AuthorTopic: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics  (Read 26844 times)

Offline rdcarvallo

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Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

on: June 26, 2008, 08:10:11 pm
These are breaking news...

I have posted here becuase of the last Mockup Frenzy.

From the screenshots in MegaMan Network, it seems that they are reusing even the tilesets from old titles, and not drawing new ones with the NES restrictions.

The only restriction that should be broken is the max sprites per scanline. (No more flickering).

What do you guys think of this?


Offline Cow

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #1 on: June 26, 2008, 08:32:53 pm
What's this? Capcom neglecting one of their old franchises? I don't believe it.

I think it would be a really swell idea if it wasn't half-assed. Right now it's pretty obviously a cheap attempt to cash in on 'retro, lol'.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2008, 08:36:49 pm by Cow »

Offline chriskot

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #2 on: June 26, 2008, 10:54:56 pm
I really like the idea actually, as long as it isn't priced much higher than the NES games on the virtual console ($4-5). It's like releasing one of the Megaman games on the VC, but it's new. The NES Megaman games were the best ones anyway.

Offline Cow

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #3 on: June 27, 2008, 01:33:55 am
...or maybe I'm just exceedingly bitter with games nowadays and I find it impossible to look forward to anything.

Because that is a very real possibility.

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #4 on: June 27, 2008, 02:31:57 am
That is an excellent idea! I bet the people who made that MM7 in nes will be all over this once it's out.

Anyone else get the feel that the developers just think 8bit=crappy graphics though? the tiling in the screens seems quite uncreative, like the graphic quality went back all the way to what it was like in Megaman1....I think I even spot some recolors from old levels like Woodmans's

EDIT: Megaman fans...PREPARE TO LAUGH YOUR ASS OFF!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EG_GnjntufY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4D25DTON-Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdr_gc_Z3SU


Remember those B&W Anime Gifs that used to be about chickens shitting explosive eggs? it seems now they are AMVs with original graphics and audio....and these feature the geekiest Megaman mishaps you could possibly imagine =O
« Last Edit: June 28, 2008, 07:22:10 am by Conceit »

Offline rdcarvallo

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #5 on: June 30, 2008, 04:27:23 pm
Airman ga taosenai is the best!!!

I wanto to see the new bosses sprites... hope they aren't edits that could be banned here.



EDIT: typo home -> hope
« Last Edit: July 01, 2008, 02:18:19 pm by rdcarvallo »

Offline Evil-Ville

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #6 on: July 01, 2008, 12:28:25 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUVdA9ABzpg

Non-engrish version of the third video.

Offline Froli

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #7 on: July 01, 2008, 09:54:42 am
Love the videos  ;D One of my old faves is Okkusenman

Offline Lee N

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #8 on: July 07, 2008, 07:57:47 pm
First video of MegaMan 9..

http://www.filedropper.com/rockman9

edit: ujpdated with a working link.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 09:51:40 pm by Lee N »

Offline MrMister

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #9 on: July 07, 2008, 09:03:10 pm
capcom reduced to putting out rom hacks. great
it might be a one shot deal

Offline QuickSilva

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #10 on: July 08, 2008, 08:08:57 am
Here`s a YouTube link. Looks a lot like Megaman 2 to me which is a good thing. Graphics currently aren`t as nice as the later games in my opinion. I also hear that they are going to reuse some of the tunes from Megaman 2, again that`s fine as they are great tunes but I hope that there is plenty of new stuff too. I saw somewhere that you are going to be able to play as Megaman without his helmet like in the Megaman 2 intro scene. Should be great for fans. Lots of unlockables too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPwB0q20KkU

Jason.

Offline chriskot

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #11 on: July 09, 2008, 06:20:46 am
I think that the main reason that I like the idea is because Capcom had the choice of quickly putting one of the old MM games on the Virtual console for some quick money, or doing something new for the folks who'd like to play something that they haven't before. Sure it doesn't take a lot of effort, but it's more effort then Capcom had to put out and plenty of people would rather play some new levels instead of the same ones over again.

That said, I just read a few minutes ago that Capcom has decided to price the game at 1000 Wii points (that's about $10 in most places). I guess that it seems fairly reasonable. For comparison, here are the prices (in Wii points, as I remember them) set for old games re-released on the VC.

