Plotting Revenge

[Helm]

Hello. I started making a new piece as of late. It's tallpixelled! Crazy!

current wip:



steps one, two, three, four, five, six, seven.

Here's the drawing it's based on.



The changes of the facial characteristics are intended as you can't really do those sharp lines as well in tallpixels.

I will be working on this pretty hardcore until it's done, so crit away while it's still at an early stage!

I am aiming at an end of 32 colors.

[skw]

In the pixel piece you kind of changed the way he looks and that's pretty cool -- the face stylization reminds me of some old Amiga games.  As for the critique, his hands appear yet too vague, that rectangular sheath stands out a bit (the contours are quite no-no, but that probably has something to do with the killer restrictions) and there's something wrong with his right elbow.  Great highlights!

Keep on pumping, it shows promise!  I'm looking forward to seeing more of this!

[Salvage]

Moody piece! Interesting tallpixel format.
The converging hands form some very complicated finger shapes.
I think maybe treating the fingers more as solid tones, rather than outlined, will help differentiate them better.
Lighter tones for fingers in front, overlapping darker tones for fingers behind.
I like the sketch.
What is going on in step six?

[Froli]

First thing that strikes me odd was the sword's cross guard. It feels it's a bit bended in the wrong way specially how the scabbard is highlighted.. (then again this is a wip, you probably have seen this already)

Maybe you can push it towards that direction? It's not perfect but I hope you get what I mean

Awesome stuff

[Helm]

That's it for tonight I think.

Thanks for the critique, most stuff will be addressed as this moves forward.

Salvage, step six is where I made the pixels square so I could use the line tool for a bit to draw some straights. Now it's back to tallpixells and it's made... one tall pixel at a time :I

[Bouzolf]

Noob question: How do you switch from tall to square so easily? Thanks. 

[Helm]

In cosmigo pro motion I take the single-pixel brush and I double it's Y width, and then I place it in the brush container for reuse. Then I make a snapgrid that is x=1, y=2 and I use the freehand tool (not continuous) and that's pretty much it.

[Turbo]

Looking pretty interesting. Some thoughts:
The red on the collar is so intensely saturated in contrast with the surrounding colors, it throws everything else around it away, stealing the eye's attention.
I'd seriously reconsider sticking with the original facial features, they're more original and interesting. The latter looks like your usual "bad guy" face
Those hands are going to be complicated... right now where the fingers entangle, they're a bit confusing (and have been so since the original concept).
Arm anatomy - see if you agree with this edit:

(mostly making the muscles follow the forearm twist, ignore my adding mass or definition, i know you're not going for that. Also, check my shoulder/collarbone construction).
For some reason, i find the shaded part of his left inner thigh really interesting to look at, like it has lots of depth...

[gamingjustin]

Lookin' good, but I notice his jaw is jutting forward by a bit. You put a lot of work into his face so it's probably the way your guy is shaped, but to me it looks like he has sort of a quarter moon-shaped head (the top half of his head looks tilted down, but his jaw area could easily fit on a head that is just slouched not titled). So perhaps move the chin in just a little bit. 

[Salvage]

wait, this is lens distortion right?
cause otherwise i'm starting to feel that the feet/legs are pretty large.
the frontmost foot, even though foreshortened, is as long as the forearm.
with that kind of distortion, maybe the head should be smaller?

[Helm]

I should be sleeping.

[Salvage]

loving the violets in the fingers and the red in the scabbard.
careful of different hand sizes.
meassuring palm to middle finger, i see a marked disparity.

[Dusty]

For some reason the guard looks like it has different angle than the scabbard. I think perhaps the guard should be a lot less horizontally visible, and visibly in front of the daggers.

[saimo]

It's tallpixelled

Heh, feeling nostalgic of Amiga's HIRES?

Looks very nice and promising, however - please don't think about beefcake-distorded view - again I feel that the arms are a tad too skinny. Shoulders, moreover, do not look exactly right: the right one looks a bit too flat (something's seems to be wrong with its volume) and the left one too bent forward.
As always, well, that's just my inexpert opinion...

saimo

[Ryumaru]

i think the arms look fine after you took into account turbo's critique, very skinny, yes - but we all have our idealizations. Do you plan for a background?

