AuthorTopic: WIP guy with hammer  (Read 35376 times)

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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WIP guy with hammer

on: October 05, 2008, 02:48:08 am
Based more or less of Dentetsu No Stafy 2 style.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
New Stuff!!!

Main Characters

idle-
walk-
                               dash-
jump-
push-
hurt-

Enemies/Allies

policeman-

Other

                  explosion-
title screen (very WIP)-
« Last Edit: November 11, 2008, 03:56:48 pm by Tuna Unleashed »

Offline Dex

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #1 on: October 05, 2008, 02:53:50 am
The shading on the skin is kind of messy, to be honest. The pose looks fairly good, though.

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #2 on: October 05, 2008, 03:05:07 am

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #3 on: October 06, 2008, 10:45:29 pm

Offline Dex

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #4 on: October 07, 2008, 12:15:44 am
The limbs look kind of noodly :/

Offline Destiny

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #5 on: October 07, 2008, 02:11:02 am
Hes too red.

Offline TonyB

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #6 on: October 07, 2008, 03:08:49 am
Yes, the poses look great, but the character's outline has too much saturation. Tone it down a little bit and give it a more "natural" look.

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #7 on: October 07, 2008, 01:23:45 pm

Offline Andre

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #8 on: October 07, 2008, 08:56:32 pm
I think the hammer is way too flat =/ maybe rotating it a lil bit...

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #9 on: October 07, 2008, 11:26:00 pm

Offline Dex

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #10 on: October 08, 2008, 03:27:32 am
Did you take any of the "the limbs look noodly" and "the skin is too red" critique. Sadly, I don't see much improvement. :/

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #11 on: October 08, 2008, 12:52:30 pm
He's definitely less red, I'm still trying to figure out how to fix the noodly one though.

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #12 on: October 08, 2008, 01:55:38 pm

Offline Cow

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #13 on: October 09, 2008, 12:43:38 am
I was kind of saddened to see a whole thread of one-liners so I made an edit:



Points:

  • Changes in pose. The way your original had the shoulders positioned made it seem as if we caught him mid-swing, heaving his entire weight to get the hammer to move, but this is just an idle animation it seems. Legs were looking a little Steamboat Willie-esque, which I think could work if applied consistently and supported by the animation style, but I don't think that is occurring atm.
  • Color tweaks. Gave him a more natural skintone, I think I also gave the blues a bit more 'life'
  • The selout. This is the main problem with this IMO. There's loads of jaggies everywhere, and I tried to show how it would look like with more consistent outlining.
  • Lots of style-crits that you can safely ignore, however I do believe a person would want to keep their hair out of their face when they're about to kill/get killed. Just a thought.

Just ask if you have any followup questions or anything.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2008, 12:48:56 am by Cow »

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #14 on: October 09, 2008, 03:21:45 am
Well I actually had a major update that I believe fixed a few of these problems but I was just too lazy to post.

BTW its kinda supposed to look like he's ready to swing just 'cause.
Like golf
Just like golf
« Last Edit: October 09, 2008, 03:32:16 am by Tuna Unleashed »

Offline $ymbol

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #15 on: October 09, 2008, 03:54:18 am
Typically a hammer couldn't go that low, could it?  ???


Anyway, this still has some issues Cow addressed; like the sel-out, pose, and skin tone.

I would also change that palette on the hammer. It needs more hue-shifting, and you shaded it rather flat.

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #16 on: October 09, 2008, 12:24:36 pm
It could as long as its one of those platformers that has a bit of depth in the areas.

Anyway... um... what's sel-out?
I mean, I know its selective outlining, but can I get a bit of a crash course on what that means?

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #17 on: October 09, 2008, 12:51:59 pm
Improved the pose, based on cows... erm... edit.

Offline Yo-Yo-Master

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #18 on: October 09, 2008, 11:23:29 pm
Seeing as this looks like a side scroller, I have a (personal preferenced) suggestion.  In my opinion, the hammer shouldn't cut into the platform on which he's standing. 
Anyway, here's how I might have done it:
  Excuse the hair/messy rotation/fact that the handle moves up and down as well as tilting.
Even if you disregard my first point, I still think the hammer shouldn't shift forwards an backwards as much as it should tilt back and forth a bit.  Its heavy, so he wouldn't move it a lot if he's just idle.

Offline Dex

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #19 on: October 09, 2008, 11:41:18 pm
I agree with Yo-Yo-Master here. The hammer should probably be at an angle near him. I also like the newer version a bit, but it seems you didn't follow Cow's advice on how to do the stance. He still seems a little "noodly."

Getting better, though!

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #20 on: October 10, 2008, 12:02:01 am
This is the first piece I've ever done where I've tried to take every bit of critique I've gotten. Its frustrating, but I'm really liking the turnout.
Anyway, I fixed the selout and hammer placement.

Dex- by noodly do you mean the curve or the build? Because he's supposed to have a more average type build. If you mean the curve of his elbow I'll fix that.

Offline Dex

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #21 on: October 10, 2008, 12:18:57 am
Yeah, maybe a bit of a more pointy appearance on the elbow?

The hammer looks a lot better! :]

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #22 on: October 10, 2008, 01:33:42 am

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #23 on: October 10, 2008, 02:56:48 am
I think the idle is almost done.

Offline Cow

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #24 on: October 10, 2008, 05:41:42 am
Selout is essentially the opposite of AAing, it's the placing of dark pixels along the edges of the object, presumably so that either the sprites when put in a game context would either blend in better or stand out more from the background. Depending on the background color I guess.

The following images were shamelessly lifted from pkmays' incredibly old tutorial:


outlined - selectively outlined


game context

Anyway the general consensus is that a consistent outline with color variation to simulate line weight looks nicer and I tend to agree. With those you don't have to worry about how your sprite interacts with changing background colors, and don't have to limit the background brightness to make sure it acts as AA at all times.


