Return of the NINJA!

[Ryona]

Okay, so I recently got back at this old project of mine. Some of you might remember it. Some might not. Either way, It's a project I developed some time ago to make a Gameboy-style game.
Inspired by the Gameboy classic Ninja Gaiden Shadow, I wanted to create my own ninja-style game.
I got real creative with the main character and gave her an "eye-candy" appearance.

Just finished making the new forth scene image, and created some more enemy sprites. Let me hear your thoughts and suggestions.




Oh, and here's an animated manuver which allows you to get up over high platforms.

[Ben2theEdge]

The thugs are amazing. They have a great kinetic quality to them and a sense of weight and personality even when they're not moving - these kinds of characters are an animator's dream to work with, they practically animate themselves. You get 5 1up mushrooms for this.

The main character seems a lot more straightforward and archetypal... I guess that's not a bad thing but she's not really as interesting to me as the bad guys, so far. I would try to give her the same great curviness that you gave to the gangsters. Her ducking pose isn't too bad but her standing pose is just plain-jane. The bad guys are all enthusiastic about killing her and she seems kind of bored with being a ninja. Such a juxtaposition should not exist unless you're playing it for laughs - ie, "Haha she's a bored ninja!"

[Conzeit]

Dont make your animations by placing the frames in even spaces of time.

Living creatures neve move at regular speeds, and this is most demerital of the animation if you have few frames.

Specifically in your grasp-to-standing animation, make her simply tense up while hanging, and next frame have her up in the air past the midpoint of the leap.

She also doesnt balance her body properly, is that intentional? cause the way she sticks out her butt it seems like it's your idea of sexy. If you have problems with balance, imagine that there's a line crossing the character vertically, and try to have as much weight one one side of the line as there is on the other. In the case of this animation at the beggining the line would have do be drawn diagonally, from the feet, and later from the hands as she leaps up....finally it should be drawn vertically from feet once she's standing.

here's my quick stab at it
Ghost in the shell has good examples of few-frames action animations of high production values (except for the opening part, that is smoothness hell)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bK9irr2k4g&feature=related (good stuff starts at the middle of this clip)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64IHRtSvreo&feature=related here it starts a little earlier....

That's some nice peep-show u got for the player in each chapter starter...heheheh  ...dunno about the symetrical diamond atop her crotch in the new one tho.

[Corsair]

symetrical diamond atop her crotch in the new one tho.

I think it's supposed to tbe the sword. I had to look at it for a sec to be sure.

there's probably a way to make it more...i guess swordlike but i wouldn't be able to say how exactly.

[Dusty]

Prince of Persia is a great reference for climbing and such. Very smooth stuff.

I believe you can even find the original videos used by the artist for reference of someone(his brother) running around on youtube.

[Souly]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=r3OqORyk0PQ&feature=related
Flashback had a nice pull up animation.
Although he didn't quite move like a ninja...
Just skip to 0:45 there's a lame gun fight at the beginning.

[michael]

i definitely agree that youve got some swell thugs and that your ladys pose needs some jazz. but my main critique is that i see two different games. now i know i dont know what the story is or what the rest of the art will be like, but it seems like the gangsters don't match your lady. i'll see if i can come up with a thug that i feel is more fitting and a pose that is more expressive. youve got a really hot ninja and she should flaunt her pixels 

when i first saw this is thought some one was making a game with pamila 

[Ryona]

Thanks for the comments and help, guys.

Yeah, the sword is hard to read, so I fixed it a little. Hope it helps.

Also, I changed her neutral stance to something more dynamic. Let me know if it's looking better.



And finally, thanks for the critiquing on the pull-up animation. I've givin it some thought on what I could maybe do to improve it.
Thing is I want it to look like she has the strength to just litterally throw her body up over the edge, which is why she's just using her arms to pull herself over and landing on her feet.

By the way, those smooth animations in that Flashback game reminds me of games like Nosferatu and BlackThorne, both for the SNES. Those games totally impressed me with how realistic the characters moved.

And ouch, you're comparing my character to a flake like Pamela Anderson, michael?

[ortodoxx]

I like what i see

But dont blame michael, all i can see in scene 4 is her GIGANTIC ASS!... i mean..... wow.

[Souly]

Not sure if this helps at all...

[Helm]

As it is right now it seems she pulls herself up not by the power of her upper body, but by the gravity-defying power of her bottom. I am not sure in how many ways this can be resolved unless you're willing to completely rework the animation.

[Dusty]

I think you could emphasize her upper body pull by pulling her above the ledge and let her land on it.