[Helm]

Yeah, darkened tavern. Edge of a table, a spilt tankard of beer, perhaps some garlic in the background! Don't get too excited though, it'll mostly be from-darkness-arises-small-moodsetting-detail.

[Ryumaru]

Well that still sounds pretty enticing to me : D
( you should fit the yus bird on a tree branch in a broken window : o)

[Helm]

Still working on the rendering. Various small fixes.

[Dusty]

Still think even that guard needs to be drawn in front of the daggers, or the angle of the scabbard changed.

[Sherman Gill]

New sword hilt and the daggers are groovy
Face is a bit angular for my taste, though, and- this is my main problem with the piece -the red on the shirt seems out of place. It looks like it'd be trim for some super-fancy nobleman's platemail, not some bastard swordsman scum, which is what I presume this guy is. I think you should go with... a cheaper color and maybe less rigid fabric. Something more appropriate for the time and person?

[Helm]

Oh and I realise I have to answer to a lot of this points so here's hugereply:

Turbo: this is as far I am going to go with tweaking the anatomy I think. This isn't an anatomy study, body language is paramount and therefore I enjoy the slightly Klimtian distended limbs. However that arm rotation was indeed wrong and I tried to address this without two drastic jumps towards superhero-arm-definitions. How do you think it worked?

gamingjustin: I don't see any problem with the jaw really?

Salvage, what do you mean lens distortion? A traditional count of limb sizes here (one of which I am capable of) is a bit amiss given what I am going for. I however tried to normalize the hand lengths. Are they alright now?

Dusty: if anything I will finalize the scabbard angle when I work at it proper. I think the guard is good as it is now. I don't have an issue with the priority between knives and sword though. I do understand it can be done in more obvious ways but then again, why go with the obvious? I have to trust my initial intuition for things such as this otherwise the piece starts to become bland. Viewer-friendliness isn't a big concern as is emotional resonance.

saimo: yeah this is like the amiga res but let's look at what really inspired this piece! It is a more unlikely source!

http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/menzoberranzan/screenshots/gameShotId,193462/
http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/menzoberranzan/screenshots/gameShotId,193464/
http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/menzoberranzan/screenshots/gameShotId,193467/

These are all vga colors, but widepixels for a fake high-res done without an svga card! I really REALLY like the art in this game and therefore wanted to try nonsquare pixels without any other color restrictions (well I always want a sensible color count, but I didn't want a pool or initial restricted colors). So I was thinking of this, and then I thought about Lazur's crazy amiga mode pieces and I settled with high-res tallpixels. I really like it thus far because at 1x zoom there are actual details and stuff but at 3x zoom or about there everything just gets lost, it becomes a mosaic of strange tesselated shapes and I find it appealing to not be able to tell what something is microscopically but holistically to be immediately able to recognize.

The arms: yeah, I don't think he needs any more definition. These are definitely not skinny. Again, sorry, but... beefcake.

This is skinny but servicable muscle :



This is athletic build.



And this is beefcake



I am trying to hit something between first and second. Malnutritioned, but still serviceable muscle built out of repeatedly hacking people to death, not calisthenics.


About the red on the shirt: debating in my head. I'd love to hear more opinions. I think it's good to break out of the samecoloredness of the greens everywhere. I could actually cut a lot of colors away from the palette if I killed it but I think it would REALLY miss out.

[Dusty]

Dusty: if anything I will finalize the scabbard angle when I work at it proper. I think the guard is good as it is now. I don't have an issue with the priority between knives and sword though. I do understand it can be done in more obvious ways but then again, why go with the obvious? I have to trust my initial intuition for things such as this otherwise the piece starts to become bland. Viewer-friendliness isn't a big concern as is emotional resonance.

Well I don't have a problem with priority at all, just the fact that the sword and scabbard are both being drawn at completely different angles. While the scabbard seems to be facing more towards the viewer, the sword/guard is facing more towards the left/right. I think that is more important, just my suggestion of the guard(not the scabbard) being drawn in front of the dagger would help match the perspective between the sword and the scabbard. Though that wouldn't be a fix in itself.