You've made some good strides with this, the outlining is handled much better than it was before (however the hammer handle is still a mess!). (His) right arm bends very strangely, the elbow should be a bit higher than where it's at now I think. I like what you did with the chest.

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #25 on: October 10, 2008, 01:25:51 pm
Thanks. I thought I'd figured it out and I wasn't far wrong.
Here's one with a higher elbow.

I think I like the old one better.

Offline Andre

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #26 on: October 10, 2008, 09:33:42 pm
How about my edit?


 ;D

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #27 on: October 10, 2008, 09:53:13 pm
Not quite sure I like that. The hammer looks like it would crumble at the drop of a hat.

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #28 on: October 11, 2008, 01:20:35 am
WIP side attack.

Offline Emtch

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #29 on: October 11, 2008, 06:52:19 am
The hammer looks like it's made out of charcoal and would break very easily. And the swing hasn't got enough power. You can see the hammer swinging up fast, but he barely moves at all. A swing that large would require the whole body power.

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #30 on: October 11, 2008, 12:56:47 pm
I haven't even finished his movement yet, only the first two frames.

Offline Emtch

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #31 on: October 11, 2008, 04:52:53 pm
I haven't even finished his movement yet, only the first two frames.
I know, but the frames that are there now makes it look like his hammer is full of helium.

Offline Willows

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #32 on: October 11, 2008, 11:32:33 pm
Might be a good idea to put yourself in the situation and imagine how you'd swing a hammer. If you can, get your hands on a sledgehammer and try find a smooth or quick way to strike something. Don't smash yourself, though :D

For a heavy object as such, I imagine two efficient ways of attacking with it. One would be to spin or twirl in order to use your own weight against the weight of the hammer, and the momentum of your spin to provide power to the attack. Kinda like the olympic hammer throw, just... less letting go.

The other way would be to have gravity work with you, not against you. Normally, when swinging a sledgehammer, I grab as close to the heavy end as possible, lift it up as high as I can, and then swing it down with all the force I can muster.

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #33 on: October 12, 2008, 02:36:25 am
Every pose is a WIP. I've only really got much done on the arms.

Offline Rosse

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #34 on: October 12, 2008, 07:54:58 am
In an animation, you have no single frames, just the animation. Your animation is built up with frames, but you never see a single one, just the whole. Thus it doesn't makes sense to have 2 frames "finished" and then try to make a lively animation with adding more "finished frames".

Try to capture the motion with rough frames first and clean up the single frames after you finished the animation. With that many frames you have here a motion blur isn't needed at all. In my opinion motion blur is totally overvalued [edit: It makes sense with few frames]. I tried to make a hammerblow just like you but with more "woosh-ness".



Don't forget that you have a 3D space where you can animate, you don't have to restrict yourself to the 2D plane your character's walking on.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2008, 07:56:47 am by Rosse »

Offline Quake

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #35 on: October 12, 2008, 10:46:26 am
Also, with the Animation..

near the end, the handle thing.. bends. I'd be worried if a hammer did that :P

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #36 on: October 13, 2008, 03:02:37 pm

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #37 on: October 13, 2008, 05:10:50 pm

Offline Emtch

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #38 on: October 13, 2008, 07:07:58 pm
Much better, but it still looks too light, try to add more strain on the first 2 or 3 frames. Lose the motion blur on the foot.

Offline ceddo

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #39 on: October 13, 2008, 07:58:35 pm
To swing a massive hammer like that, he'd need at least some momentum - it's hardly an arm strength thing, it's more about how much energy you build up in your stance before swinging.

That said, imagine swinging a massive sledgehammer. When I do it in the mirror, I crouch a little and bring the hammer back behind me, bringing most or all of the weight of my body on the back leg, bending it. Then i use all my upper body strength to swing the hammer over my head and at the same time straighten my back leg, gradually bringing my weight to the front with the hammer. To finish off I'd either end up dragging the hammer back on the floor after impact or if i'm swinging it in horizontally, it would end up behind me and i'd swing it back to its' original spot slowly.

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #40 on: October 13, 2008, 11:36:08 pm

Offline Rosse

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #41 on: October 14, 2008, 07:37:59 am
When looking at this animation various things occurred to me.

Your animation has much more power now, but the character lacks in life, it looks stiff. That is because he doesn't use his whole body to move the "heavy" hammer. I tried an edit to increase his body movement to put more life into the animation (I used your old animation as a guide).


I think the animation looks more lively now, but the main problem is still there: The hammer doesn't look heavy! It reminds me of the "fake-hammer" in One Piece. It's weight looks like 5t but it's 2kg in real. The animation (body movement) itself is not the problem, just the hammer doesn't fit. To be honest, it looks more like he's playing golf.


But HOW do you make it looks heavy? Gravity! Look at your animation, but played backward (I had to delete the motion blur. Otherwise it wouldn't work).


Now you have a heavy hammer. And surprise, the timing is still the same! What do we learn here? Use the gravity to increase the power of the "slam" (and don't work against it like you do in your animation now). Just ask your own experience. Did you ever chopped wood? How did you do that? Use your axe, extend yourself, hold it as high as possible to put as much potential energy as possible and with one blow you release all energy to chop the wood.
Use your experience and natural feel to put more life into your animation and make it believable. You went a long way but you can go even further. Be persistent!

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #42 on: October 14, 2008, 12:32:45 pm
... that move was going to be the second part of the combo.

Offline Jad

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #43 on: October 14, 2008, 04:08:49 pm
... that move was going to be the second part of the combo.

That's awesome, i thought that'd be cool as well! O:

Anyways, disregarding the his suggestion about changing pose, notice how awesomely heavy and dangerous the hammer movement looks when played backwards - try to get that feel on the upswing as well. Might do an edit when I get home.
' _ '

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #44 on: October 14, 2008, 09:23:34 pm
Yeah, I know. I think what I'll do is have it drag slowly along the ground a bit, then snap up quickly, then slow down again.