[michael]

whoawhoa, nononono not pamila anderson   pamila from bondage fairies, of course 

[Conzeit]

As it is right now it seems she pulls herself up not by the power of her upper body, but by the gravity-defying power of her bottom. I am not sure in how many ways this can be resolved unless you're willing to completely rework the animation.

LMAO somebody should make an earthwormjim-like game with a girl and make that a powerup XDD

I can just envision Princess-what's-her-name lighting up her botton in red and hover butt-high, her body and legs dangling below her glutes, as her bombastic botton keeps her afloat XD

[tehwexxl0rz]

Whoa, I think you could stand to raise her ass a few pixels in the scene four image.
Also, her breasts seem rather disconnected from her body. It actually took a few seconds to figure out what's going on there! I think it would help a lot to move her shoulder over and bring them more centered—basically rotate her torso forward a bit. At the moment her torso does not look connected to the hips at all (and it looks very odd to have the one breast dead center).

Great work overall anyway! I'm especially impressed by your techniques on the larger scene images. Great lighting and AA for only four shades to work with!

[Fingerfoods]

I remember this project! Good to see that it's still alive.

There's some awesome perspective in your scenes, but 'Above the Street' is bothering me. Her face looks a lot bigger/wider compared to her hair than in the other shots, but that could just be because her hair's swept back.

And also I forget who mentioned it previously but Ghost in the Shell DOES have a lot of gratuitous female athletics scenes that may be good to learn from. XD

[Vertigo-zero]

The best reference you'll ever find for your character is Taki from SoulCaliber2. She has the same shapes and she is in a fighting game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oh1RPjbQd5c&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyvacTtj6Dg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8ofpw0nB24&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAS9ApKs4Uo&feature=related

hope it helps. Im going to sleep now

[Ryona]

As it is right now it seems she pulls herself up not by the power of her upper body, but by the gravity-defying power of her bottom. I am not sure in how many ways this can be resolved unless you're willing to completely rework the animation.

I personally thought it looked alright because it makes the climb look pretty effortless, which is what I was going with, and felt the frames just needed to move faster (which I unfortunately can't do with the dinky GIF. maker I use).
...But, I'm totally open to suggestions, so what can I do to improve it? I don't really want it to look like a regular climb. She needs to appear stronger and more agile than the average person.

I think you could emphasize her upper body pull by pulling her above the ledge and let her land on it.

I thought that's what I did... 

whoawhoa, nononono not pamila anderson   pamila from bondage fairies, of course 

Oh she's a cutie. I'll have to see what that manga is all about.
And she does resemble my character, I have to admit.


And thanks to everyone for leaving comments and such.
The tips from Ghost in the Shell and Taki from the SoulCalibur series are real helpful, and I actually have SoulCalibur III, so I'll study from that.

I'll see about touching up the hair in scene III, and I'm quite fine with how the body is in scene IV. Her outfit with the cutout shapes might be a little tricky to read in the shots, so I'm going to show a drawing of her I made to make it clear...

[Dusty]

I think you could emphasize her upper body pull by pulling her above the ledge and let her land on it.

I don't think you gave her enough vertical lift. I think it would look great if she threw herself in to a small jump, I guess you could say. Because her feet never really go above the platform, she never looks like she throws herself, but just pulls herself up in an awkward manner. It might also help to have her actual pull fast and quick, but her descent slowed down, to emphasize the strength of her pull.

[LaserBeing]

bondage fairies

what that manga is all about.

"Bondage Fairies"... the title says it all, really :O


*ahem* That aside, I like where you're going with this. More indie game characters should have legs like that!

Regarding her standing idle pose, the new one is an improvement, but she still just doesn't look ready. She doesn't even have her sword out! She should either get that steel out and start doing some sweet ninja poses, or if you don't want her to be running around with a drawn sword, she could have her hand on the hilt like in the Scene 1 image, ready to draw it out in a flash, iaijutsu-style (in fact I think Ryu does this in the old Ninja Gaiden games).

As for her climbing-up animation, I think it would look better if she ended in a crouch, rather than just standing straight up as soon as her feet land. Take a look at how Ayame gets over walls in this Tenchu 4 video, might give you some ideas. Another idea might be to have her do something flashy like a flip or a handstand or something.

Other than that my advice is to play lots of ninja games for inspiration. Shinobi III, Strider, Kaze Kiri, that sort of thing. Also it probably wouldn't hurt to watch Jubei-Chan for cute girls wailing on people with katanas.