[Salvage]

hands are fine, i thought you might still be resolving the gesture, but they work in this posture.
with the large lower half, i reckoned maybe you were presenting a forced perspective of the kind that is seen with 28mm lens distortion:

in which case the head would taper off more as perspective forced it smaller.
never mind though if that is not your goal.
i think his build is just fine.
if he gets any more athletic, perhaps consider a tankard of powerade instead of beer.
everyone's favorite peoplehacker should endorse with the best of them.

[Helm]

Oh no there's no harsh third point perspective here! I hope it works without it if you can force your brain to see it now without it

[Salvage]

tryyyyyyyiiiiiiiiiiiiing. i see how it works, i guess he is just pedally well endowed.

[Helm]

I might make the soles of the feet a bit smaller next update. Thanks!

[Willows]

Crit fighter!

Haha, I kid. I'd like to jump on the "arms too thin!" boat, though. Specifically above his right elbow. It gets almost as thin as his wrist, there, annnnnnnnd that's not accurate, I don't think. In the event that you disagree, would you mind myself striking this pose as best I can and gettin' some mug to take a picture of me as more direct reference, or would that distort your artistic image too much? I may very well be wrong, a direct reference would be a good comparison. I just don't want to... iunno. Upset your inner chi. Or something.

Also, have you ever experimented with ridiculous exaggeration of ideas, just to see how far you can push them before they break? The idea here can be found easily enough, but it's not unmistakably clear.

His pants look awesome, as does his face... as does most of this piece. I look forward to seeing the final piece

[Helm]

Not much time today but I did start on the background

[Kren]

Not much time today but I did start on the background

hmm since the start I have seen this really dark :/.

[Ryumaru]

My opinion is don't get rid of the red. I like the bg so far aswell : D

[HughSpectrum]

This piece gives me a bit of a Native American vibe, which is why the red seems to be working because Native Americans are known for having colorful details in their clothing.

[Andre]

Totally agreed with KittenMaster there...

The garlicks on the backgroud were very well thought and designed gratz

[gamingjustin]

It's just personal preference, I think. My eyes want to move the chin in, is all. So, it's just a suggestion and I at least had fun defiling your art, Helm!

[Salvage]

loving the design of the background, it really pulls the perspective together to my eye for some reason.
a little confused about the light source though.
what is the direction and type of light?
i'm begining to really feel for this mofo, i can see the wheels turning: "they spilt my ale, they shall die"

[skw]

→

Just a small palette suggestion.  Reminds me of the Credits panel of Diablo.

[TomF]

I agree with that edit, the background was just a little too dark before.

[skamocore]

One nitpick I have is *his* right knee...it looks a bit weird and blocky especially compared to his other knee.

[Kazuya Mochu]

that's jaw dropping render quality.
excelente work man, very very impressive!

I have to say I did like the sketch almost as much as I like your pixel piece.

hope to see more!

Kaz

[Turbo]

Turbo: this is as far I am going to go with tweaking the anatomy I think. This isn't an anatomy study, body language is paramount and therefore I enjoy the slightly Klimtian distended limbs. However that arm rotation was indeed wrong and I tried to address this without two drastic jumps towards superhero-arm-definitions. How do you think it worked?

All good, you could go even further in reducing muscle definition and mass. Although it's not very clear what the dark lines are near the lighter areas of the biceps and deltoid. Scars? "Stylish" shading?
His left shoulder and arm should be sent a bit further to the background by means of darkening its shades. Also, i think the shoulder should be placed at an above spot.

An edit where i try to go closer to your original sketch, and bring out more that subtle emotion you put in the eyes, while keeping it subtly. Also, shoulder/arm crit.



I still enjoy the rendering and coloring on the pants most on the piece The boots also look stylish, with the red engravings (don't know a better term for the red pattern thing).

