Official Off-Topic Thread

[Atnas]

It's always seemed to be something people add to their thread in order to augment critique. Saying you aren't finished leaves some things up in the air, and tells critiquers that now is a good time to suggest changes that would fundamentally alter an image. When there is no [wip] tag, either the person didn't feel like writing it in, or they feel like they're done... But we all know what the level of "done" is on pixelation *glances at news box* so it's obviously not that topic starters want to solely showcase the art, I think.

I doubt the mods add them, it's uncharacteristic of the mods here to play mommy, they tend to play daddy.

[blumunkee]

Rule 6: Content tags/warnings.

If your piece is a work in progress add [WIP] in front of a title.
If it contains an element of nudity, excessive violence or such note that as well. Please use the format of "[element] Thread Title".
E.g. "[Nudity] Yus bird goes streaking!"

 

…Along the lines of no coding confidence, hated java at uni (10 years ago, though), found Ruby in RpgMakerXP vaguely comprehensible and realized could handle something a little better than that…

Okay. If you have a lack of confidence, just pick a language you like and learn how to program. I too witnessed the horror of Java at a university. Luckily I had enough common sense to drop CS before I sank too much money into it.

For web stuff, Ruby, Python, and JavaScript are hip languages that all the kids seem to like. I don't know of any good free Ruby or JavaScript books, but this Python one comes highly recommended:

http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkpython/thinkpython.html

[edit]

Ruby learning:

http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?IwannaLearnRuby

Personally, I'm learning JavaScript, despite its sordid history and many design flaws:

http://javascript.crockford.com/javascript.html

[Scribblette]

I was struggling to pick between PHP/Ruby/Python until I had another look at the syntax - PHP looks laughable.

I'm torn between Python and Ruby now. As Atnas points out, Ruby definitely looks simpler and a bit more intuitive (like maybe you really could be happy writing in it), but Python looks like it might not be too much harder. I'm torn. Of course I still have no idea how all this will translate to this thing called 'web application frameworks' and how it might wind up with me making a basic facebook app, but hey. I'll just pick one up and start.

It's like... perceived practicality (ruby) vs theoretical superiority & mates who can debug anything for me (python).

I have no idea yet how using Flash would compare (adamatomic + flixel libs = how simply?)

Thank you for the links. *studystudy*

[alkaline]

laughable? well, for an inexperienced programmer, perhaps PHP may be a little intimidating, especially since you said you hated java, which has its similarities. but not laughable in terms of web development, PHP is powerful stuff.
python has a similar readability to ruby, but really it comes down to your own preference. just take a look at both and learn one you like better. (I for one like python better  )

[Scribblette]

Oh, I don't mean to sound arrogant or anything when I said laughable - I meant that sort of half-suffocated laugh of shock/disbelief when comparing the ease of reading the syntax. I am a VERY inexperienced programmer here. Please expect many unintended stupid sounding statements.

I certainly don't mean laughable in terms of capability! Far as I can see they're all perfectly capable of what I want to do.

From what I can see it looks like if I want web development I need to know PHP regardless - at least the basics. And it does look like Ruby vs Python aren't miles apart. Apparently if I learn one the rest will come without too much trouble, so hey... it's all good!

[Dex]

woo, it's my birthday \o/

to stay on topic- I've never found that much interest in programming- art and soccer are the only things that really intrigue me! Haha.

[blumunkee]

Happy birthday.

Programming, like art, is appealing in that you are basically the god of your own little domain. Given enough skill and experience, the only limitation to what you create is your imagination.

[Dusty]

I was always interested in programming, but I never have the patience to get into real programming like C++... just so much to learn and figure out. It seems like such a huge jump from scripting languages to programming.

[Ai]

real programming like C++

AFAICS languages like Python are both 'real' programming languages and scripting languages, since you can solve virtually any computational problem using them;
With any moderately complex problem domain you're trying to model, the development and usage bottleneck tends to be your own limited understanding of the domain rather than the unoptimized nature of your algorithm. IME switching to a 'low-level' language like C++ or C allows you to gain some speed at the cost of spending additional time negotiating the primitiveness of the language.

Consequently a common pattern has developed of developing in a scripting/dynamic language and only translating the points which are both simple and brute-force into a more primitive language (often C); this minimizes the cost of readjusting abstractions (inexpensive in scripting languages, very expensive and error-prone in low-level languages), which as I said, is the thing you are likely to spend most time doing.
The fact that PyTables (http://www.pytables.org), a very-high-performance system for storing and querying huge amounts of structured data, is implemented mostly in Python, illustrates this.

You only need to get into C/C++ if you really truly need exacting performance. Most people don't (especially because performance tuning tends to make your code more fragile and give you disincentives to revise it.)

Be aware though that C++ is very much an overinflated language design -- it's complexity is far beyond the reasonable.
If you want OO+high performance, Vala may be a better bet.

Programming, like art, is appealing in that you are basically the god of your own little domain. Given enough skill and experience, the only limitation to what you create is your imagination.

YES. That is EXACTLY why I like programming so much.

Ruby definitely looks simpler and a bit more intuitive (like maybe you really could be happy writing in it), but Python looks like it might not be too much harder.

I can only say: I am really happy writing in Python. Like, really really happy. The phrase 'fits your brain' is associated with it for a good reason. Almost all of the time in a coding session for me is spent problem-solving, rather than negotiating the language.

This set of images might be interesting:

http://flickr.com/photos/nicksieger/281055485/
http://flickr.com/photos/nicksieger/281055530/
http://flickr.com/photos/nicksieger/280662707/
http://flickr.com/photos/nicksieger/280661836/

-- from http://www.mail-archive.com/numpy-discussion@lists.sourceforge.net/msg03837.html

(dependency graphs for the grammars of Python, C, Java, and Ruby. Java is hilariously bad.)

[Dusty]

real programming like C++

AFAICS languages like Python are both 'real' programming languages and scripting languages, since you can solve virtually any computational problem using them;
With any moderately complex problem domain you're trying to model, the development and usage bottleneck tends to be your own limited understanding of the domain rather than the unoptimized nature of your algorithm. IME switching to a 'low-level' language like C++ or C allows you to gain some speed at the cost of spending additional time negotiating the primitiveness of the language.

I never said they weren't? The comparison of 'real' was to scripting languages that I'm familiar with.