Twinsen Pushing

[.TakaM]

I want him to sorta push like a child, pushing all his weight up against whatever object, but I just can't seem to get it looking good
And no idea whether I should tilt the head or not

Any help greatly appreciated

[minipuck]

maybe a red head, and some sweat droplets on his forehead or face.

[PypeBros]

when pushing really hard, your arms are almost horizontal, and the head in between, so that most of your body can push directly through your shoulders, and if you happen to push something that actually cannot be moved, you'll end up with elbows bended and your face against the obstacle.

[.TakaM]

Yeah, that's sorta what I meant by pushing like a child
Like he's throwing all his weight against it, expecting it to not move at all, like he's pushing up against a wall
And I can't really stretch him out logically since the collision would be a nightmare

altered the posture again:



megh..

[minipuck]

maybe it will help you to actually create an object he's pushing against? even if it's just a 1 pixel line to help your inspiration, (just a thought here)

[kitty]

You could have his current frame just for the initial collision and animate him to eventually be pushing like the lady on the far right?
Because isn't that how it actually works when you push something anyways? You have to be real close until the object getting pushed gets momentum.

[Ben2theEdge]

This pose seems "timid" to me. By that I mean there are certain things that animators seem initially very reluctant to do: deviating greatly from a standing position is one. Obscuring the character's face is another. I think the reason for this is that animators feel they have to always remind the viewer who they're looking at, so they're afraid to deviate much. But this results in stiff poses and it isn't necessary. Since you've already given the player a good clear look at your character in other animations, it is perfectly okay to obscure or distort him. The priority here should be to emphasize the struggle:

[Frychiko]

Ben, most of the other animations from the game don't deviate much from the standing frame so this suggestion of yours would feel out of place, even though it's better.

http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=MKn52Cr1DPw

[Dusty]

I'd say it would look much more childish and struggling if he were pushing from his back.

Otherwise, Ben has the right idea. Your newest one has absolutely no weight behind it, so it wouldn't feel like it's putting too much into it.

[.TakaM]

I'm quite sure I will redo a lot of Twinsen's animations, but I still want to keep him quite upright so his hit box can stay the same to avoid a lot of complications.
However I can still stretch him out more than I have like you guys are suggesting, based on that and ben's sketch



I still feel just as unsatisfied though

[Dusty]

Well, the benefit of pushing from his back is that you can portray a lot of effort while his back would be upright against the object as the pushing would be from his legs.

[Froli]

How about just showing one arm while pushing? this way you get to see his facial expression 

[Sherman Gill]

Hmm, I must say I prefer .Takam's. Actually, I think the one you've got now is great and don't see how you'll make it better, man.

[Indigo]

I'm inclined to agree with froli's edit on this one.  In taka's version it appears that he's pushing on the box with the entire forearm - while in the edit he's pushing with the hand which is a lot more readable in my eyes and packs a bit more energy.  With the entire forearm resting on the box, it almost appears like he's leaning against something crying in an emotional fit.

I really do love the style of this whole game, taka.   very awesome

EDIT:
even in the reference photos above shows how people effectively push with their hands and not the forearm.

[PypeBros]

I'm quite sure I will redo a lot of Twinsen's animations, but I still want to keep him quite upright so his hit box can stay the same to avoid a lot of complications.
However I can still stretch him out more than I have like you guys are suggesting, based on that and ben's sketch



I still feel just as unsatisfied though

having the shoulders pushed backward by the effort might help. (maybe)

[AlexHW]

maybe try exploring other stances for pushing.. you could have his chest facing directly the object, with his arms outstretched and his head down.. or you could have his back against the object with his arms pointing down against the object. maybe he can be facing away from the viewer rather than towards as it is now.. go up to a wall and try to see how many positions you can be in while pushing against it..

[Turbo]

You've bent the wrong arm. That one should be stretched, perpendicular to the surface of the object being pushed, and the one closer to the block should be the bent one.
Also, much of this needs to be indicated by the shoulder, maybe overlaying it to the face (huge amounts of effort usually translate in the shoulders coming up towards the head )

[.TakaM]

The last pushing sprite I posted here has grown on me and I haven't made anything I like any better since, so I started on the animation

I will be animating the upper part of his body accordingly with the hips, but what do you guys think?

[Dex]

I'm still feeling that you should go with Froli on this one, but that's up to you. The legs look fine at the moment.

[Turbo]

My comment still stands. Here you go.

[Lunar]

Yeah, I agree with Turbo.  His looks like alot more strain is being put against moving the object.

-Lunar

[.TakaM]

placeholder arm

[sharprm]

Looks pretty good I'd like to see his head rotate just like that elephant does - i think it'd look more kiddy.

[.TakaM]

I think I need to move the upper half of his body up a few pixels to the right.. and I need to fatten him up a bit.. looks like bending paper at the moment
and I will have his upper body & head rotate accordingly

[Helm]

I am not sure how thw fabric works on the legs, also that knee travels a huge distance where it should mostly be going on a horisontal line. The leg morphs and changes lengths according to the movement, whereas the correct was is, the movement is constrained and directed by the length of the leg.

[.TakaM]

I think I'm going to take some liberties on Twinsen's tunic, and finally shade/aa it properly.. It's just getting way too hard to work with as it is.
This topic will be back in the near future.

thanks guys

[Willows]

I know, I know, this topic is a bit old... but I'd come across a book that explained perfectly why there was no force in some of these pushes, and so much in others.

...then I forgot which book, otherwise I'd just scan it and I'm sure it'd be clear.

The basic idea is that you can draw a C-curve that follows the force of the body, and most of the force will be shootin' out the end of that C-curve. If the tip of the C-curve points UP (as seen in your earliest attempt) practically all the force will be directed UP, and as such y'ain't gonna get any force pushing against whatever you're trying to push against.

Demonstrated:



Furthest on left has some force "escaping" out of the top but the overall "S" curve that is formed is providing some force.

Next over is one of your earlier attempts. Practically all force goes straight up, and really weak force in the arms doesn't help the wimpy look

Ben's edit (I think?) in the middle shows most of the force travelling at what seems to be a 45, which is awesome. It does lose some force in the "pushing with my elbows!" bit... but that also makes it closer to your pushin' like a kid ideal.

Next over is just ruined by the multiple bends taken in its travel from shoulder to object. Every time you make a turn like that, you'd only be able to push as much force as the weakest joint could handle.

Next over was taken from somewhere in your walk cycle. It's actually quite effective because the C curve is quite harsh, harsher than I drew it actually (It'd go from his near foot to the peak of his back to his hands on the wall) and so most of the force is travelling into the object.

On the bottom is what I view as ideal.

I'm trying to figure this stuff out, still. If I'm wrong somewhere, give me a shout. We'll figure it out

(Edit : Found the page)

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/SaboteurGreg/Takam2.jpg

Taken from Wayne Gilbert's Simplified drawing for planning animation

[Turbo]

Sweet, Willows, saving both those diagrams. I have a very instinctive grasp on motion lines, but would like to learn a more theoretical approach, and this surely helps.