AuthorTopic: Mockup Frenzy #8: Megaman!  (Read 255815 times)

Offline Dusty

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1107
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile

Re: Mockup Frenzy #8: Megaman!

Reply #110 on: August 26, 2008, 02:49:20 pm
I think the problem is, when you're dodging projectiles and enemies(especially in a game as difficult as Megaman), the last thing a player wants to do is micromanage whether or not a tile is safe.

Offline ter-o

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 131
  • Karma: +1/-0
  • Elitist scum
    • View Profile

Re: Mockup Frenzy #8: Megaman!

Reply #111 on: August 26, 2008, 03:02:42 pm
You guys seem to miss out the fact that after the first screen the player knows that the dark grey tiles are only a background element. You see your player walking in front of them and obviously you can't land on them after jump etc. and also they have this unique look, apart from other tiles. So after the first screen your mind has interpreted that those tiles are not for any interaction. So later in the game you won't mix them to the other tiles, even when in a hectic battle. Imho.

I guess this debate is more about personal tastes and opinions how games should look like (based on the games we've played) and not whether Kon's mockup is actually playable or not.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2008, 04:00:47 pm by ter-o »
I don't know everything, I just know everything else.
Try not. Do, or do not. There is no try. -Master Yoda

Offline Ben2theEdge

  • 0011
  • **
  • Posts: 503
  • Karma: +1/-0
  • I'ma drink mah coffee!
    • View Profile
    • My Deviantart Gallery

Re: Mockup Frenzy #8: Megaman!

Reply #112 on: August 26, 2008, 05:30:44 pm
I guess this debate is more about personal tastes and opinions how games should look like (based on the games we've played) and not whether Kon's mockup is actually playable or not.

It's an uneducated assumption to presume that people are just trying to conform Alex' mockup to preconcieved notions about what games look like. Personal opinion is a factor, but things like positive/negative space, layout, and presentation of information are staples of graphic design. The debate is about whether or not they are relevant. I would argue that in video game art they are not only relevant but the priority.

can you spot any tiles which a person can mis-interpret and furthur more die from in my mockup? i can't. the grass tiles are pretty clear to me that i can stand on them, and the dark grey tiles are pretty clear to me that i can walk in front of them. you dont need neon yellow caution tape on everything.

The grey tiles and the grass appear to be on the same plane to me, and they both seem solid since they're similar levels of contrast to the other positive spaces, and very much separate from the sky which is the only obvious negative space. This is easily fixed by just separating the dark gray from the light gray a little more. As Rosse's edit points out, the layout is complicated to begin with, so some visual assistance is necessary. You can call it "caution tape" if you want but if someone on my team were to tell me "it's the viewer's responsibility to discern what's solid and what's not", I would call that lazy design.

Anyway it's your art and no one is paying you, so have it your way. But your work will suffer from an attitude like that.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2008, 05:41:10 pm by Ben2theEdge »
I mild from suffer dislexia.

Offline ter-o

  • 0010
  • *
  • Posts: 131
  • Karma: +1/-0
  • Elitist scum
    • View Profile

Re: Mockup Frenzy #8: Megaman!

Reply #113 on: August 26, 2008, 05:34:12 pm
things like positive/negative space, layout, and presentation of information are staples of graphic design. The debate is about whether or not they are relevant.

You got me on that. Thanks for making it straight.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2008, 05:36:42 pm by ter-o »
I don't know everything, I just know everything else.
Try not. Do, or do not. There is no try. -Master Yoda

Offline AlexHW

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1037
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • AlexHW

Re: Mockup Frenzy #8: Megaman!

Reply #114 on: August 26, 2008, 06:02:38 pm
ben, why do they appear on the same plane? because of their similar level of contrast? just because something has more contrast doesn't mean its on a different plane than something which isn't as contrasty. That is just an illusion artists tend to take advantage of(sometimes to a certain extent exploit) to suggest such things. Should that mean i have to go by that presumptive thought? no, because there are other ways to discern between which plane something is on, one being with the context it is within.
just because something is easier, doesnt mean it is the best way or only way.
also yo uhave to keep in mind the restrictions and any necessary sacrifices one has to make along with the direction the artist is taking things.. im not oblivious to these facts you present, i just choose to make certain sacrifices to keep with the intended look that i want and find alternative methods to go by.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2008, 06:11:52 pm by Alex Hanson-White »

Offline AdamAtomic

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1188
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • natural born medic
    • View Profile
    • Adam Atomic

Re: Mockup Frenzy #8: Megaman!

Reply #115 on: August 26, 2008, 06:39:42 pm
By disregarding useful color theory your end result is flat, confusing and uninteresting, despite the fact that by simply applying some basic graphic design ideas and not changing the actual tile designs you have something that is really fantastic.

Part of challenging established conventions is realizing that SOME conventions aren't done just because they're easier, they're done because they work better than everything else.  People have been doing art for a pretty long time now!  I think you've chosen some very strange things to re-invent.

Also, I don't see how applying MORE limitations in this already cramped space makes the design work any easier.  I think it's much harder to come up with some cool, original tilework that would actually be playable AND fits the hardware restrictions.  It's easy to make something "different" when you don't have to worry about whether or not you would alienate anyone who tried to play the game.

Offline AlexHW

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1037
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • AlexHW

Re: Mockup Frenzy #8: Megaman!

Reply #116 on: August 26, 2008, 06:52:50 pm
i dont think im reinventing, if anything im exploring. why does everything have to be so strict that we can't allow ourselves or others the luxury of considering other possibilities.
I do agree however that the level design is somewhat disorganized, but i was going for a more organic layout, not something stiff and straight as was suggested with an edit by rosse

Offline AdamAtomic

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1188
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • natural born medic
    • View Profile
    • Adam Atomic

Re: Mockup Frenzy #8: Megaman!

Reply #117 on: August 26, 2008, 07:35:41 pm
we can't allow ourselves or others the luxury of considering other possibilities

That's not what I said at all.  I said:

Quote
Part of challenging established conventions is realizing that SOME conventions aren't done just because they're easier, they're done because they work better than everything else.

I don't know how else you find that out EXCEPT by exploring them.  Exploration is great, most pixel work that most of us do is the result of trial and error and experimentation, this is not some rare value or motivation only found in specific artists.  However, I don't know how to benefit from exploration and discovery if you don't have a keen enough critical eye to be able to tell what experiments work and what experiments don't.

Offline AlexHW

  • 0100
  • ***
  • Posts: 1037
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
    • AlexHW

Re: Mockup Frenzy #8: Megaman!

Reply #118 on: August 26, 2008, 07:56:37 pm
well, i feel i balanced things pretty well in my mockup considering the limitations
i cant just add more contrast into my grass tile as that would totally change it and go against the intended look i want to achieve.. I also dont want neon green grass. if i took a color out(such as the grey) and added another lighter green color, that would take away the detail in the dirt, which is necessary for the tile to blend well into the other dirt/rock.. also, that would stop th eplants from blending into the sky since the grey would be gone.
you can't have everything.. i shared my point of view, i don't think there's anymore i can say about it. i still prefer my version over the edits made.

Offline ptoing

  • 0101
  • ****
  • Posts: 3063
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • variegated quadrangle arranger
    • the_ptoing
    • http://pixeljoint.com/p/2191.htm
    • View Profile
    • Perpetually inactive website

Re: Mockup Frenzy #8: Megaman!

Reply #119 on: August 26, 2008, 09:16:57 pm
Alex: Some general suggestion. Learn to take a crit. I don't recall you ever taking any crits, suggestions or edits into account.

But enough of this.

There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.