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #45 on: October 15, 2008, 02:36:50 am

Offline Mike

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #46 on: October 15, 2008, 05:54:22 am
If this is the first part of the combo I hope your enemies are incredibly slow.  I have had to learn this as well, and make my first attacks much quicker.  Generally the slower an attack the more power it has.  The longer it takes to swing the more risk you take but with that added power it's also a reward.

Offline The B.O.B.

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #47 on: October 15, 2008, 07:41:46 am
To be honest, I wouldn't think it's safe to move forward with animating, before reconsidering your characters stance, and style. If I were a gamer, I'd probably walk away from this one, by the looks of it..



   Other left out points include how the hammer is being held, and how it and the character don't seem to coexist at all. This is especially evident in the animations you've already begun, and in my opinion, needs fixing. The last attack animation you've posted is basically showing my point, in that the character is making minimal movement, where as the hammer is moving every 2-3 frames for every 1 frame of the character himself. Remember, when using a weapon like this, a character's movement is just as vital as the weapon's movement. In which case, you've got some unnatural things going on.
   Now I'm not ragging on you or anything, I'm just not a fan of this style of art by young gamers who don't seem to understand real life physics and jump head first into projects like this without taking it into consideration. Hope this helps a little, and good luck!
« Last Edit: October 15, 2008, 07:46:35 am by The B.O.B. »
my back hurts...

Offline Helm

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #48 on: October 15, 2008, 11:56:43 am
This is good critique. I was following this thread and getting frustrated that although there's been great advice on things, nobody seemed intent on tackling 'the bull'.

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #49 on: October 15, 2008, 12:56:21 pm
I moved on because people stopped critiquing the idle. Apparently it needs a lot more work.

Offline Yo-Yo-Master

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #50 on: October 15, 2008, 07:33:19 pm
I'm too late...and too lazy.
Since it seems like the character may need some reworking, ignore the body shape.  Since I didn't want to work too hard on this, ignore the shitty rotation/shape change/lack of arm and body movement on most slides.  That slew of wrongs aside, here's what I think is a more swishy version of that hammer swing.  Since this looks to be used in a game, you want the reaction time to be fairly responsive, even if it is a heavy weapon and takes time to get going.  I saw you wrote combo and my brain went *dingding* and I decided to show you a swooshy, classic swing combo in context.

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #51 on: October 16, 2008, 01:57:49 am
It'll just be a two hit combo.

should I shorten the neck?

Offline The B.O.B.

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #52 on: October 16, 2008, 03:03:58 am
   So I take it you're sticking with the stick figure anatomy then, despite our telling you it may not be for the best? I'm not sure if you understand our telling you that the way the character looks seems slightly...amateurish(sorry, don't mean to be mean. Just think it's time for you to hear it straight forward). Even though you posted the game it's style is based off of( Densetsu No Stafy 2), I can see no influence from the game what so ever. Round head, thin limbs, big feet: What are trying to accomplish keeping the character like this?
   I guess you must have some preference for this supposed game for the characters to look like this. For whatever reason, I hope you can find some way to make it work, as I still believe it definitely won't. Whelp, we all have our choices...
my back hurts...

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #53 on: October 16, 2008, 03:18:51 am
What do you mean exactly by a stick figure anatomy? I tried to make his arms thicker if that was what you were referring to. Did you mean something else? I'm trying to take every bit of critique I can get, so don't give up on me. Oh, and it isn't really influenced so much by DNS2 anymore. It was just kind of the base for shading and such on the earlier versions.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2008, 03:22:22 am by Tuna Unleashed »

Offline Kazuya Mochu

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #54 on: October 16, 2008, 10:43:16 am
dude, you would agree with "you have to learn to crawl before you learn to walk" right?

right now, you are trying to animate a character whose anatomy isnt really all that spotless. doing a static character that has a correct anatomy is a chalenge in it self. its not something to do in a couple of minuts, or after a couple of weeks pixeling. it takes time for your brain to be able to look at an image and spot what wrong with it. and then even if you have a correct anatomy, its going to take loads of time for you to be able to animate it correctly, because anatomy in motion brings in loads of other stresses, like the sugestion of wheight, gravity, elasticity, etc etc. I mean, you can do it. there's really nothing stoping you. but you're going to be eighter banging your head against the wall, or implementing peoples sugestions without fully understanting what they do or why they look better.
by trying to animate before you can properly draw you are learning none of these two.
Image size doesn't matter! It's what you do with your pixels that counts!

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #55 on: October 16, 2008, 12:20:38 pm
Okay, so I'll just choose one pose to work with for now.

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #56 on: October 16, 2008, 10:15:11 pm
So uh, I kinda swiped your skin pallet Bob. I also changed the hairdo if nothing else to make it more manageable. The old one coan be an alt or something.

Offline Helm

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #57 on: October 16, 2008, 10:28:18 pm
Hm no this isn't very good anatomy. Would you might drawing and posting a reasonably sized pencil drawing of the same character in a pose you think is a good idle? I think the problems you need to adress are not pixel-arty right now, they are classical skill related.

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #58 on: October 16, 2008, 10:52:34 pm
what do you mean by classical skill?

Offline Destiny

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #59 on: October 16, 2008, 11:00:10 pm
Being able to draw on paper.

Offline Helm

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #60 on: October 16, 2008, 11:08:52 pm
Yes that's what I mean. Also I meant "mind" not "might" above. Excuse my errors  :ouch:

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #61 on: October 16, 2008, 11:13:01 pm
Head's too big and he has biscuitdoughhands but you get the idea.