NES: 400
GENESIS: 600
TG16: 600
SNES: 800
NEO-GEO: 900
N64: 1000

What do you think?

Offline Ben2theEdge

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #12 on: July 09, 2008, 01:37:28 pm
I hate to be a whiner, but I'm actually a little bit dissapointed.
I'm really glad they went retro with this game - the original Megaman sprite is like the paradigm of pixel art. And I still think it's a cool idea, but the screenshots that have been coming out aren't anywhere near as pretty as Megaman 6, which was one of the sexiest-looking games for the NES. In fact Capcom put out a bunch of really beautiful NES games that all pushed the envelope for that that system could do. But with this one it looks like they're either mostly rehashing old unused assets from the last 6 NES games, or their artists just aren't putting much effort into it. I keep hoping the next batch of screenshots will look better because this is too cool of an idea to go half-heartedly with.
I mild from suffer dislexia.

Offline Cow

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #13 on: July 09, 2008, 05:11:44 pm
I hate to be a whiner, but I'm actually a little bit dissapointed.
I'm really glad they went retro with this game - the original Megaman sprite is like the paradigm of pixel art. And I still think it's a cool idea, but the screenshots that have been coming out aren't anywhere near as pretty as Megaman 6, which was one of the sexiest-looking games for the NES. In fact Capcom put out a bunch of really beautiful NES games that all pushed the envelope for that that system could do. But with this one it looks like they're either mostly rehashing old unused assets from the last 6 NES games, or their artists just aren't putting much effort into it. I keep hoping the next batch of screenshots will look better because this is too cool of an idea to go half-heartedly with.
My thoughts exactly.

Offline vierbit

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #14 on: July 09, 2008, 06:06:26 pm
Maybe because Im not a huge megaman fan,
but I dont see much sense to release a mainline megaman as a download game. Its also not acceptable why it looks
worser (I know its intended to look like an NES game!) than the prequels. Why not making magaman 9 on a good
16/32 bit standard is beyond me, espeally for Capcom.
Its sounds harsh but from the videos a saw it looks like a romhack to me.
 

Offline rdcarvallo

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #15 on: July 10, 2008, 02:52:31 pm
Now that more images have surfaced, we can talk about the direction this game is taking.

To make a better comparison of the game graphics, I have been playing the NES games in the Anniversary Collection in my PS2, currently, 2 bosses left in MM1, 5 in MM2, 4 in MM3, and MM4 was finished in one sitting.

I'm a huge Rockman fan, and as many others I found MM2 a masterpiece, but my favorite games are MM3 and MM4, for the gameplay mechanics that introduced (Slide and Rockbuster).

In all the screens shown so far, I have not seen slides nor buster shots... this makes me worry, they aren't simply downgrading the graphics from the last games, but also the gameplay.

I dont see much sense to release a mainline megaman as a download game.

I agree completely with this, a game all the fans have been waiting so long, should not be released as a download.

Offline huZba

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #16 on: July 10, 2008, 03:13:15 pm
I don't really see any other option besides downloadable game to be honest. If they made it with new graphics they'd have to aim for handhelds, but DS is already saturated with megaman games and on the PSP they already did Maverick hunter X and Megaman Powered up, which are great games but didn't sell enough.

Like ben said, it seems they're not pushing the graphics, but i say we need  to see more than just a few teases to get any kind of idea what the game will be.

Offline .TakaM

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #17 on: July 10, 2008, 03:23:34 pm
Capcom still has plenty of time to improve the graphics right?
And I think it's safe to say that it's been a while since capcom worked on graphics like this so I'd expect them to take a while to get back into the groove.

And yeah, I think wiiware is the best option, or any downloadable service for that matter.
I think we all like the idea of a megaman 9 finally being done and with NES graphics no less, but I think we all know on no other format would the typical gamer find this acceptable.

Take the new Wario Land for example, it looks beautiful, but they're still saying "it should be on wiiware/DS"
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Offline Luzeke

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #18 on: July 11, 2008, 12:00:03 am
Being a total Mega Man fan, this is just gold to me!  ;D

I like the fact that it's going on WiiWare, and with NES graphics. It just makes sense. The series started on NES, which other console would be a better match for a new NES-ish game in the series than the one where the controller actually resembles the NES one? Plus, that it's a new game. I wouldn't wanna spend Wii Points on the old games since I already own both anniversary collections, so seing this tickles my fanboy senses. (I know I'm saying stuff already said, but I need to get it out of the system :P)

I think Capcom will do the series right with the graphics. I mean, the one constant in the series besides gameplay is the graphics. It's always been more than decent, even for some of the more stupid spinn-offs.

