should be talked about to much greater length. Selout is a byproduct of some bigger artistic decision that younger artists should face up to, not just look at the end result and pick selectively.