[Turbo]

I remember you mentioning a game. Go ahead and DO IT already! Looking pretty good so far, in a cheesy sort of way

The "Scene IV" image was bothering me a bit.
Dunno why, but the sword hilt made my mind go "omg a FAGINA"... specially after where it's positioned , in the composition...
I did an edit, using a trick i usually do to help with human figure construction in perspective.
Basically, i do a profile of the figure, then tilt it so it matches the perspective somewhat, trace horizontal lines of the most significant body "landmarks" (where the body joints are, nipple placement), and then re-draw the body, following the lines which indicate me the vertical distances of the body. Don't really have a technique for knowing how much foreshortening to apply to each part, i just wing and eye-ball it.
Hope it helps.

[wah_wah_69]

Wow, you can see her kidneys!

Will this game have violence and gore?

[Jigsaw]

Looks great, I'm really digging the character design.

As for the animation, I'm certainly no expert but I agree that it needs to have more of a crouch before she goes back to her neutral pose. As someone said before, it doesn't really look as if she's leaping over the edge, but rather that she's just sort of sliding or hovering up. If you make it more into an actual jump, which she then lands from (crouching), and then have her stand up again, I think it would make the motion more dynamic and better convey the feeling you're going for.
Additionally, I think the way she bends her legs also takes away from the impression that she's pulling herself up with the power of her arms - if her legs were completely straight in frames 2 and 3 I think it would look more like she's pulling herself up (or rather pushing herself off) the edge, with the legs just sort of trailing after.

I'm no authority on animation though, so take my advice with a grain of salt. In any event, I definitely look forward to seeing more of this!

edit: threw together a quick edit.



Could be made a lot more interesting of course, but I think the timing and basic motion looks a little bit better at least...

[TrevoriuS]

How does she gain horiziontal speed? She grips the edge and pushes herslef up, but on frame 4 she has a pose as if the leap was only half her body length high and she had room to jump forward a bit before gripping the edge. I suggest adjusting frame 1 to be slightly off the wall, and rotated to the right, probably with the fingers just hitting the edge, then modify frame 2 to be relevant to frame 1 and 3.

[Dusty]

Hmm... This is what I was proposing earlier. I can't animate it, and it was a very quick move-stuff-around edit, but I think you get the idea:

[TrevoriuS]

If that was a response to my post, note that I was talking about horizontal speed appearing out of nowhere in the 4th frame, and integrating that better, not the vertical speed. In fact, your edit is much less logical, as you are unlikely to jump with such brute force you push yourself up way high above the ground.

[Dusty]

My edit was elaborating on my suggestions earlier posted.

As for the logic of it... she already said she's trying to emphasize the strength of her pull. Hence why mines gives illogical brute force strength behind it.

[Conzeit]

that makes MUCH more sense. I'm suddenly seeing very clearly where she was going from the beggining with this.

Goes to show you can fix a problem without revamping the whole thing...like I usually do C.c

I'm kinda doubtful, cause cutting as many frames as posible is my current obsession, but I do think this one would benefit from it. Usually if you go relaxed->effort->exagerated result->relaxed result it makes quite the impressive motion....for attack. But  considering the aproach, it'd probably fit this dragging anim too.

And I totally agree about the sword-cunt. I only thought it was some diamond thing because of the geometry...but before your conscious side makes that judgement, your unconscious totally goes CUNT!

[Ryona]

*ahem* That aside, I like where you're going with this. More indie game characters should have legs like that!

As for her climbing-up animation, I think it would look better if she ended in a crouch, rather than just standing straight up as soon as her feet land.

She's supposed to get back to the standard idle pose after pulling herself up. And that pretty much goes for every action she does.

The "Scene IV" image was bothering me a bit.
Dunno why, but the sword hilt made my mind go "omg a FAGINA"... specially after where it's positioned , in the composition...

And I totally agree about the sword-cunt. I only thought it was some diamond thing because of the geometry...but before your conscious side makes that judgement, your unconscious totally goes CUNT!

Haha! You two are real perceptive!

Yes, it was intended that you would see that in the sword-guard.
I had created a symbol a long time ago which is supposed to be a symbol of woman-strength and power. You'll see from my artwork below that the shapes suggest a vulva and a breast. That's intentional.
I used the vulva shape for the sword-guard. 



Basicly where I'm trying to go with this ninja character is that she's intentionally a sex-symbol, but in a non-derogatory way. She's a proud and powerful woman.
It's hard for me to explain where I'm going with all this without people pointing and saying "OMG! You're a pervert!".
If you're open-minded and really think outside the box with what I'm trying to acheive, I think you'll get it. Anyway, the story will make more sense when I reveal it. 