I hope they don't re-use to much music. Boss battle music and such stuff would be ok, but I wouldn't wanna hear Metal Man's theme on another level than just that level.

However, I'm looking forward to this release!  :D
« Last Edit: July 11, 2008, 12:05:39 am by Luzeke »

Offline Lee N

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #19 on: July 11, 2008, 01:41:01 am

Offline QuickSilva

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #20 on: July 11, 2008, 08:05:40 am
Yep, definitely looking like Megaman 2. Should be really good! I also hear things like the slide and charge up shot are still in the game but must be earned first. I wonder if the whole game will follow NES restrictions or whether they will eliminate slowdown and so on. Should be interesting.

Jason. 

Offline .TakaM

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #21 on: July 11, 2008, 12:27:13 pm
yeah I'd expect so, haven't seen any sprite flickering so far.
Pretty sure that fire dragon boss would cause some flickering or slowdown on real NES hardware

and it looks like it is coming to all 3 downloadable services, not much of a surprise there
Life without knowledge is death in disguise

Offline Luzeke

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #22 on: July 11, 2008, 02:57:37 pm
Since it seems they'll (maybe) be working outside of NES restrictions one thing they could do that would be neat is to make music for the game with more than the 5 original channels.

Offline QuickSilva

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #23 on: July 11, 2008, 06:42:35 pm
I like the original NES music limitations. I think that if you break too many rules it will no longer feel like an authentic NES game.

Jason.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2008, 06:11:20 pm by QuickSilva »

Offline Luzeke

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #24 on: July 13, 2008, 04:56:34 pm
Don't get me wrong, I think making chiptunes 'with' the limitations is awesome. Even more awesome if it sounds really really good. But I think that they could make something cool with more channels and stuff, which would still sound "chiptune-ish"

I got inspired by Megaman 9 and started messing around in Fruity Loops. I think it's a good example of what I meant as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xskRueBSbQI

Offline dragonboy

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #25 on: July 31, 2008, 05:41:19 pm
I can understand why they're doing in NES style graphics than SNES style.  NES always looked really "perfect" and you knew you were getting "true retro graphics."  SNES was a little sloppy compared to NES, because every game had a seperate set of colors used and games often had a lot of inconsistancies in the color palettes.  In NES games you had 4 colors per tile and using all four colors for every tile looked very nice, but with SNES you had 16 colors per tile but if you have 16 colors crammed into little 8x8 squares it wouldn't look very nice and most of the time your not going to use all 16 of them.

Offline ptoing

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #26 on: July 31, 2008, 05:55:18 pm
Totally offtopic here, but dragonboy, could you PLEASE use paragraphs, because your posts are painful to read.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline dragonboy

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #27 on: July 31, 2008, 10:06:26 pm
How was I off topic?  This thread is about 8-bit, and I was talking about 8-bit.

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #28 on: July 31, 2008, 10:37:36 pm
jesus. PTOING was offtopic, by telling you to PLEASE use paragraphs. Because you know, grammar isnt the topic here, Megaman9 is.

Offline chriskot

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #29 on: August 05, 2008, 05:06:37 am
I just read that MM9's going to have an option that allows you to turn on/off NES errors like sprite flickering. Awesome.

Offline Dusty

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #30 on: August 05, 2008, 05:12:34 am
Heh... why would they even have it? I figure they were coding it from scratch... and I didn't think they had those limitations anymore, but I guess they left it in for nostalgic reasons or something?

Offline chriskot

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #31 on: August 05, 2008, 08:17:07 am
I think that the option is included to make it seem like an even more authentic NES game, although it's off by default to make the game more playable. It's a neat little addition though.

