AuthorTopic: [WIP] (Nudity) Female character base slightly elevated view (not 3/4 anymore)  (Read 27784 times)

Offline Helm

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Re: [WIP] (Nudity) Female character base 3/4 top down view

Reply #20 on: September 14, 2008, 08:55:37 pm
Let's talk about lineart then. What you have going in your latest version



Is a vast improvement over the first one you did. However, there is an issue: Phantasy Star (and games of that kind) don't really have 3/4 top down sprites. They have straight front sprites. Let's look at phantasy star 4.



(random image I captured from where I am in my current playthrough. I love this game.

Sideways with floppy feet (which I don't particularily like). There are reasons this game does this, and I suggest you do similarily.

Here's my edit



Forget trying to fake some depth in there. Instead give the iconic front view more space to be a character. The second frame of the animation explains basic contraposto, is it clear what I am doing there?

Offline Ryumaru

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Re: [WIP] (Nudity) Female character base 3/4 top down view

Reply #21 on: September 15, 2008, 01:42:57 am
Helm: your edits are obviously giving the character alot of life, but I feel that all that effort may be a bit wasted. If you were playing the game, how long would you be looking at the standing idle sprite before moving into a direction that would eliminate that asymetric pose? ( you are a bad example because your a pixel artist, and we look at that stuff alot :P but a normal gamer will probably be more interested in walking around than staring at pixel art)
Beoran: Your newest lineart is wonderful,  but why don't you do more with your colors? you have 4 colors for the skin, you can do alot with that. I could make an edit but both Ryona's and Froli's edits have done a wonderful job of showing depth and form.

Offline Helm

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Re: [WIP] (Nudity) Female character base 3/4 top down view

Reply #22 on: September 15, 2008, 02:09:14 am
All the little bits count. The player might not digest these things consciously, but subconsciously all the little bits of character add up to a lively experience. And you look at such standing still sprites a lot in jrpgs while you mess around with equipment and status screens etc.

Offline Ryumaru

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Re: [WIP] (Nudity) Female character base 3/4 top down view

Reply #23 on: September 15, 2008, 03:36:59 am
I guess "wasted" would obviously not be the best term to use because I agree that all those little bits count. If there were to be equipment and status screens maybe then a single sprite that would have a very different posed could be made? Seeing as how this sprite is a base, I wouldn't see the point of giving it character which would then give all female characters the same... character. If you're going to add character, do it individually maybe?

Offline Beoran

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Re: [WIP] (Nudity) Female character base 3/4 top down view

Reply #24 on: September 15, 2008, 12:25:38 pm
Yes, well, Helm, when I said "Phantasy Star 4 style" I was talking the general skill level, not the exact detail. ^_^;;; also, I hope to either evolve to a level close to what you see in the first reference image I posted, but that's probably for later.  Especially because my game will have 32x64 sprites as compared to the much smaller (16x32?) Phantasy Star 4 sprites. The reasons I want to do the sprites in 3/4 view is because this is something that kind of irks me in top down games: the walls, surroundings, plants, etc are all in 3/4 but the sprites are not. Still, I love top-down games regardless. ^_^

So here are my two main questions, and I hope they don' t sound silly to you. You say there's a good reason for going flat over 3/4 for sprites, because it increases the expressiveness of the sprite? But why is that?  I really don't see how a flat sprite is better than one with a fake perspective? Or is this for educational reasons? And I'm also wondering why you are making the head more square? I guess PS4 does it because of low resolution, but should I do the same? Does it offer better possibilities with the hair or other facial expressions?

But, I do see where you are going with the contraposito, by creating "assymmetry in a balanced" way the sprite looks more "alive" and human. I can easily see how a weapon, like a sword or spear would fit perfectly in the hand, and look as if it could be used to strike. Such a contraposito is definitely something I'd consider for the main character, as opposed to a mere base which I would use foremost for testing and for plain NPC's. By the way. I also plan to have correct assymetry for right-facing and left facing sprites, at least for how the weapon is rendered. No such nonsense like the sprite facing right and having the weapon in the right hand, and then facing left and having the weapon in the left hand. At the very least, I'll render the weapon behind the sprite when facing left in the case of a right-handed character.