Will this game have violence and gore?

Oh you better believe it, buster. Not TOO much gore though.


And thank you very much, Turbo, for the tip and trick on achieving angled perceptions. I'll be using that. 

And thank you very much, Jigsaw, for your edit and tips. I got a real good feel from it, and I managed to come up with this...

[Jigsaw]

I still think it needs a crouch at the end, but the hoisting motion is infinitely better. You definitely manage to get across the feeling that she's flinging herself up over the edge (the motion itself looks a lot sexier too), but the landing needs to be "heavier" to really sell that she's actually airborne. A pose similar to the 4th frame in the original animation put in between frames 5 and 6 of the new one should make it look more natural.

[Ryona]

Okay, I added a crouch in the animation. Check it out! 

[ortodoxx]

Ok, here goes.

remove the sixth frame, yes, it's the crouchframe. It only makes here ass look like it's become like jelly and bounces down to the ground an then fast up again.
On the first frame you should add a 0.1sec delay, the second frame a 0.3sec delay to emphasize the strenght needed for the pull and the fifth frame should be remade to a sort of crouching-state as shes tossed in the air ready to land.

i made an edit but didnt have the time to upload it since i had to catch a bus.

hope this helps somewhat

[Merick]

The thing that stands out to me is that her legs are stiff as a board as she pulls herself up. When climbing, wouldn't you normally use your legs to help push up against the wall?

[politopo]

Really nice work Ryona.
If you want to be sexy, why don't you make a lifting animation similar to the one in th first tomb raider, with lara croft
making the hand-stand and then somersaulting (almost)?

[TrevoriuS]

Or you would at least bend your legs and jump up a bit to reach the top of the wall, and remain them lsightly bent as the need to be in that position (or possibly even more bent), at the moment of landing. PS: Using your legs to pull yourself up a wall, makes it only harder, especially if you have the strength to go up anyways. And in addition to that, it's alot slower to do it that way, whjich would ruin the pace of this kinda game.

[Conzeit]

EDIT: I cant possibly count how many times I have re-read one of my post I feel like I sound like a total ass, and failed completely to say what I wanted to say.

Have you read a comic book by Allan Moore called Promethea?

The basic idea of female strength is quite similar, and specially the way he's straight on adressing sex FOR the symbology, that completely changes the whole look on sex and makes it something that couldnt be further removed from plain jerkoff material.
in fact....
SPOILER
she in fact turns out to be the whore of babylonia reincarnated, and that's a good thing.

The whole comic is structured around that idea of feminity and it does it quite ellegantly.So honestly after promethea, I dont think I would be shocked even if you're planning to have the girl save the world by having tentacle sex with Cthulu in the end of the game. I'd  really like to know what it is and let me tell you I think it's great somoene in here is actually trying to convery a positive, strong message with their game and is not afraid to use whatever symbology she sees fit for this. I wish every game was like that.

The breast/vulva symbol is looking pretty good too.

Though, I think you should not put it in the hilt like that. I mean think about it, if there's a blade coming out right from the middle of the vulva what you're really saying is she has penis envy. That she wishes a penis came out of her vulva. if you really want to emphasize female strength then put the symbol in the hilt, and make her use the hilt for...I dont know, sucking out the aggresivity out of enemies or something, otherwise you're just reinforcing the currently widespread model of "executive" women that are simply trying to take over the usual place of men.


You should look out and read Promethea.The comic has a lot of symbology and I think it could give you great ideas for ways to go about this, and it would doubtlessly expand your mind a little about what language you can use to do whatever it is you want.

[ortodoxx]

Ok im back home again, and i will now show you my edit.



All i did was work with the timing to have the images anticipate whats to come next.
I know she has superhuman strenght and all, but without any anticipation at all the animation will never become credible.
I also kept the 6th frame and slowed down the movement of it to have her take a break from the landing and to let our eyes register what is going on in the animation.
Maybe rework the sixth frame to have her have one knee on the ground as she lands.

Hope im not just talking alot of jibberish

[Ryumaru]

Have you read a comic book by Allan Moore called Promethea?

Good god man you and that comic( and the drugs too! XD)
I think the latest animation is a big improvement in all aspects. And in your latest update I like the latest idle stance you made. Other than just good stuff all around, gameboy restrictions are like heaven for me :]

[AdamAtomic]

Nice progress Ryona!  I am mainly posting just to assert my total disagreement with Ortodoxx's post and edit, I think your animation is a lot more interesting to watch and is better weighted.  Good work!