Offline Luzeke

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #32 on: August 05, 2008, 09:34:48 am
Maybe there'll be a hard mode simulating "semi-broken cartridge"  :P

Offline L___E___T

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #33 on: August 05, 2008, 10:27:26 am

Read this guys   -   it clears up alot about design issues, namely why it's looking alot like Megaman 2, and goes on to explain about the optional glitches in game (flickering + slowdown etc)

very interesting:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3752/he_is_8bit_capcoms_hironobu_.php?page=1
_¬-¬-¬-¬¬_`--_¬--__¬_-_¬_-____/

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #34 on: August 05, 2008, 08:39:11 pm

LMAO! I soooo want that

Offline Helm

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #35 on: August 05, 2008, 09:21:32 pm
Quote
Of course, the technical aspects were a little harder, especially with the graphics. Mr. Inafune wanted it to be simple, like the old, early Mega Man games, but the staff, for whatever reason, kept making it more complex.

The details in the graphics were just too much for what an 8-bit game was, so he had to tell them to redo almost half of it at one point, because they were making it too complex. He said, "Make it simple. Bring it back to the basics."

I don't like this attitude. That retro means 'simple' and symbolic. I generally find this 'retro revival' thing awful. For someone that loves these games, they never went 'retro', they were always live for them. It's disingenuous.

Offline AdamAtomic

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #36 on: August 05, 2008, 09:32:38 pm
Just to play the devil's advocate, I think in games like Megaman or other "hardcore" shooters or jump-and-runs, simplicity is a HUGE boon for the gameplay.  I think a big reason why the Megaman X games play so much easier is that they HAD to back off on the difficulty because their colorful, complex 16-bit graphics were too distracting.

Offline Helm

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #37 on: August 05, 2008, 09:36:23 pm
I don't think Megaman 6 plays any worse because of better art. Can you show me specific examples in-game where it does? It's just a sprite on a static screen, it can't really get too complicated whatever you throw at it.

Offline AdamAtomic

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #38 on: August 05, 2008, 09:52:17 pm
I was referring more to the SNES megamans (megamen?)...i don't have any explanation for why it doesn't look as good as megaman 6 :)

Offline huZba

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #39 on: August 05, 2008, 10:43:38 pm
Quote
Of course, the technical aspects were a little harder, especially with the graphics. Mr. Inafune wanted it to be simple, like the old, early Mega Man games, but the staff, for whatever reason, kept making it more complex.

The details in the graphics were just too much for what an 8-bit game was, so he had to tell them to redo almost half of it at one point, because they were making it too complex. He said, "Make it simple. Bring it back to the basics."

I don't like this attitude. That retro means 'simple' and symbolic. I generally find this 'retro revival' thing awful. For someone that loves these games, they never went 'retro', they were always live for them. It's disingenuous.
Isn't that just to try and keep within the nes limitations? Also isn't removing features a rather good thing cause it forces them to thoroughly think through the basics instead of taping in new (often useless) features that end up hurting the overall experience (gah megaman ZX suffers from a lot of things like this) Isn't that what most restrictive environments are about anyway? Stuff like making a pixel art piece in just 8 colors needs to excel in basic things just like a nes game when you can't glue in stuff.

Adam, i seriously don't see what you're trying to say. Megaman X1 and 2 are some of the most solid games when it comes to treshold play. X3 was broken though.

Offline AdamAtomic

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #40 on: August 05, 2008, 10:56:44 pm
I'm not saying megaman x is bad, by any means, but it is waaaay easier than any of megaman 1-6, that is all.

Offline Helm

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #41 on: August 05, 2008, 11:43:32 pm
There's nothing in the NES that makes you draw simple and repetitive graphics. Batman was made on the NES. Shatterhand too. And Megaman 6 looks much, much better than the new game.

Offline LoTekK

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #42 on: August 06, 2008, 03:58:39 am

Good god that background (right side, Megaman 9) hurts my eyes. :huh:

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #43 on: August 06, 2008, 04:08:01 am
it's obvious that the aproach has had it's deminishing qualities, but I do see some charming and interesting stuff going on...a kind of design we dont see anymore, like that flower in one of the screenshots of the article.

This wont really feel like NES I think, but hopefully it will be interesting anyway

Offline QuickSilva

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #44 on: August 06, 2008, 07:38:20 am
I very much doubt that it will achieve what it is setting out to do, to better Megaman 2, but I`m still really looking forward to playing it.