Offline Kazuya Mochu

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #62 on: October 17, 2008, 12:04:35 am
Ahh! thats probably what helm wanted to see and clearly there's loads of things to point out there.

orait, I dont mean to sound like an asshole but that sketch is really nothing impressive. dont get me wrong, I'm not bashing on you. Im not calling you pretencious or anything, I supose you are aware that is not a great drawing.
so Im going to ask you this. did you do that with the best of your effort or is that just a quick skecth that you threw on paper just to post it here, cause you were asked to?

Image size doesn't matter! It's what you do with your pixels that counts!

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #63 on: October 17, 2008, 12:58:19 am
Definitely... the second one. M'kay, I'll try to do something better. But is a drawing really necessary? Couldn't you just point out what's wrong with the anatomy?

In other news, got started on my second big pixelart ever. I think its going alright.

Edit: just realized he needs a much bigger forehead.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2008, 01:00:16 am by Tuna Unleashed »

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #64 on: October 17, 2008, 01:44:41 am

Offline Raytheon

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #65 on: October 17, 2008, 05:39:11 am
WHATS WITH THE HEADSHAPE

also on the small sprite legs are back waaaaaaaay too far
i am a computern

Offline xhunterko

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #66 on: October 17, 2008, 06:10:27 am
Hu-llo!

When the bob said he couldn't find anything like that in the Stafy game you mentioned, I decided to look at it myself. And what do you know, he was right! But, your character reminded me something out of the One Piece series (remembered seeing a nintendo power add for them). Since I'm looking for a sprite base, i decided to check it out. Your character looks closely to the guy posted below. It was so close in style to yours that I wanted to post it...then i forgot. So, here's a sprite sheet for you to look at. I think it should help with some of the anatomy and noodle issues that plague your sprite.

Oh, about the head. I think he might be trying to do something anime with it. Though, it looks a bit, I dunno, comic book style more to me.

http://sdb.drshnaps.com/sheets/Media/OnePiece/LuffyWS.gif

Offline Helm

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #67 on: October 17, 2008, 10:33:45 am
Yes, traditional skill is necessary to pull off what you're trying to pull off. The sketch and the big size character portrait betray fundamental difficulties with the human form. You should do extensive practice in learning to draw what you *see* and not what you think you've seen. Start with photos of people and try to copy their volumes and shapes as closely as you can. I swear if you do this for 6 months regularly you'll look back at your stuff now and be able to fix it yourself. And that's much better than us guiding you along with nitpicks.

Offline Raytheon

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #68 on: October 17, 2008, 11:47:09 am
i'm nowhere near an anatomical expert but your headshape should look slightly more like

i am a computern

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #69 on: October 17, 2008, 12:29:00 pm

okay here's my last update before my month long soul journey of discovering the mysteries of anatomy. Yeah I can understand why my anatomy sucks though. When I draw I usually screw with perspective enough to render anatomy useless.

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #70 on: October 18, 2008, 02:49:27 pm
After looking at some pixels with a similar style and size to mine and then considering how disgustingly tall my guy's legs would be if they were straight, I think I fixed up the anatomy if only a little bit.

Offline Willows

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #71 on: October 18, 2008, 06:35:29 pm
The problem with referencing anatomy is that though you may be able to find a good reference in the pose you want, all that will do is help you draw the pose you want. Sounds exactly like what you want, I know, but when you consider that you're almost definitely going to draw someone in a different pose with different proportions in the near future... well, learning how to draw the outline of the one pose won't have helped you much.

I myself have no idea what's the "best" way to learn anatomy. You might think it would be to get one of those hefty books with all the muscles and bones and muscle names, because, hey, they're "anatomy", right? Well, though you will have to learn muscles and bones eventually, I believe you'd be better suited to learning the basic structure of the body and how to make a pose look like it's doing what it's doing before you worry much about how the deltoid and bicep interact.

Quite a few people I know swear by the book "Force :  Dynamic Life Drawing for Animators" by Mike Mattesi. It's a fair building block to start from, but it doesn't really go as much into structure as you should (something that I'm still fighting with, myself), though it DOES push a very fun and exciting/dramatic way to draw. Rhythm, man. If you capture the rhythm of the pose, it'll look cool no matter how much you know about muscles (unless you bomb your proportions, but that's another story).

Force book is great, but as mentioned, it lacks structure. A book that fills that hole (so I've heard, don't own it myself) Would be the Vilppu Drawing Manual. Vilppu is one of the old guys who worked for Disney and as such he literally wrote the book on drawing. I've only watched the instructional DVDs (some of them) and though he draws slow as all hell (so you can actually SEE what he's doing, I assume) he draws virtually flawlessly and helps greatly to understand the process and how to simplify forms into geometric shapes.

The third recomendation that I've got is a touch expensive for its size, and I'm sure there are things similar elsewhere, but I'll mention it because it's the only one I know. Wayne Gilbert's "Simplified Drawing for Planning Animation" brings you back out of realistically-proportioned drawings and into creating cartoony characters. It explains further simplification and how to design a silhouette for your character that tells the viewer what your character is about, just from the silhouette.

Other than that, draw. Once you understand basic simplification somewhat, go sit in a coffee shop and covertly draw people. Like a ninja. Try not to laugh too hard when you draw someone funny-looking, though, because people tend to think you're crazy pretty quick :/

In case you're too lazy to hunt these books down yourself:

Simplified drawing for planning animation, Wayne Gilbert:
http://www.amazon.com/Simplified-drawing-planning-animation-Gilbert/dp/0971343918

Vilppu Drawing Manual, Glenn Vilppu:
http://www.amazon.com/Vilppu-Drawing-Manual-Glenn/dp/1892053039

Force: Dynamic Life Drawing for Animators: Mike Mattesi
http://www.amazon.com/Force-Dynamic-Drawing-Animators-Second/dp/0240808452

I'm not saying these are the best books money can buy and that they'll make you a great artist in 6 months (Though you can improve a hell of a lot in 6 months, believe me :D) but they'll give you a good building block to start from, and aren't that hefty an investment. An' I really can't blame you if you don't even consider getting any of these books at all; I'd have done the same a year or two ago. I do recommend getting the Force book, though. It's fun.

