AuthorTopic: Scrolling Backdrop perspective?  (Read 47396 times)

Offline Willows

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Re: Scrolling Backdrop perspective?

Reply #10 on: January 05, 2009, 03:13:23 am
You could forge a "perspectived" background using a couple parallax layers, no?

Offline Dusty

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Re: Scrolling Backdrop perspective?

Reply #11 on: January 05, 2009, 04:33:12 am
You could forge a "perspectived" background using a couple parallax layers, no?
I don't think there is a way to emulate the perspective changing, though, while the player is moving through the level. Using a static image is fine, but if he starts doing parallax, I assume he wants the background to scroll and it's going to look terrible having the background scroll with a static perspective like the one he has drawn out.

Offline Mike

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Re: Scrolling Backdrop perspective?

Reply #12 on: January 05, 2009, 06:23:28 am
I made a test of this in photoshop and my vanishing points were thousands of pixels apart.  Unfortunately this didn't really fix the problem and it still became warped and wonky.  This makes sense of course since it is impossible to have a static image portray moving perspective because the vanishing points would have to change along with it.  Hell I even tried that, but I think my gaps were too far apart.  GAAAHHHH!!!

Ok so exactly how am I supposed to make backgrounds that have depth like how they look in Megaman X.  I don't want to put simple profiled views of buildings if I don't have to.

Offline Sherman Gill

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Re: Scrolling Backdrop perspective?

Reply #13 on: January 05, 2009, 06:56:37 am
Have it so as you go right layer 1 of a parallax background (the building 'faces', y'know, the whole front) moves relative to a second layer, which is like a 1 color side of a building (Like an alley)? It'd look cheap, but that's because it is cheap :P
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Offline ndchristie

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Re: Scrolling Backdrop perspective?

Reply #14 on: January 05, 2009, 06:30:01 pm
few things since perspectival systems are totally my jam :

as stated before you cannot change the perspective on a static image.  ever.  if your viewpoint moves in relation to a linear, nonparallel system, it will goof the whole thing.  The only way to scroll an image without changing the perspective is to accept abstraction in the form of wonky buildings or use of a parallel projection, such as isometric.

size is irrelevant, only angle.  The sun is a thousand times bigger than human imagination yet it appears only a few degrees wide due to distance and perspective.  Some people will forget this, and argue for the implementations of other systems to account for the greatness of an object, but this is a falsehood originating from neglecting the fundamentals on which the system was founded.

3-point perspective is an answer to the greater problems introduced by camera pitch.  it is not intended to be used in pieces where a horizon is in the main field of view, reasons next.

THE WONKINESS YOU SEE IS NOT THE RESULT OF A BROKEN SYSTEM OR IMPROPER IMPLEMENTATION, BUT OF AN IMPROPER VIEWING OF IT.  Linear perspective relies on a fixed point of observation in relation to the image.  This means that, on an infinite surface oriented to the viewer, all of the wonkiness is actually just correcting for natural increases in space needed to convey the same sized object in perspective.  Because the human eye cannot properly focus on these areas, it goes generally unnoticed.



so hat does this mean in practical terms?  don't move the viewpoint on a static image for one.  two, if you want perspective to look right, you have to assume an average viewing position and coordinate from there using angles.  I have to go now but if someone wants a practical demonstration of this (it's off-topic for the original question posed) they can ask.
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Offline Mike

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Re: Scrolling Backdrop perspective?

Reply #15 on: January 06, 2009, 03:26:19 am
I would like a practical demonstration please  ;D

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Scrolling Backdrop perspective?

Reply #16 on: January 06, 2009, 05:07:38 am
Would you mind posting the test you did with the extremely far apart perspective points? I cant shake the sensation that you just have some insane standard of quality in mind for this piece.

You mentioned megaman X...if you mean the first game then, yeah it pretty much just uses paralel lines...not even diagonal lines, it actually uses the same exact projection lines as the foreground.

On sidescrollers, you usually only see 2 point perspective on screens which will not scroll, or will atleast be viewed for a while before they are scrolled, but it's almost always bullshit perspective.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChQqkbwHaCM&feature=related here's legendary MetalSlug(2), the statue face in the BG has perspective, and so do the columns in the foreground but there's NO WAY the vanishing points of those two will match....neither is 3 point. I've only really seen 3 point on objects that are so far in the bg they've got fog surrounding them and there's no way to really connect them with anything else in the picture.

if you wanted to get into this really really teep-----there was this very interesting tutorial a while ago...that seems to be offline now (DAMN) on something called ten point perspective...which creates a sort of Fish-Eye view, but you can sort of link up a bunch of fish eye views, and create a functional scrollable picture.

The tutorial claimed this was the true nature of optics, and this straight line based perspective was exclusive to humans. This idea DOES seem to have some ground, because this is the actual perspective used in those those apps that let you have panoramic phtographic views of famous places...they're made by linking together a bunch of fish eye perspective photos.

They also use it in animated features like the 2D StarWars:The Clone wars that was aired in Cartoon Network. They draw this big ass 10 point perspective drawing, and then scroll trough the image with a proportionally very small viewing area...creating that illusion of changing perspectives.




Offline ndchristie

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Re: Scrolling Backdrop perspective?

Reply #17 on: January 06, 2009, 06:38:27 am
what they call "ten point" is what i'm going to assume is another name for cylindrical perspective, or panoramic perspective, which is not scrolling at all but in fact rotation - you start facing one way, turn 90 degrees, 90 again, 90 again, and 90 again to reach the first and fifth point, athough i'm not certain how they would spread the other 5 out (probably between up or down).

true spherical perspective has a lot of trouble existing on paper because at least one point MUST exist as an infinite line instead, like a backwards mercator map.

the true nature of optics though is a silly thing to suggest on paper because optics are three dimensional, dynamic and binocular.  hold your hand in front of one eye and tell me how you would draw that image :P
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Offline Mike

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Re: Scrolling Backdrop perspective?

Reply #18 on: January 06, 2009, 11:19:04 am
Wow I did not expect any of these answers, what a crazy topic!  10 point perspective whaaaA??  I took a class on perspective but we only got up to 3 point perspective...

Offline ptoing

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Re: Scrolling Backdrop perspective?

Reply #19 on: January 15, 2009, 04:48:01 am
They draw this big ass 10 point perspective drawing

Show me a 10 point perspective picture and win a cookie. I will give you even one for a 7 point one. It's not really possible per se.

There are 3 dimensional axis, 6 directions max. 5 point perspective is hardcore fisheye view, like following picture by M.C. Escher.



It's not possible to do more, just think about it. Take a cube and then distort it towards more than 5 directions on a 2 dimensional plane.

http://www.termespheres.com/perspective.html

Here you see 6 point perspective, tho it is just 2 5point images. Of course you could go and warp the back around the outside of the front, and then you would have the whole room on one plane.
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