I like the designers view when he says that if a game is 8-Bit, 16-Bit or whatever doesn`t really matter as long as it fits in with the creators view of how the game should look. I wish this were true and believe it myself but in this day and age I`m not sure that the majority of newer generation of gamers are going to be able see it in this way. It will be interesting to see how it performs. I have high hopes for it. I think that most people from my generation, the ones who grew up with NES games, will love it, others, I`m not so sure.

I also agree with Helm in what he says about using NES limitations as an excuse for bad art. There are as he lists, quite a few decent looking NES games around which were very well done.

Jason.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2008, 07:41:14 am by QuickSilva »

Offline huZba

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #45 on: August 06, 2008, 08:35:28 am
We don't really know what's the reasoning for what inafune supposedly said. I agree the screens so far definatelly aren't looking that good. If the team had made the tilesets perfectly to nes spec and still had to simplify, it's just wrong. I'd like to see what they had done before they were ordered to remake most of it.

I'm not saying megaman x is bad, by any means, but it is waaaay easier than any of megaman 1-6, that is all.
Still, not easier because of the graphics interfering  ;) . Megaman 7 took a hit from the new 16bit powers though, so that would be how you described it before.

Back in the nes days i had enough of megaman by #5 so i never played 6 until emulators came up. Now there are 120 megaman titles (stated on the capcom sales page) Most of those are shovelware or recycling. I hope mm9 isn't just another one of these "products"

Offline vierbit

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #46 on: August 06, 2008, 10:21:31 am
That retro means 'simple' and symbolic. I generally find this 'retro revival' thing awful. For someone that loves these games, they never went 'retro', they were always live for them. It's disingenuous.
This.

The whole "retro" thing is really getting out of hand. For young gamers it probably looks like all pre 1995 games were extremely simple,
without any storys, great ideas and can be played trough in a couple of minutes.
Dont get me wrong, im not whining after "the old times",just my 2 cents.

I already said it here, but why should it look worser than 7 or 8, hell it looks even worser than 6.
A good 16bit standard and i was fine with it. Its not like it demands a army of graphic artists.

I'm not saying megaman x is bad, by any means, but it is waaaay easier than any of megaman 1-6, that is all.

Well, i had a really hard time with it though :huh:
   

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #47 on: August 06, 2008, 01:15:42 pm
Yeah I was really sad to hear that they forced the artists to tone down the detail. It seems like a decision that was made in fear of 14-year-old knowitalls who would look at the game and say "NES couldn't do that! *snort*" And we'll probably never get to see this beautiful pixel art that was scrapped!  :'(
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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #48 on: August 06, 2008, 06:26:23 pm
All this does is reassure me that campcom is one of the laziest game companies around these days. the fact taht the graphics are needlessly simplistic, even by NES standards, doesn't prove this point any more than the fact that capcom used the *SAME* morrigan sprite in *every* game she was in for well over ten years, even when other sprites got at least mild upgrades.

Personally, i think this is capcom trying to make a quick buck with minimal expenditures. if tehy'd just come out and say that i'd probably have alot more respect for them.

Offline chriskot

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #49 on: August 06, 2008, 07:06:17 pm
Quote
Of course, the technical aspects were a little harder, especially with the graphics. Mr. Inafune wanted it to be simple, like the old, early Mega Man games, but the staff, for whatever reason, kept making it more complex.

The details in the graphics were just too much for what an 8-bit game was, so he had to tell them to redo almost half of it at one point, because they were making it too complex. He said, "Make it simple. Bring it back to the basics."

I don't like this attitude. That retro means 'simple' and symbolic. I generally find this 'retro revival' thing awful. For someone that loves these games, they never went 'retro', they were always live for them. It's disingenuous.

I think (or at least I'm hoping) that he meant that they wanted it to look like the other 8-bit megaman games. They could add more detail and make the game prettier, but it wouldn't look as much like 1-6, which I suppose they figure would take away from the nostalgia factor that they're trying to achieve.

Just throwing that out there. Even if this is the case, I'm still not saying that I necessarily agree with it.

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #51 on: August 06, 2008, 07:37:41 pm

Couldn´t resist :-[.

Offline Dusty

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #52 on: August 06, 2008, 07:49:58 pm
Perhaps they're aiming for the quality of MM2 because a lot more people are familiar with it over MM6. I dunno, I really like those clockwork tiles posted earlier from MM2 though.