That's all! Cheers.

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #72 on: October 18, 2008, 08:03:58 pm
The problem with referencing anatomy is that though you may be able to find a good reference in the pose you want, all that will do is help you draw the pose you want. Sounds exactly like what you want, I know, but when you consider that you're almost definitely going to draw someone in a different pose with different proportions in the near future... well, learning how to draw the outline of the one pose won't have helped you much.
actually the sprite I based the proportions from was in a very different pose, but your point remains solid. I'll probably look into one of those books if I ever come across some money.

Offline TrevoriuS

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #73 on: October 18, 2008, 08:07:17 pm
You use a sprite to define proportions: bad. Use humans, that's what you're drawing in the first place. And with humans I don't necessarily mean an antomical model or anything, because anything that's perfect and moves according to physiological standard will overcome unrealistic as it is so perfect that it is also impossible to find in life. Of course when drawing your characters in a posed position, alot of rules about proportions vanish entirely, as there is forshortening and further perspective going on. In addition to that every human is different, so when having 2 characters, give them a slightly offset proportion division.

You keep posting stuff defending yourself, and there really is no problem to that and I don't mean to offend you, nobody here while at that, so you are right taking a defensive position leaving room for discussion, but by now quite some people told you, so I recommend you to just start drawing humans, practice on anatomy a bit, and settle down on drawing ability. Then you can redraw this guy entirely, again with reference, because even though you draw endless amnounts of humans, a referenced drawing WILL end up being more convincing than something done from the bare head and that is 'guessed'.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2008, 08:09:01 pm by TrevoriuS »

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #74 on: October 18, 2008, 08:31:47 pm
I have been, but what am I supposed to do until then? Quit spriting? I figure that while I practice I may as well at least try to get it right.

Offline Raytheon

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #75 on: October 19, 2008, 06:06:47 am
the thighs should be thicker than the lower leg, the legs should be slightly longer and in a more practical pose (be able to move into other poses not looking like hes trying to look cool), and the pose should be more natural. the body in general should be a bit wider, but the colours and shading have greatly improved
i am a computern

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #76 on: October 20, 2008, 01:17:20 am
Better?

Oh, and pig mask I apologize profusely if I've been argumentative. I seriously don't try to be.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2008, 03:48:51 am by Tuna Unleashed »

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #77 on: October 23, 2008, 09:49:17 pm

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #78 on: October 24, 2008, 12:32:43 am

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #79 on: October 24, 2008, 06:47:31 pm





« Last Edit: October 24, 2008, 07:44:58 pm by Tuna Unleashed »

Offline Raytheon

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #80 on: October 25, 2008, 08:08:16 pm
much better, but the walking or thumping looks odd
i am a computern

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #81 on: October 26, 2008, 02:36:39 pm


Offline Dokozai

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #82 on: October 26, 2008, 03:03:22 pm



It seems his entire physique changes when he jumps, you might wanna look into that.

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #83 on: October 26, 2008, 11:10:53 pm

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #84 on: October 26, 2008, 11:29:19 pm

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #85 on: October 27, 2008, 02:04:50 am
Okay, I need some help. I'm trying to think of a way to have him run, but I can't think of any way to have him do it with that big hammer. Any suggestions would be most helpful. Diagrams or examples are even better. Thanks in advance.

Offline Blick

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #86 on: October 27, 2008, 02:36:25 am
Quote
Okay, I need some help. I'm trying to think of a way to have him run, but I can't think of any way to have him do it with that big hammer. Any suggestions would be most helpful. Diagrams or examples are even better. Thanks in advance.
Try. Look at other running animations, find some threads with other run cycles and observe. Then create one from what you've learned through your own study and then it'd be easier for other members to help you. Asking us for help on something you have yet to create isn't going to work.

As for your posted animations, I'm impressed with your progress since the first post. The portrait is still a mess and you really should work with drawing portraits from photographs or have a friend model for you, whatever works, and really pay attention to drawing what you're seeing.

On the walking animation, I like that you show weight in his steps. I've always found it a bit ridiculous when characters in games move swiftly with large weapons (Cloud from FF7 being the most notable), so it's a nice departure to a more realistic walk under the circumstances.

The jump animation, his torso and head both shrink slightly on the falling frames. Also, his arm rotates around the handle. First his palm is facing up then, as he's falling, it faces down, but there's no indication of rotation in the hammer. I'm having trouble trying to visualize how the rotation of his arm would affect the weapon (would it flip the entire weapon so the hammer's head would then be in front of his body? I used to be so proud of my spatial reasoning), so hopefully you or someone else can figure out how to move the weapon to synchronize it with the movement of his arm.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2008, 02:46:09 am by Blick »

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #87 on: October 27, 2008, 02:44:26 am
Okay, thanks.

Offline Blick

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #88 on: October 27, 2008, 02:54:15 am
Now here's where you should take strain and comfort into consideration. Someone wouldn't necessarily want to move into a position that's painful. With that being said, try a demonstration. Keep your palm facing up and see if you can move both arms behind your back and level with your shoulders, as the character is now doing in his falling frames. Hurts, no?

Simply keeping his palm facing upward throughout is a quick fix, but an uncomfortable one. Switching it so his palm is facing down at all times is also, with the existing frames, an uncomfortable one.

In my opinion, you'd be better off with rotating the weapon or finding a new way for him to hold that hammer, which both mean more than a few pixels would have to be altered.