Anyway, thanks, this is really interesting. ^_^
Kind Regards, Beoran.

Offline Tobe

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Re: [WIP] (Nudity) Female character base 3/4 top down view

Reply #25 on: September 16, 2008, 06:54:31 pm
Geez, I'm learning a lot reading all the stuff here. I hope those that drop by don't just skip, seeing the long read ;)
Ryona, Froli and Helm edit look so fantastic and readable. I can even see the whole knee structure and how she's clenching the fist.

Anyway, hope you guys don't mind me jumping into the discussion. I think some of the possible reason for aborting the 3/4 look is because having a flat sprites means more space for their expressions. When you see everything top down, most actions becomes a lot more subtle. And also, viewers often recognize/focus characters from their head and face ( I have a feeling it's also why super deform characters were used in RPG back then). Going 3/4 top down, player are going to be staring at their hair. Top view will also means that character's proportions will be distorted and harder for viewer to recognize.

As an illustrator myself, I rather go for things that looks nice instead of things don't, but just "correct" in real life ;)



Offline Beoran

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Re: [WIP] (Nudity) Female character base 3/4 top down view

Reply #26 on: September 16, 2008, 09:00:40 pm
Well, Tobe, that's an argument I can somewhat understand. So perhaps I won't go for a full 3/4 view, more like a "slightly elevated view" as my sprite was called before. I think it should be possible to also emphasize the face in that way.
Kind Regards, Beoran.

Offline Beoran

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Re: [WIP] (Nudity) Female character base 3/4 top down view

Reply #27 on: September 23, 2008, 06:24:39 pm
Update:


For this one, I tried my hand at shading it anyway, because I decided to up my my art goal to better than PS4, not equal to it. I realized that I need one more color for the body colors to pull this off, namely an "inline color", making a total of five, not four colors. Before I was using outline and inline together, which gives huge problems in defining the neck, breasts, etc.

I'm quite content with the general look of this one, It has the style I like and not too much shading (which I tend to dislike). I can't think of any way to improve it, except maybe the palette, as I tried many changes already that didn't improve anything, but if someone has more hints, I'd love to hear them. :)

Oh yes, and it's not asymmetrical in pose, but it is in shading. I wanted to keep my base easy to add clothes on whilst simultaneously adding a little bit more "extra" to it.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2008, 06:26:25 pm by Beoran »
Kind Regards, Beoran.

Offline Helm

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Re: [WIP] (Nudity) Female character base 3/4 top down view

Reply #28 on: September 23, 2008, 07:27:12 pm
This is much better! The speculars on the breasts would be near the center of their mass, not at the ridges of the portrusions. Also you're banding a little (in the pelvis area or in the neck shadow area) , do you know what banding is? Search on the forums if not. Your sprite lacks a full value range also, is this intentional?

You're making great progress though.

Offline Beoran

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Re: [WIP] (Nudity) Female character base 3/4 top down view

Reply #29 on: September 24, 2008, 06:45:43 am


I took a look at this reference, and indeed, the highlights are next to the nipples, and also in the cleavage:
http://media1.break.com/dnet/media/2007/6/26jun08-perfect-breasts.jpg

So I adjusted my highlights. I looked up "banding", and I tried to remove it from my sprite, but I'm
not too sure I caught it. When I looked at the Santa Claus you edited, I could see the improvement, but not quite grasp
how you did it. Also, it's more easy to see banding in other people's art than in my own, I guess. :p



As for the colors, I don't like colors with a too low value, as I don't want it to look too dark. I kind of disliked the dark feel of the colors of Ryona's edit. Also, I'll be swapping the palette, so what is most important is the range of contrast. I made a grayscale above, and it kind of looks OK. Or perhaps my mid-shadow is a bit to similar to my "normal" color?  Anyway, if you have a suggestion for a palette edit, I'd love to see it. :)



Kind Regards, Beoran.