AuthorTopic: Aryll and Tetra from Wind Waker and Ariel from The Little Mermaid(Nudity)  (Read 10963 times)

Offline Mike

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Re: Aryll from Wind Waker (WIP)(nudity...sorta?)

Reply #10 on: November 29, 2008, 02:26:01 pm
First off I am sorry Willows I didn't mean to fly off the handle...well I did but I apologize for it I will work on thinking before posting and then I'll think again furthermore.

To Helm, thanks for not striking me out.

I think some of the personality was lost in the update. I guess the pose is more technically correct, but the original pose captured the character and honestly didn't look that unbalanced. I don't think Willows has played wind waker or maybe any Zelda, so I can see how he may be confused about a few things.

As for critique on the original piece, I don't have anything, but I would like to see the piece as it progresses.
NaCl:  I am totally with you on this my main goal is to get the feel of the characters from Wind Waker but I'm getting conflicting critique so I'm tripping out a bit.

The problem with the duck was that it was totally not dynamic. It could add to the piece by being there, if it was interacting with it. The duck could be just busy landing or more likely, flying away. Then Aryll would look either happily suprised or annoyed, scaring the creature off in probably both cases. The pose is mainly read as unbalanced, because there's no real depth in the body yet, while I figure the ass sticking out to the back, and the back bent forwards to end up a bit in front of the knees, creating a balanced looking pose if you'd look at it from 90 degrees rotation according to the current camera.

Although this idea can be brought with volumes rather than viewpoint changes, it may be good to draw these volumes anyway. This world consists of tones and colours, not of lines defining a shape. Lines only work for the definition of complex geometry, and only because we are able to read those. If you draw tones and with that create volumes anyone will understand them directly. That's just a recommended workflow I suggest to you for pieces like this, I don't follow it always either though (to my own annoyance most of the time haha).

Now, good luck on this but erm... put some clothes on. (Or draw a bar in the background).

TrevoriuS can you break down what you are saying further?  I don't work with lines in my initial phases I work out shapes, then lines then shading.  Btw I'm kind of confused that you keep saying tones; in color theory there were things like Shades, tones and tints.  Tones being colors that have their complementary color added to them, tints being colors with white added to them, and shades being colors that had black added to them.  Is it possible for you to make an edit of what you mean.  I feel like what you are saying can really help me but I don't quite get what you mean yet.

Oh here is some updates, Tetra, and a lame background that isn't done.



I posted them up top as well.

I made a slight update for tetra's face.

Oh and I think I'm making series of drawings like this using pixels, next in the series is Ariel from The Little Mermaid

« Last Edit: November 29, 2008, 02:53:30 pm by Mike »

Offline TrevoriuS

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Well it depends on my material, but when working on PC or with paint, I like to start out black. With a graphite stick I work the other way around which also works, and in pixelart it really depends on what I'm making. But what I mean with the term 'tone' is really the light and dark. You can make things clear with colour, but I like to only make them clearer. Therefore I generally start with a dark grey, then start adding lighter tones as to where things exist that are hit by light. I leave black open for details and extreme contrast, as I'm generally more likely to use pure white than pure black (using both creates odd contrast when applied wrong, or unsuited for the piece). I'd really have to show you some progress strip or something to break this down completely, but I'm not sure if you like that being posted (and possibly further discussed) in your topic. So PM me or reply here about where you want to go with that, I'll start on an example anyways now.

For your further WIP: Tetra in general, and Aryll's hair/face fall away in the background. There is too little contrast going on to make them stick out, and in general the bright colours and the lack of contrast in the actual value/brightness/tone loses depth. In general, a photograph doesn't capture an environment well, because you lose the second eye and with that the depth. As we make art and create ourselves, people often use foggyness or darkness in an environment towards depth, and you can make your character stand out by giving them more brightness or contrast, and let them have relatively excessive shadows cast onto the environment.

Now the art on the characters on themselves is good, the environment a little less but hey, that's a very WIP as we all can see and I'm sure you'll progress further into that without further comments. But what this piece lacks still is interaction. Aryll stares at the camera while Tetra looks at something non-existant (or at least, I can't see it from my viewpoint, so it should not be of interest for me, nor the characters portrayed in your scene). It'd make more sense for them to either interact with me, having a first person view, or with eachother. Or possibly with the environment itself, right now they're just standing there with no relation to eachother, nor with relation to the place they are at. Make sure that how they stand makes sense, not necessarily (but likely with only 2 characters) to eachother, but to the environment as well. Aryll seems to happily point something out, but to something by my, the viewers, feet which is invisible now.

PS: You draw out a shape, by defining 2 area's, 'solid' and 'rest', per surface. But what your shape lacks is depth, this method could work very well when drawing from life, but to really make sure your dynamics are right, you should add a lighter and darker shade in your initial form to define depth and positioning in the third dimension beforehand. That's just what I could suggest you to do for now though, perhaps I don't understand your workflow well enough yet.

Offline The B.O.B.

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   This is more a general statement then it is a critique, but I'll say it anyway: What's the point of starting another wip, if you're going to leave the other, well...unfinished? I guess I'm not understanding the point in doing this, unless these drawings are just scraps, and their really just for showcase, rather than critique. If for critique, I'd suggest sticking with one thing and trying to finish it to the best of your ability, while listening to worthwhile critique, before moving on to something else. Else, you'd be prone to developing a bad habit...
my back hurts...