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #89 on: October 28, 2008, 12:12:52 am

Offline Destiny

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #90 on: October 28, 2008, 12:19:01 am
If it were me I would probably jump with the hammer over my shoulder
But thats just me
Looks good so far

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #91 on: October 28, 2008, 02:31:45 am
I kinda wanted the design and hammer to be simple, though I am considering minor customization.

As for the rest of it, could you put that in ignoramus terms, 'cause I just got really friggin' confused.

Edit: I think I understand what you meant with the jump.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2008, 02:42:16 am by Tuna Unleashed »

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #92 on: October 28, 2008, 02:54:59 am
VERY wip run.

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #93 on: October 28, 2008, 11:28:48 pm
Slightly less WIP run

Offline Kazuya Mochu

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #94 on: October 29, 2008, 02:10:07 am
he looks like he's happy just prancing around! you shouldnt have him with is legs open so long. they should move continuously. the foot's movement is acctually somewhat like a bean shaped trajectory.

this is a bit disney-like but its good non the less
http://lyle.smu.edu/~alcantara/walkcycle/walk_2_legs(side).gif

if he was running in place, like your character, you could see that the frame when he has both legs up, the back leg is starting to go up and the front leg is going to hit the ground
while in your run cycle, both legs are going up and down at the same time when they open.

edit: 200th post! woot
Image size doesn't matter! It's what you do with your pixels that counts!

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #95 on: October 29, 2008, 02:17:52 am
I just kinda' thought that he would have to take large, heavy, segmented steps when holding a big hammer.
Edit: actually I think I'll just replace the run with a short dash.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2008, 02:36:00 am by Tuna Unleashed »

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #96 on: October 29, 2008, 01:23:13 pm

Offline Atnas

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #97 on: October 29, 2008, 07:16:14 pm
I just kinda' thought that he would have to take large, heavy, segmented steps when holding a big hammer.
Edit: actually I think I'll just replace the run with a short dash.

:mean: what

Don't avoid the walkcycle! I think if you made him walk, and then try the run it'd help. From the looks of him I'd expect him to step-plant-step-plant rather slowly. His run would be more horizontal motion than verticle motion with more force behind each step. Think of physics. The more mass, the more force you need to overcome the mass' inertia.

Of course, if you really want him to take bunny hops, no one is stopping you, it just seems rather strange for such a brawny character with a humongous hammer.

Offline The B.O.B.

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #98 on: October 29, 2008, 07:59:07 pm


   I agree. The way he is walking or hopping, does nothing for his 1950's greaser look(if the greaser look is intentional). I woulda' thought a greaser would have a more cool, strut with his walk. Even if he is carrying a giant hammer. A lot of things I'm seeing here just make no sense AT ALL. The anatomy, the physics, movement, style choices and not to mention, what's with the latest animation? How did the greaser all the sudden gain the ability to turn into an energy ball? I must say, I'm extremely confused now...
my back hurts...

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #99 on: October 29, 2008, 10:12:26 pm
I dunno, I was just thinking since its like a thunder hammer he'd be able to do crazy stuff with thunder.

Offline TrevoriuS

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #100 on: October 30, 2008, 12:11:12 am
So you basically didn't plan out anything and now make something up along the way to avoid diong something such as a running animation? Hehe, well it does look like you have a lack of plan on where you wish to go with this.

Offline CaKsTeR

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #101 on: October 30, 2008, 12:20:27 am
You know, it could just have been some sort of special "dash" power.

Would be cool  :P

Offline Destiny

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #102 on: October 30, 2008, 12:28:12 am
He never said he made it to avoid doing a walking cycle, all he stated was that it could be an ability relating to thunder and hammers :V

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #103 on: October 30, 2008, 01:17:25 am
Trevor- so I can't change my plans? It wasn't that I was avoiding a run cycle, its just that when I thought it through you couldn't really run while holding a hammer that big.

Also, hurt pose
« Last Edit: October 30, 2008, 01:19:07 am by Tuna Unleashed »

Offline Destiny

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #104 on: October 30, 2008, 01:33:17 am
He looks as though hes dancing. Maybe copy kirby and to like one pose hit poses? Except with several different ones of them?

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #105 on: October 30, 2008, 01:51:06 am
That's just 'cause its looping. Slight update.

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #106 on: October 31, 2008, 11:12:59 pm

Offline Jad

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #107 on: November 01, 2008, 07:28:19 pm
Haha, I just had to pop in to say that the lightning flash looks really awesome, you seem to have that special effects gene working for you!

I do, though, find it a bit weird how he just transforms into the bolt; without even leaping into it/no pose change at all. It makes it look slightly like he's teleported by some other force than his own.

Also, don't hesitate to try and continue to improve his run; I really think you could learn a lot from it! I'll be back with more critique later O:
' _ '

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #108 on: November 03, 2008, 11:44:52 pm

Offline rabidbaboy

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #109 on: November 04, 2008, 02:55:58 am
It looks like he's taking a step forward and then taking that same step back.

tbh, I have this problem with animating walk cycles too.
"Baboy" is Filipino for pig.

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #110 on: November 06, 2008, 12:56:36 am

Offline Andre

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #111 on: November 06, 2008, 03:50:27 am
You need to slide the front feet until it reaches the back position showing the intermediate phase between both...when both steps stay together in the middle and finally you can see the back step in the next frame( with a dark shade ) as well as the front step with more highlights.

The "bug" effect is due to the abscence of this intermediate phase in my concept.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2008, 03:52:02 am by Andre »

Offline Sherman Gill

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #112 on: November 06, 2008, 04:47:46 am
Auuugh get rid of the segmented highlights in one of those legs! Better yet, make it so the back leg is always dark and the closer leg is always light. Right now when they look like the same leg when they pass eachother.
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Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #113 on: November 06, 2008, 01:25:38 pm

Offline Destiny

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #114 on: November 06, 2008, 01:29:21 pm
The two bottom feet look the exact same. Its hard to see the switch, it just looks like hes twitching one foot back and forth.