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #53 on: August 06, 2008, 08:06:32 pm
Corsair: You are being incredibly unfair to Inafune with his vision. There might be other aspects of the development that ARE making the game cheap with the thoughtlessly done tiles, but if inafune holds a meeting and tells people to re-do their work that is definitively NOT out of lazyness. He's clearly attempting to do something you dont understand, and if you dont understand it then dont condemn it.

There is one thing that you all might be missing here, and it is that in a way megman2 is almost indy. It was not developed in their "day-job" per se, they were always working on it after hours as their dream project, somewhat like Shantae and Wayforward.....so there is a lot of love put into that game, and the people who made it were very honestly trying to make it look it's best, that's why it's so often considered a favorite

I was one of the first to complain about the lack of megaman6 quality in this game, but having head of Inafune calling a meeting to re-do the graphics, I  agree with the idea of going to the basics and keeping the designs simple, I do think that megaman designs were better when they were more about the basic shapes than all the blinking lights and CLUTTER


I mean would that guy REALLY look better if you put a bunch of blinking lights and clutter on him? I'm hoping that's the kind of thing that Inafune corrected in the meeting, to take CLUTTER out of the designs.

Some of the screens in the article give me hope that it was the case

That goofy flower right there, and the background that makes a circle around the center...it has that sort goofy simplistic charm to it.

Honestly, I'm starting to become a little more enthusiastic of the project, I really wouldnt mind if they fuck up a few backgrounds as long as overall it keeps the same kind of goofy charm

I mean, here you have megaman 2, 9 and 1. it's looking more like the cheap designless megaman1
But I'm hoping this comes down more to a spoiled team that inafune cant control on EVERY turn, rather than a lazy vision
« Last Edit: August 06, 2008, 08:56:39 pm by Conceit »

Offline Dusty

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #54 on: August 06, 2008, 08:12:38 pm
I think it just may be a matter of people working with something very unfamiliar, and not really knowing what would be 'right' or 'wrong'. I mean, not many people are familiar with working under NES restrictions, and probably even less that did when NES was around.

So in the end, you have a group of people trying to replicate something without really ever experiencing what it was like to really work under the limitations.

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #55 on: August 06, 2008, 08:15:16 pm
Perhaps they're aiming for the quality of MM2 because a lot more people are familiar with it over MM6. I dunno, I really like those clockwork tiles posted earlier from MM2 though.

...and THAT is why they're being disingenuous. They think that if it's immediately recognizable as a follow up to the most popular of the NES period Megamans, people will pick it up more. It's not about a more generalized love for the franchise or indeed for the capabilities and shortcomings of the NES. It's about consumerist demand. This retro thing is shit.

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #56 on: August 06, 2008, 08:38:55 pm
I think any pixel artist agrees that less is more, that using a few elements very well placed is better than having many and not knowing how to use it.

it's obvious this is not entirely what's going on with Megaman9, but as said the people working on this arent familiar with the enviroment and I think if Inafune is calling up meetings to make sure there isnt clutter, we should give him the benefit of the doubt until the game comes out, asume that he is going for less clutter but his team is just too spoiled to understand hiim.

Remember, Megaman2 was to Inafune like Shantae was for Wayforward, they worked on it after hours and it REALLY IS the favorite megaman game, so the focus on emulating it's desing is NOT out of lazyness, it's because that loving aproach worked....so

Give Inafune a break until we see a little more :p

Offline chriskot

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #57 on: August 06, 2008, 08:49:53 pm
Megaman 6 came out on the NES. It has better graphics than most NES games, and indeed, Megaman 1-5 in my opinion. Does it not strike a nostalgic chord? And also be very very well done?
Oops. My bad. MM6 was one of the ones that I didn't play, so I had no idea that it looked that much better than the other five. Although now that I have seen that, it seems pretty safe to say that Dusty is right about the familiarity thing. They're definitely sacrificing visuals to go for a period look that more people will recognize.

It still makes some sense from a nostalgic standpoint though. Most people remember a system for the games that they played on it, not its theoretical capabilities. More people played 1-5, so more people will remember NES megaman that way.