Offline AlexWeldon

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Given the style that I'm seeing in your drawing of Tetra (which is the closest to being finished), I think vector art would be a more appropriate medium for you than pixel, no?

Offline Mike

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   This is more a general statement then it is a critique, but I'll say it anyway: What's the point of starting another wip, if you're going to leave the other, well...unfinished? I guess I'm not understanding the point in doing this, unless these drawings are just scraps, and their really just for showcase, rather than critique. If for critique, I'd suggest sticking with one thing and trying to finish it to the best of your ability, while listening to worthwhile critique, before moving on to something else. Else, you'd be prone to developing a bad habit...

I'm working on each one jointly.  I work on one when I'm bored of the other and vice versa.  I don't like being stuck to one thing and one thing only.

Given the style that I'm seeing in your drawing of Tetra (which is the closest to being finished), I think vector art would be a more appropriate medium for you than pixel, no?

I don't really like vector art so much.  I prefer the simplicity of pixels plus I have an extreme range of control while using Promotion.  Even though it looks like I'm not paying attention to the pixels I still have to zoom in 4x to 5x and work on it pixel by pixel very carefully.  These sets of drawings I am doing are not traditional pixel style drawings that use anti-aliasing and other forms of techniques that make pixels smoother.  I don't know...it's just how I like to do it.

Offline Mike

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Update*

Well I spent a few hours on these so I think they are ready for more experienced critique.  I'm not very good at light and shadow but I'm not going to half ass it if I can help it.  I need help on that the most I think.

I changed a few things about Tetra, she is crossing her arms now but I couldn't quite get the hand resting on the arm right using only 2 colors. Furthermore I gave Aryll a pretty little dress and sandals.

Offline Helm

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You drew these but what do their poses signify? The expressions? What is the image telling the viewer? Body language should suggest an emotional direction. The tall girl has the body language of a person that wants to be left alone and the face of a sassy challenging young lady. The child, I can't really tell what its body language is supposed to suggest. Who stands like that with their knees together and about to topple over?

I guess I need more context to understand what you're trying to do.

Offline TrevoriuS

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It's overdriven happyness combined with a sense of victory over a childish subject, at least that's what I find in the girl's expression... Possibly because it is a bit towards the character as it is presented in the actual Wind Waker game. But apart from composition and meaning, ,which indeed is a pretty advanced subject, you could want to increase your initial skill in art, and draw without meaning (yet). I generally do that when drawing from life, it helps me alot with information on how to do things, but does not allow me to do much but choose my material and level of detail to get in a certain emotion. I don't put the scene together myself.

Now anyways, here's a bit on the tonals I was talking about earlier: Click

You can take this further, as I set out my dimensions a bit with lines. I actually drew a skeleton model without a single line, all I drew was cross hatches to define 2 shades (the initial form and the shadow side), and then went over it again adding details and small bits, as well as erasing some small points for highlights. You could try something like that too to test your observational accuracy some day :)

Offline Mike

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You drew these but what do their poses signify? The expressions? What is the image telling the viewer? Body language should suggest an emotional direction. The tall girl has the body language of a person that wants to be left alone and the face of a sassy challenging young lady. The child, I can't really tell what its body language is supposed to suggest. Who stands like that with their knees together and about to topple over?

I guess I need more context to understand what you're trying to do.

Uh you are right there context is a bit hazy...I'm not sure what I can do...I suck at expressions.  As for the full context of the picture, Tetra, Link, and Aryll(and maybe Medily) will be standing together for a photo.  That was as far as my initial planning went.  Oh and Aryll is trying to get a better look of something that is behind the camera.  Anyway I could convey that better without drastically changing the pose...maybe the arms and hands could be changed?

It's overdriven happyness combined with a sense of victory over a childish subject, at least that's what I find in the girl's expression... Possibly because it is a bit towards the character as it is presented in the actual Wind Waker game. But apart from composition and meaning, ,which indeed is a pretty advanced subject, you could want to increase your initial skill in art, and draw without meaning (yet). I generally do that when drawing from life, it helps me alot with information on how to do things, but does not allow me to do much but choose my material and level of detail to get in a certain emotion. I don't put the scene together myself.

Now anyways, here's a bit on the tonals I was talking about earlier: Click

You can take this further, as I set out my dimensions a bit with lines. I actually drew a skeleton model without a single line, all I drew was cross hatches to define 2 shades (the initial form and the shadow side), and then went over it again adding details and small bits, as well as erasing some small points for highlights. You could try something like that too to test your observational accuracy some day :)
  thanks for those tonals TrevoriuS I will have a look at them right now.  I really appreciate you taken time out of your day to do this for me.

Oh and another update this time it is for Ariel(I said I was working on them jointly :) )

I'm not done yet but I did play around with adding bubbles which is just an overlay and the original is not effected.  I really need help on the lighting for this one.  I imagine the light source is above Ariel, so I tried my best to envision what that would look like but as you can see I can only envision so much.

Offline TrevoriuS

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To refrain from posting huge images I scaled it down and dit a rough paintover. I darkened your image and started painting from bright to dark, then replaced the background with black, added colours, added a slight sense of background and adjusted colours roughly according to that. The workflow can help you also at this stage of your piece really. If you'd take my image but on the actual size, you can go over it again and again, adding more and more details flowing over into eachother.