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #115 on: November 07, 2008, 12:30:29 am

Offline Souly

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #116 on: November 07, 2008, 01:10:40 am
12 frames? come on.
Get rid of the shading on the closest leg when it goes forward, it makes no sense.
What is going on with his arms does he not have elbows?

Offline Andre

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #117 on: November 07, 2008, 04:45:32 am
Keep just one side with the sky blue and the back lag always dark...aswell as keep the moment flows on all positions, including the intermadiate phase:
did an arm example once that shall work for you:



3 phases on movement: Front - Middle and Back.

Observer: Watching a walking model by it's side...so that we can realize that:
The back arm is always dark
The front arm is always brighter ( to make a deeph sense )

Remember to attempt all the phases watching yourself out with colors ;)
see ya

Offline TrevoriuS

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #118 on: November 07, 2008, 01:09:04 pm
The path for a leg or arm moving foreward, is different than when it moves backwards. If it is unclear which is going into which direction ,their paths are too similar, and you lack definition or certain keyframes.

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #119 on: November 07, 2008, 01:53:35 pm
its just that when I thought it through you couldn't really run while holding a hammer that big.

Maybe the guy could run without hammer and the hammer would reappear in a thunderbolt when needed next ?
So you'd have to chose in-game whether you're going to run (and suffer an extra delay before you can hit again) or just stay safe and walk that huge hammer around.

And if you go for "hammer appearing in a thunderbolt", ... then maybe that's Thor's hammer, after all ?
(btw, it might not be realistic to have such a long and thin handle for such a huge hammer)

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #120 on: November 07, 2008, 02:27:06 pm
Whoa, good idea. Thanks, i'll probably go with that. But now I don't know how to incorporate the dash. Oh well, I'll figure something out. Thanks.

Offline straypixels

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #121 on: November 07, 2008, 08:37:32 pm
Hey Tuna,

I made a little sloppy edit to give you an idea of how to help out the animation:



I cut a couple of the frames that only moved a pixel or two, and then added in a new one to bridge the gap between your current frame 5 and 6. I also took out the highlight from the back leg so it's more quickly discernible which was which. Hopefully that helps. You've come a _long_ way from the original version. Excellent job, man :)
Straying since 1999

Offline Andre

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #122 on: November 08, 2008, 03:39:42 pm
exactly model of what I said ;D

Offline QuaziGNRLnose

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #123 on: November 08, 2008, 03:51:55 pm
http://www.idleworm.com/how/anm/02w/walk1.shtml

CONTACT, RECOIL, PASSING and HIGH-POINT.


this helps alot
Originally posted by Jeff

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Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #124 on: November 10, 2008, 05:27:49 am
So should I be doing this to the walking too, or does this only apply to the pushing frames?

Offline rabidbaboy

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #125 on: November 10, 2008, 10:42:09 am
How come only his right foot has the recoil part?
Coming along nicely.
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Offline Andre

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #126 on: November 10, 2008, 03:12:07 pm
Tuna, this is the basic walking movement, you should keep the shading ( that you made right this time  :P ) And fix the plant-recoil movement.
In the proper walking animation you sould make the same process but this time envolving the arms shoulders and belly(if you might want to make it more perfect )
Huge advances from the first post, I'm amazed  :o My congratulations for what you've got so far ;)

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #127 on: November 10, 2008, 03:44:20 pm
So apply all the stuff in the pushing to the walking? M'kay. Here's the last(?) update to the push.

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #128 on: November 10, 2008, 03:55:25 pm
« Last Edit: November 10, 2008, 04:37:37 pm by Tuna Unleashed »

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #129 on: November 10, 2008, 05:39:40 pm

Offline aregon810

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #130 on: November 10, 2008, 06:40:58 pm
I'm not that pro but here is my CC

On the portrait,

I dont like it much becouse you can put way more detail on portrait, you can use other colours + more colours i think. + your shade is a bit off,

also you drew the ear from another positon than you did on the head,
The hair is also a bit wierd becouse the hear wich stand up is on the left of his head should be in the midle or the whole (dont know you got this + you can put more detail on the hair)
also HIS right shoulder is a bit to short i think and should be larger his left one is okey

I do like the character its good as far as i can see (ask the beter people for that ;)

btw: dont dubble post? (you triple post and posted one like  11minuts from another one (just edit)?

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #131 on: November 10, 2008, 07:50:59 pm
That is a really old version of the portrait, I have a much better version done.

Offline aregon810

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #132 on: November 10, 2008, 08:03:28 pm
why you post it that if you dont want cc on it and if its a old version -_-''  (just to bump?)

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #133 on: November 10, 2008, 08:22:40 pm
Because I'm still not done editing. Oh, and sorry about the double posting. I'm used to it working differently on other forums. I'll try to stop.

Offline Jad

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #134 on: November 10, 2008, 08:39:04 pm
I personally have no problems with you doublepostbumping your own thread as long as the new post contains updates, heh.

So no real probs there; I'd rather see new stuff from you than NOT seeing you edit your last post with new art, heh.
' _ '

Offline Helm

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #135 on: November 10, 2008, 08:46:09 pm
I don't mind the postbumping, but there is question of having gotten very very valid critique and not having tried to apply it as far as I can tell...

Offline Andre

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #136 on: November 10, 2008, 09:27:01 pm
Yeah, Help got a right point out there...rabidbaboy already told you about the recoiling of his left foot ( the front one for us ) when he lift his foot it's not fluid as the right foot
make this fix keeping the light of it :D Make the same edit to the walking animations ;D

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #137 on: November 10, 2008, 10:16:48 pm
Okay, I'll try to apply more stuff. Oh, and I just realized that I actually did post the new version of the portrait but imageshack was dead for me for a bit and I apparently forgot. *awkward laugh*

better?
« Last Edit: November 10, 2008, 11:08:04 pm by Tuna Unleashed »

Offline Andre

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #138 on: November 11, 2008, 12:36:31 am
Yeah now it's acceptable  :mean:( nahh it's fine   ;) )
Keep go'n, maybe some enemies? or jump animations? :D

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #139 on: November 11, 2008, 02:15:37 am
For this guy, all I have left to do is his running, ducking, crawling, and attacks.