Offline Helm

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #58 on: August 06, 2008, 08:53:58 pm
Megaman 6 came out on the NES. It has better graphics than most NES games, and indeed, Megaman 1-5 in my opinion. Does it not strike a nostalgic chord? And also be very very well done?
Oops. My bad. MM6 was one of the ones that I didn't play, so I had no idea that it looked that much better than the other five. Although now that I have seen that, it seems pretty safe to say that Dusty is right about the familiarity thing. They're definitely sacrificing visuals to go for a period look that more people will recognize.

It still makes some sense from a nostalgic standpoint though. Most people remember a system for the games that they played on it, not its theoretical capabilities. More people played 1-5, so more people will remember NES megaman that way.

But that's the thing now. Do you think anyone would be even one iota less excited for this game if it looked like Megaman 6 or better? Or would they be more excited? Buuuut... which is the easier one to make, and which will generate more instant nostalgia sales?

Offline ndchristie

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #59 on: August 06, 2008, 09:03:42 pm
my only real fear - and it might not be the popular fear on this board - will the GAME be as good as the old ones?  AND - in an age where everyone has emulators and other stuff that already lets them play the old ones for free - what is this game doing to make it worth buying?

I honestly think it's going to end up as collector's item because after the first few thousand people will realize that it's nothing that they didn't have before, and that it was made with half the love.

why make a megaman with graphics that are kinda like the old game, only not made by people who specialize in that style?  why make a game that plays the same when you could toss in, i dunno, a little innovation in the same spirit?  battlenetwork and other recent megaman games sucking has nothing to do with the technology or the visuals and everything to do with the fact that they've lost sight of the goals, and making a faux-retro title won't bring them any closer to the original spirit than they already aren't.

btw - answer is probably obvious to people with more knowledge of the methods - but how does megaman's sprite have 6 colors?  I can't draw boxes around him in any way to get perfect 8x8 4-color pieces?


EDIT - i do realize that this game is being made not to revitalize the series but to dupe a nostalgic audience, so the questions about why make this are a bit more rhetorical than anything else :p.
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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #60 on: August 06, 2008, 09:06:47 pm
The face is an 8x8, sprites do not have to be on a grid.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Dusty

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #61 on: August 06, 2008, 09:16:28 pm
my only real fear - and it might not be the popular fear on this board - will the GAME be as good as the old ones?  AND - in an age where everyone has emulators and other stuff that already lets them play the old ones for free - what is this game doing to make it worth buying?

I honestly think it's going to end up as collector's item because after the first few thousand people will realize that it's nothing that they didn't have before, and that it was made with half the love.

why make a megaman with graphics that are kinda like the old game, only not made by people who specialize in that style?  why make a game that plays the same when you could toss in, i dunno, a little innovation in the same spirit?  battlenetwork and other recent megaman games sucking has nothing to do with the technology or the visuals and everything to do with the fact that they've lost sight of the goals, and making a faux-retro title won't bring them any closer to the original spirit than they already aren't.

btw - answer is probably obvious to people with more knowledge of the methods - but how does megaman's sprite have 6 colors?  I can't draw boxes around him in any way to get perfect 8x8 4-color pieces?


EDIT - i do realize that this game is being made not to revitalize the series but to dupe a nostalgic audience, so the questions about why make this are a bit more rhetorical than anything else :p.
Isn't this a Wiiware game? So it will probably be very cheap(1000 points). I don't think any business should take emulators and such into consideration, since it's really not legal. Also, I don't think this will be able to be emulated if it's wiiware, so they'll have to pay for it to play it.

Offline chriskot

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #62 on: August 06, 2008, 09:18:23 pm
But that's the thing now. Do you think anyone would be even one iota less excited for this game if it looked like Megaman 6 or better? Or would they be more excited? Buuuut... which is the easier one to make, and which will generate more instant nostalgia sales?

Point taken, and I definitely agree. I guess the only other point that can be made is that graphics always get better later in the cycle, so maybe the team figured that the simpler it looks, the more retro it feels? That seems like a pretty crappy excuse though.

my only real fear - and it might not be the popular fear on this board - will the GAME be as good as the old ones?  AND - in an age where everyone has emulators and other stuff that already lets them play the old ones for free - what is this game doing to make it worth buying?

