AuthorTopic: Official Off-Topic Thread  (Read 708431 times)

Offline StaticSails

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Re: Official Off-Topic Thread

Reply #1950 on: March 30, 2011, 06:32:31 pm
Has anyone else seen these two links pop-up a lot quite recently?
http://jezebel.com/#!5785846/video-game-lets-players-slap-women
http://www.change.org/petitions/tell-walmart-dont-sell-duke-nukem-forever-with-babe-slapping-mode#?opt_new=t&opt_fb=t

Is the game sexist? How about the characters? What about the game development community? Will any of this effect it's reception (in the gaming communities) or sales?
Does this mean throwing the damsel around in Spelunky makes me sexist? If not, does sacrificing her for some loot make me sexist?

Thoughts?

Offline Jad

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Re: Official Off-Topic Thread

Reply #1951 on: March 31, 2011, 12:37:53 pm
Duke Nukem was always sexist, wasn't it? Whether the player is sexist or not, playing a Duke Nukem game, for me only depends on whether the player has a sexist mindset from the start.

With what distance does the player play duke nukem? What part about these acts entices the player? Is it fun because it's utterly ridiculous to the player, or fun because it's fun to the player to slap a bitch?

I don't know. It was expected.
' _ '

Offline Helm

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Re: Official Off-Topic Thread

Reply #1952 on: March 31, 2011, 04:35:05 pm
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Is the game sexist?

The game itself isn't this or that. But it can be recieved in a cultural context in which it is supporting sexism, yes. There is a difference. Art doesn't have any obligation to ethics. But the way art occurs in a society is a reflection of the ethics of artists and consumers alike. This means that Duke Nukem isn't *anything* as far as I'm concerned. But that Duke Nukem exists and is celebrated tells us that there is a lot of sexism in the developing and game playing community, absolutely.

Demonizing Duke Nukem for being a honest reflection of how people feel isn't going to do anything. It's a product you can buy or not buy, enjoy or not enjoy. But a broader discussion about gender roles in the video game industry and in the video game playing community absolutely is affected by something as high profile as Duke Nukem 'tapping asses'.

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How about the characters?

A character isn't sexist. What a character says about creator and adopter/consumer though, is very much open for discussion.

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What about the game development community?

Absolutely ridden with sexism and chauvinism, and not even of the ideological kind. The kind perpetuated out of sheer ignorance and perception bias.

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Will any of this effect it's reception (in the gaming communities) or sales?

I don't think so, significantly, no. Duke Nukem already preached to a very specific choir, I think.

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Does this mean throwing the damsel around in Spelunky makes me sexist?

No it doesn't. Please consider for a moment how it'd feel to not be part of the most privileged social group in the world (first world, white, young adult, middle class, straight, male). Please consider how it feels to be on the 'out' while people constantly belittle your problems with being in the out. Being a woman is hard. Spelunky has nothing to do with it. What people sweep under the rug and call non-priviledged Others hysterical over sweating has everything to do with it.

If you consider sexism and chauvinism a bad thing, something you'd like to see less of in the world, you can start by being more sensitive to the plight of individuals who aren't in your priviledged position. Just to consider them. It took me a long while to get to doing that as well.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2011, 04:38:30 pm by Helm »

Offline Dusty

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Re: Official Off-Topic Thread

Reply #1953 on: March 31, 2011, 05:15:40 pm
I don't care because I know how to draw the line between reality and a video game. If parents don't want their kids to be influenced by video games like these then they should actually look at the rating and tell them no.

Offline Helm

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Re: Official Off-Topic Thread

Reply #1954 on: March 31, 2011, 05:20:02 pm
Video games can't influence you, let's say. But they tell you how people really feel often.

Offline Dusty

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Re: Official Off-Topic Thread

Reply #1955 on: March 31, 2011, 05:36:26 pm
Video games can't influence you, let's say. But they tell you how people really feel often.

I can't say I agree. I play video games because they're not real life, and they're fun. In Grand Theft Auto it's fun to just run down the streets and not worry about if you hit pedestrians, in fact, seeing them fly 40ft into the air was always funny. Do you think that it means I really want to grab a car and start running people over, even if I know not to do it?

I have a deep respect for women, being raised in a household of with mother and three sisters(and no brothers), but I can still play a game like GTA or Duke Nukem without having it influence me, or more importantly, thinking it's reflecting some deep inner hate against people/women.

Offline Helm

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Re: Official Off-Topic Thread

Reply #1956 on: March 31, 2011, 06:08:52 pm
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Do you think that it means I really want to grab a car and start running people over, even if I know not to do it?

Do I think you have death fantasies and power fantasies just like you have sexual fantasies? Of course. What is so shocking in that?

edit: to flesh out my reply a bit further: in a different social time, with different social rules, you'd be mowing people down with your chariot like a motherfucker. This is not 'bad' or 'good', it's just how... humanity works.

« Last Edit: March 31, 2011, 06:10:37 pm by Helm »

Offline Dusty

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Re: Official Off-Topic Thread

Reply #1957 on: March 31, 2011, 06:45:55 pm
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Do you think that it means I really want to grab a car and start running people over, even if I know not to do it?

Do I think you have death fantasies and power fantasies just like you have sexual fantasies? Of course. What is so shocking in that?

edit: to flesh out my reply a bit further: in a different social time, with different social rules, you'd be mowing people down with your chariot like a motherfucker. This is not 'bad' or 'good', it's just how... humanity works.

Maybe, but I'd also be a totally different person regardless. Environment when growing up has a great influence on who you become, I think.

In the end though, I can play a game like GTA and run over a person and not care because I know it's just a game. On the otherhand, I can witness someone actually being hit by a car(which I have) and feel genuine concern for the person.

I don't believe, given the opportunity to be in a world without order, law, and morality, that everyone who enjoys games like GTA/Duke Nukem would suddenly start doing everything they enjoy in the games.

Offline Helm

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Re: Official Off-Topic Thread

Reply #1958 on: March 31, 2011, 09:42:47 pm
You'd be different, but you'd still have a sex drive and a death drive. Reading some of Dr. Freud's work might be of interest to you.

"It's just a game" is a very insidious little thing to say. You run someone down in GTA knowing full well what internal desires this is feeding. They do not directly translate to killing people in the real world, that's a simple way to look at what I am saying. Nor do irrational desires for death and destruction bar you from being able to feel empathy. Emotions aren't either/or, they're not binary, life is not a bioware rpg where you're either space jesus or superjerk.

In a world without order, law and morality (back in the onset of human civilization) human beings created order, law and morality so as to stratify the desires of the wealthy few on the backs of the poor masses. Behind closed doors everything you consider despicable and inhuman is entertained by those that are beyond the reach of order, law and morality. The poor can die in the shit, and the middle class (us) can play videogames where they pretend to be the ones in power instead.

Offline trough

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Re: Official Off-Topic Thread

Reply #1959 on: April 01, 2011, 12:33:21 am
It's interesting to read this. Do you think all people have a "Death Drive?" I really can't remember ever wanting any deaths to occur.