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #140 on: November 11, 2008, 09:10:00 am
a bit of AA in the hammer could be nice, especially to break banding.

Otherwise, i suggest a simple attack and a default foe first. That would setup the environment of the story and could give more hint on further gameplay (and thus required animations). E.g. is he more likely to duck or climb ladders ...

As for the jump, you used to make him jump with the hammer near his head, while i'd rather guess the hammer to be near his feet, due to its weight.

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #141 on: November 11, 2008, 03:20:29 pm
The hammer is only near his head on the way back down, because momentum or something would pull it up there.

But AA eh? Okay.

Edit: updated the first post
« Last Edit: November 11, 2008, 03:53:24 pm by Tuna Unleashed »

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #142 on: November 11, 2008, 11:58:44 pm
Thanks to the thrice accursed .png format, I was forced to do this twice.

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #143 on: November 12, 2008, 12:50:42 am
Shouldn't that hair spike turn with the rest of his head?

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #144 on: November 12, 2008, 02:00:15 am

Offline Helm

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #145 on: November 12, 2008, 02:31:17 am
See you're still doing it. Someone gives you critique and you post your new animation as an answer. We don't really need to see everything you make every day. Leave something for the game itself. The critique you've been given still stands. Your characters are noodly and the structure and anatomy of the face needs a lot of study, but instead of looking to fix these things and better yourself as an artist in this way you commited to the character and made 30 animations for him.

This isn't a board where people post their sprites with the primary function being getting praise and amazement from your peers. We're here to help you, not just watch as you make more and more art. I mean, it's great you're productive of course, but it's frustrating to take a communicational platform like this and just render all the readers as merely viewers.

Offline Tuna Unleashed

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #146 on: November 12, 2008, 02:46:42 am
I'm not trying to. I just miss some things. Also, the term 'noodly' has always eluded me. I never know if people mean that it is curvy or needs more detail or what. It's like if someone said that the guy's head was biscuity. The only reason I started making animations was that I was under the impression that people thought it was acceptable.

One last thing, believe me when I say I definitely prefer intelligent critique over blind praise. The praise definitely gives me a nice feeling but the critique allows me to make it better, which I think is more important.

Offline Helm

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #147 on: November 12, 2008, 02:56:05 am
To be honest, I wouldn't think it's safe to move forward with animating, before reconsidering your characters stance, and style. If I were a gamer, I'd probably walk away from this one, by the looks of it..



   Other left out points include how the hammer is being held, and how it and the character don't seem to coexist at all. This is especially evident in the animations you've already begun, and in my opinion, needs fixing. The last attack animation you've posted is basically showing my point, in that the character is making minimal movement, where as the hammer is moving every 2-3 frames for every 1 frame of the character himself. Remember, when using a weapon like this, a character's movement is just as vital as the weapon's movement. In which case, you've got some unnatural things going on.
   Now I'm not ragging on you or anything, I'm just not a fan of this style of art by young gamers who don't seem to understand real life physics and jump head first into projects like this without taking it into consideration. Hope this helps a little, and good luck!

This post was gold. You need to study anatomy. Acceptable it may or may not be according to your standards. If you're happy with how it looks yourself, then that's fine. If you want to get better, you need to work on your anatomy.

Offline TrevoriuS

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #148 on: November 12, 2008, 09:43:05 am
You were told from the start to learn anatomy and adapt your sprite to that, instead you went on and started animating, The anatomy isn't necessarily that bothersome to me, his torso's a bit too long and the legs too short, but at this small scale it gets... acceptable for me. For the large portrait you do need much more anatomy study.

Either way, if you do it or not, your animations lack any sense of weight. The hammer is big and heavy, and he walks as if dragging it, but then the hammer is placed as if he's got it all lifted and just holds it behind him, completely not in order to what the legs are doing. Then comes the attack. Have you ever even ehard of the term 'anticipation'? Use it!

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Re: WIP guy with hammer

Reply #149 on: November 12, 2008, 11:23:49 am


I took some of your frames and i'll try to show where anatomy is going off here. Imho, the first picture (during the walk animation) renders nicely, good proportions of legs and torso for that fairly complex pose and arms are partly hidden from this viewpoint, so that's okay to me.

Now, if you at other pictures, you'll notice that you keep the "belt-line" (orange/yellow transition) at the same height and even lower even when legs are more extended than on that first picture. In other terms, his legs shorten as he moves.
Second point is with the torso himself that was interesting and muscular during the walk and surprisingly get stiff and pipe-shaped on frames 3 and 4. Plus, he raised his head and stands straight, but is barely a few pixels higher than during the "crouching walk with hammer" (yellow/green line).

Finally, and i think that's what makes him "noodly" from time to time, you're not rendering the joints. that's especially obvious on frames 3+4 where it looks like legs are vertically attached to his torso and bend like waterpipes to attach vertically to his feet. Instead, insist on the fact that hips rotate when someone's moving like this: we should really see his back and his revolver pockets on that last frame. Also insist on the fact that our muscles get thicker when we bend limbs. You've been cheating with the shoulders too and the end of animation where both arms have disappeared and the hammer still move just doesn't make it (even swinging a golf club would make you move more than this).

I'd suggest you to work on a "standing straight" pose that would reflect the *lengths* of frame 1 (not the height) as a first step, and then draw something like 3 (still) keyframes for your hammering animation to work those anatomy-related issues.