Just a tip: given the extreme-ish perspective on the lower body, the upper body could follow it as well, seems to follow different perspective. You could try changing the head perspective in a way we'd almost see the underneath of his jaw (yeah, pretty extreme change that would be!).

johny's palette edit looks interesting, and the background becomes more readable.

[Helm]

Slowly tolling on the rendering.

Turbo: Thank you for the edit. I considered darkening the other arm considerably towards the start of rendering but I do not think its position warrants it anymore. The face edit is quite good (besides the eyes, which really can't reflect any light at this position/resolution I think) and I will ponder on whether I will commit to such a change. On one hand I gain likeness, on the other I damage the expression slightly. We shall see.


edit: gah! I pinned this by mistake. Fixed now.

[Feron]

is it so bad that i think i'm in love with you, if not at least this piece?

may i ask where the light source is?

also i might add, i don't get an angry spiteful revenge-plotting vibe from this piece, more of a american-indian meditational fel 

[Malor]

      To me, since the spiteful, brooding character is lit up so vibrantly, I think the background should be brighter, or a small light source that the character is huddling around, like a candle, or a lamp, should be put in, although that would require a rather severe change in the colors used on the character, which may be too much work for the end result. Really a small thing over all, but I just think it wouldn't be bad to think about it. As it is, I'm really enjoying watching this progress, looking forward to the finish. 

[Andre]

Totally agreed with Malor, some moonlight through a window would be the best fit but indeed it's a big work, really =/
Let's see where it's gonna end

[Helm]

Barring nitpickery, this is pretty much done. Final thoughts? I am not so much interested in 'oh, move that pixel once to the left' at this stage but more if it resonates if it achieves something emotionally.

32 colors, I think the final palette is a good one.

Feron: the lightsource is from above, as to what the actual emitter is, symbolic.

Malor: consider the implication of the opposite. Of a fierily bright character on a shrinking darkening world. Think of how little you'd care for the outside world if you were 'plotting revenge'. Besides playing with cool lightsources there are other issues to consider.

[Rosse]

Hello Helm, great piece of art. Some minor things which comes to my mind.

* The knob of the sword is too bright and contrasty imho, which means it has got too much attention. I lowered the contast and value in Photoshop and I thought it's a good change. I'm pretty sure it's correctly rendered considered by the lightsource, but it's too eye-catching currently.

* The shoes looks to simplified for my taste. It's kind of a detail-level clash. Maybe adding some small details like seams or heavier folds? But not high contrast, just subtle.

[Helm]

Both good points. I'll get to them right now.

[Helm]

How about this? I enjoyed putting a bit more red down there so it works better.

[pawelotti]

It looks really awesome, but I think the right knee of this guy looks like square, shouldn't it be more spherical?

[Rosse]

Good changes. The knob is okay value-like I think. The shoes are great, I like the idea with the red shoelaces. I'm not sure about the red spot on his right (image left side) shoe. Is it blood or text? If it's text I've got the feeling that the characters doesn't follow the surface properly. For blood the rest of his outfit's too clean or if it would be coagulated it should be darker. The two dark single pixels on both shoes looks too random. At first look I thought they were stray pixels. Maybe it would work if they were brighter and bigger to suggest studs or something similar.

[Helm]

(it's blood)



Addressed your points, did a million miniscule changes in aa and such and gave it a bit of a nice border so the surrounding pixelation earthtone doesn't suck the color out of it. Shall we call it?

[tocky]

I think that it needs a little more light in some central segment of the background.

[Malor]

An interesting metaphor there, Helm. I always love a good subtle metaphor in a piece.

[Destiny]

I dont know why, but his knee cap (this one <<<<) seems really out of place for some reason.

[gamingjustin]

Very effective final palette; thoughtful piece overall. It makes the old one look like he was lit under a florescent bulb. The tallpixels give it a very rustic, gritty computer-graphic feel and it fits the subject. Also, since it was tallpixeled I had to do this...

Fake scanline edition:

[Helm]

Hah! That's absolutely amazing, gamingjustin! Thanks

I call this finished. Thank you all for posting to help me, I really appreciate it.

[Andre]

Let me tell you...the jeans were perfectly designed, I'm stunned