[WIP, Some Nudity] Now heyy13's Art Dump ~ UPDATED 21/10/08

[heyy13]

This is now my art dump for things i'm working on and want crits for. Please scroll down to the latest post for the most recent project. : )




This dragon is a commish for a friend on gaiaonline and is of one of her OCs. I'm having trouble rendering the rocks and would like some advice on how to proceed.

The rocks are supposed to appear as if they're being held togeather only by the roots of the tree.

Sellout was applied purposefully as i've never done it before and wanted to give it a try.

[infinitegames]

I like it a lot. It will be very cool when finished.

I'm no expert, but a few things jump out at me right away. First, the "back" looks sort of weird. I think you should round it out a little bit better. Second, it's very obviously dithered in some areas which makes it look less smooth than it could. Also, the edges are a little bit too jagged. Try lightening them up a little.

I'm looking forward to seeing more of this.

[EdpR]

green palette needs more contrast imo

[brod]

I think the problem is is that the roots seem to be resting on the rocks, if it was holding it together, it'd be nested in it a bit more.

Maybe you can try making cracks around the edges of the roots, or at least make it so that the rocks are indented by them.

On second though, I agree about the colors.

Instead of just changing lum/sat, you should try changing hue too.

For green, you can go from a yellowish-green for brightest, and blueish-green for darkest.

[heyy13]

A much as i love the colour critique, it's not my character and i got verry specific instructions as to what colours the dragon should be. I'm more free with the other pallets, which is why the rocks do hue shift towards yellow as they get lighter but unfortunatly the pallet for the dragon is (almost) set. I might be able to get away with abit more yellow in the lighter colours, but i can't garuntee it. It's been closlely critiqued by the (eventual) owner as i work so i'll have to run it past her. : )


infinitegames ~ Which areas were you refering too (as far as overdithering) the belly was supposed to have more of a "scaled look" and so the dithering was supposed to make it more rough not less like on the rest of the peice. But if you didn't recognise that then i obviously havn't pulled it off. So if that's what your refering too i'd take ideas.

I'll see what i can do as far as rounding out the back, i've had the same thought myself but when i look at it close up it looks much more rounded than when i room out. *fiddles with it again*


EdpR ~ I'll give it a try, i'm not normally a fan of really high contrast but i'll experiment and see what it looks like.


brod ~ Now this was exactly the critique i was looking for. THANKYOU! <3 That's a really good idea for the rocks, i've just started and it's allready looking better. : )

The rest of your post is answered first.



Might not be able to post an update for afew days as a priority project has just been requested. So this is on the backburner at the moment unless i get blinding inspiration.

[heyy13]

Update on the tree since the rocks are giving me art block. xP



I tried to round the back more and i think it looks better?

[Fatalis67]

Huge improvement.
1. Smooth out the edges everywhere, most of them are jagged
2. Shade the other branch of the tree and the rest of the roots.
3. Dither the rocks

Also, maybe make the dragon horns a darker color so they stand out from the background and shade them, they look flat and out of place.

[heyy13]

I think commenting that i should finish parts i havn't even started is abit rediculous. o__o;; There is a reason this is a WIP, the other branch/most of the roots and horns havn't even been attempted and the rocks have only the most rudamentary of colours layed down so far, simply to help define the forms.

So i'll address the only relevant part of your comment:

Which finished edges are jagged? I only see one or two places (which i'll go fix) but the assertion that most of them are jagged? Please help me find these jaggies.



EDIT: Update

I think the tree is currently looking abit too perfectly cylindrical in the upper trunk. Any ideas on how to spice it up?

[Dan]

An easy way to add to the tree is to imagine you grab the top of the tree and twist it. I would do a demo but im at work and dont have paint lol. What im trying to say is it needs to look twisted like where the roots enter the tree they should carry on going up the tree but around it if u get what i mean. lol Have a look at some other peoples tree posted on pix.

THANKS!

[Andre]

Realy nice palette to the tree

I'm not sure about it, since I actually love this present version, anyway I would probably use some antialiasing to mix the borders into the background.
dunno if it would screw the whole thing but I certainly would make an experiment on that.

[heyy13]

I did this before i saw your two comments so i'll have to give them a try next time! : )

@ Andre ~ That's an idea. It's actually going to be on a plain white background, i just don't like to pixel on eyeburning white. Thus the grey background in all the wips.

But the AA is a good idea, once i've finished cleaning it up and done all the rocks i might give it a shot, just to see if it looks anygood.


@ Dan ~ I have problems then with where the limbs come out and i was going more for a realistic tree than a fantasy tree but that's a cool idea. In the new version i've tried editing more limbs in and made it look abit more interesting that way. So i'm not sure it needs it now. But thankyou very much for the idea! I'm probably going to try it on another project that's currently bouncing around in my head. 


NEW WIP:

This is a big edjt even though it doesn't look that differant... I've finished the tree (interesting enough to look at now?) and cleaned up the rocks ready for dithering. Still have to do them and the grass and try out Andre's AA idea and then i'll call it done. : )







EDIT: (so as not to double post)

I tried dithering one of the rocks. It took over an hour and i'm not too sure wether it looks better now or before? Oppinions? xP

[Azgardes]

Those rocks don't really look like rocks. They kind of look like eggs, they lack texture that just dithering won't achieve. The same goes with the tree and the dragon, they're very smooth. I think this piece would benefit from better textures rather than simply dithering. The colours also seem very bland to me. But you have something there with those lines

[heyy13]

Those rocks don't really look like rocks. They kind of look like eggs, they lack texture that just dithering won't achieve. The same goes with the tree and the dragon, they're very smooth. I think this piece would benefit from better textures rather than simply dithering. The colours also seem very bland to me. But you have something there with those lines

I know, that's why i opened the thread. To get some help with exactly that. Texture ideas, specifically for the rocks as the dragon is supposed to be smooth. 