[Helm]

Basicly where I'm trying to go with this ninja character is that she's intentionally a sex-symbol, but in a non-derogatory way. She's a proud and powerful woman.
It's hard for me to explain where I'm going with all this without people pointing and saying "OMG! You're a pervert!".
If you're open-minded and really think outside the box with what I'm trying to acheive, I think you'll get it. Anyway, the story will make more sense when I reveal it.

For what it's worth since you bring this up I feel compelled to tell you that what you're doing appears to be superficially disingenuous. I don't know how your game will pan out, perhaps you can pull a strong positive message as you say above off, I sincerely wish you will. Judging (and I use the word lightly because nobody asked me to) from what you've got going up to now you're basically emphasizing tits and ass way more than subverting their semiotic value. There's basically *only* tits and ass in your closeup screens for this. You can say that you mean to do that subversively, and you can make an argument that you have, but I just don't see it yet -- who knows, perhaps at the end it would win me over. What I have in mind is that what you're suggesting is a conscious rationalization that excuses your subconscious reasoning for drawing tits and ass. A lot of women artists draw tits and ass like a lot of men artists draw beefcake: the psychological reasoning is deceptively straightforward: narcissistic desire to manifest an ideal body and project their own selves into it. This is why males feel the rush of looking at able-bodied males and why women feel the rush when they look at sexually luscious female forms. There are many many layers of meaning to go from there and I am not a psychoanalyst, but I think it's safe to say that wisdom and inner strength come from the brain and the heart and not from the clitoris and the breast. If there ever were a symbol of female empowerment in that sense it would be the same symbol of male empowerment.

I do not know to what degree you've given enough thought to these things and you don't really have to because someone on the internet is calling you on it. Perhaps however it will be of use to you to know that so far, your art is transparent and through it not all see an attempt at  positive female self-image, but rather... baser calls. However it could go either way, I hope you prove me wrong.

[The B.O.B.]

Okay, I added a crouch in the animation. Check it out! 

   I felt she needed to push from the wall, for a more given sense of "boost" when she propels herself upward. And I felt the lighter than air jump felt kinda' tacky. Specially with her booty sticking out so much. Just looks strange. I'd suggest this, maybe, if you're going for a slightly realistic platform/ninja like climb:



   And if not, or more willing to stay the course with fantasy, then maybe an over the top flip, like Ninja Gaiden and those other snes games where people can spontaneously do 450-degree flips, and land like a cat at their whim.




Also...I like her bum. 

[Sherman Gill]

The B.O.B.: What the helios is going on in that first animation? It's entirely confusing. I think the ninja twisting her body as she pulls up makes since, but what's with the leg going up like that?

Also, this thread is really dang weird so far, what with the discussion of female sexuality and hentai comics.

[Weasel]

In the first animation I think she's throwing her leg up to catch the ledge and give herself momentum. I was actually thinking a similar thing, but to be honest was to lazy to do an edit to explain. Readability problems are probably due to the colour restrictions meaning you can't easily put a darker colour on the back leg to shove it into the background.

I think the original hover backside version has a certain olde worlde game charm, but I really like B.O.B's flip edit, as it adds extra interest.

[h4x0r]

Maybe someone should try B.O.B.'s first image, but have her lift her legs from the side closest to us.  Her hair is already dark, so colors wouldn't be a problem.  Also you could still see her butt?!  But in any case, sexist humor/(everything else in this post) aside, I think that having her actually lift herself up would be the best decision for this animation...IMO.

@Ryona - Good luck on the game, it looks very promising.  The hardest part of making games is making everything for it first...which I think everyone hates...


P.S. - That last line made me feel like Yoda, without the strange literary abnormalities...

[politopo]

Hi, maybe that the pull-up animation may benefit from some dynamic realism.
I mean that she doesn't seem to have sufficient horizontal momentum to go over the edge after she pulled up herself.
A way to correct this could be to add some swing motion to the leg. I did a simple edit to show what I mean:



Hoping to be helpfull, let me give you my compliments again.

[tehwexxl0rz]

EDIT (based off BOB's edits, mostly):



I tried to find a balance between believability and style. Hope you like!

[Conzeit]

I had made some other options for the jump that I didnt post because I considered them irrelvant.

But now that Bob and everyone BUT his mother is posting more I say

MEH!



I bet ten bucks Ryona is sick of this topic by now