But noone has really answered that question in the slightest. It's rather depressing...

Any ideas?

[decker]

totally aside of pix-art, but beautiful rocks? watch "Das Rad", a short animation starring a couple of rock piles. perhaps that could spark something.

[Dan]

The thing with rocks they are like diamonds loads of sides, levels and textures your rocks are too rounded. Experience with roughing them up a bit i'd do the same to the tree too as the tree is smooth and there is no sign on bark.

[heyy13]

Thankyou very much you two. Yours are the most on topic comments with what i wanted all thread. xD <3 (though everyone else's imput was much loved aswell)

I'm going to go look up Das Rad right now and watch it.

[Dan]

In my previouse post i spoke about 'twisting' and i found this piece by schrumpfkopf which demonstrates what i ment like the twisting from the roots to the top.

http://pixeljoint.com/pixelart/35420.htm?sec=showcase

Hope it helps.

[heyy13]

@ Dan ~ I think it's against the nature of this particular tree to be doing that. So instead i'm looking at rendering the bark. :3

But it's a good idea.


Since the dragon is going nowhere at the moment whilst i try to figure out the art of rendering large rocks i started an angel for fun:



Still rediculiously WIP but thought i may aswell see if there is any glaring mistakes.



EDIT:

Almost finished one of the wings. Atleast now there is something to critique.

[heyy13]

Did the hair (went through about 6 differant colours before finding a pallet i liked) and most of the face. Blocked out shading for the rest of the body aswell. : )

Now everyone has even more to crit!

[Ryona]

Okay, I'm going to quickly jump in here and say what needs to be said before it's too late. Before you start working on that furniture the woman is lying on, I should inform you that the perspectiveness is incorrect. There needs to be foreshortening in the furniture dimensions in order for it to look naturally correct.

Example, have you noticed looking down the street that the road appears to narrow as it extends into the distance? You need to apply that same visual effect on your furniture. Not as exaggerated as the road, because the road is long and your furniture appears to be 2 - 3 feet in width (the top part), but hopefuly you get what I mean.

That said, I like the style of your woman. Very elegant. And your dragon is looking gorgeous.

[heyy13]

:O

Good point Ryona! I completely forgot about perspective. xD;; I've been doing alot of small isometric things and scenes (like the dragon) that lack depth. Your completely corect and i shall go about setting a vanishing point somewhere in the back and adjusting the divan.

I'm glad you like the style! I was concerned that people wouldn't like it because i've exagerated the pear shape, legnth and width of her limbs so much. Also concerned about the hands and wings, i suck at hands and i've never attempted angel wings before.

So your praise releives me muchly!

I'm stumped on the dragon (thus the angel) but thanks. : )

[Shrike]

i like the angel, but im really posting about the rocks. When i was on vacation in Wisconsin i noticed something. When you look at rocks, they are (obviously) very plainular, but with lots of nooks and crannies and stuff in the bigger shape. Id post an example, but im a little busy right now. Expect one soon! good luck. 
-:EDIT:-
if i don't get an example out soon enough look at some ref pics.

[heyy13]

@ Shrike, it's so dificult to find refs for rocks larger than a pebble on the web. I realise what your talking about though and have been looking at some boulders in a local empty lot for ideas. : )


UPDATE on angel:

I tried to incorporate a vanishing point for the chair.... As you can see it didn't work... Help? Edits? Ideas? I just reread Ryona's post and realised i'm an idiot. I'll now be forshortening the couch instead of trying to make it needlessly complicated by incorporating a vanishing point. xP

[Ryona]

Okay, here's a quick edit on the couch to illustrate some depth and dimension.
Keep working on your artwork! It's turning into something beautiful.

[heyy13]

Sorry it's been so long since i've updated everyone but i've been really busy (and art-blocky).

Thankyou verry much for that Ryona! I've crossed my original divan with the one that was adjusted for vanishing points and i came up with a similar thing that didn't look completely stupid.



Next i must conquor the apolstry! xD;;



I also addressed the lack of texture on the tree for the dragon. It looks much better. Still trying to find a solution i like to the rocks, but we'll see how it goes. : )

[Emtch]

Trees aren't usually spotted like that, and it doesn't look like small pieces of bark either. I think you should change the texture of the tree, but if you like it that way you should keep it.

[Blick]

There's a time and place to use selective outlining effectively, and it's not for a still image on a light background. The only time it's necessary is when the piece will be moving along various backgrounds. Selout is basically anti-aliasing to a background of medium luminescence, so using a light background to show the dragon is just hurting the piece. Also, there's a uniform texture throughout the tree and dragon. Smooth. Trees have holes, disfigurements, peeling bark, perhaps cracking or bending from stress of the dragon's weight. You'll have to do more than spot it with single pixels to add any realistic texture to it. The pillow shading, especially noticeable on the trunk, doesn't help the lack of texture either.

The rocks are also rather smooth, but I'm more concerned about how they're stacked. They're all in the foreground. There's not pile of rocks to support the precarious tower of rocks shown. I'd like to see a sturdier base of rocks, to make the situation more realistic.

A similar occurrence happens in the tail feathers(?). Each one appears to be on the same plane as the rest, making them flat.

I can't stress depth and texture enough for it.