I honestly think it's going to end up as collector's item because after the first few thousand people will realize that it's nothing that they didn't have before, and that it was made with half the love.
I'm pretty sure that it will be as good as the old ones. The Megaman formula doesn't seem to be something that you can mess up too much, especially if you're trying to keep it as close to the original as possible. Even so, this will probably end up as a collector's item simply because a retro-styled game like this doesn't seem like something with the mass appeal of some other titles.

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #64 on: August 06, 2008, 09:53:32 pm
i like that the demo players make sure to get shot all the time.

And i didn't mean that we'd use an emulator for megaman 9, or that it was legal, i just meant that half the world has a working copy of megaman 2 already.  What does this game bring to the table that isn't there already?


Quote
graphics always get better later in the cycle

final fantasy II :P
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Offline Dusty

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #65 on: August 06, 2008, 09:58:09 pm
Heh, the same thing that 3-6 did? Just a little different, but still new.

Offline ndchristie

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #66 on: August 06, 2008, 10:20:58 pm
Heh, the same thing that 3-6 did? Just a little different, but still new.

megaman 3 had rush :P.
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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #67 on: August 07, 2008, 05:36:20 am
EDIT: post PTOING edit for clarity!

Actual Megaman9 stages, at E3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuz-8_apUy8 Full PlugMan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIoUdJreVnY Full ConcreteMan

Megaman4 hacked to have Megaman9 Stages
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJK6b9DO2Uc&feature=user full PlugMan,partial ConcreteMan

Hahahahah. Someone is making a megaman4 hack that already has one full megaman level! I guess it goes to show how much new art is in megaman 9 O_o
« Last Edit: August 16, 2008, 03:10:26 am by Conceit »

Offline LoTekK

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #68 on: August 07, 2008, 06:06:33 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJK6b9DO2Uc&feature=user

Hahahahah. Someone is making a megaman4 hack that already has one full megaman level! I guess it goes to show how much new art is in megaman 9 O_o

Wow, that's... special. So when Takeshita says Inafune wanted the art redone to a simpler look, he really meant they wanted to reuse the old tilesets? I was already leery of this when it was first announced. This, though, is just insulting. o_O

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #69 on: August 07, 2008, 06:54:00 am
That is quite awful yes.

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #70 on: August 07, 2008, 04:32:20 pm
So what is that. The actual MM9 footage or what, I do not get it. Also I forgot how fucking good aweful the scrolling in Megaman games were. That's just painful.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #71 on: August 07, 2008, 04:35:20 pm
looks like a remake considering the second level had no enemies and was incomplete(had no end).

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #72 on: August 07, 2008, 07:29:00 pm
someone is hacking megaman 4 to have megaman 9 levels. He has completed one of them, and is haflway trough the second

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kev-MJWehXM Here's TornadoMan, HornetMan and MagmaMan's stage teasers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkte5mUduEM&feature=related The opening....Silly story all the way! I dont know wether I like that or not =/

One thing I dont really like so far is that there's lots of cheap stuff...specially in PlugMan's stage, lots of parts dont have enough room for you to jump, or make you drop into an enemy =/
« Last Edit: August 16, 2008, 03:09:54 am by Conceit »

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #73 on: August 07, 2008, 09:09:24 pm
Do you know if he copied gfx he saw from footage or are all the gfx he uses from MM4 or other MM games? If yes, that would be sad.
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Lee N

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #74 on: August 15, 2008, 11:02:04 am
Do you know if he copied gfx he saw from footage or are all the gfx he uses from MM4 or other MM games? If yes, that would be sad.
I think he copied the tile sets from the videos of Mega Man 9, the tile sets look new to me.

You can compare to the old Mega Man games here if you feel like it.
http://www.vgmaps.com/Atlas/NES/#MegaMan


edit: Here are some new screens of the game directly from Capcoms press section:

http://nihon.se/MEGAMAN9All-25477-378.zip
« Last Edit: August 15, 2008, 11:11:36 am by Lee N »

Offline .TakaM

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Re: Megaman 9 with 8-bit graphics

Reply #75 on: August 15, 2008, 11:26:38 am
someone is hacking megaman 4 to have megaman 9 levels. He has completed one of them, and is haflway trough the second

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kev-MJWehXM Here's TornadoMan, HornetMan and MagmaMan's stage teasers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkte5mUduEM&feature=related The opening....Silly story all the way! I dont know wether I like that or not =/

One thing I dont really like so far is that there's lots of cheap stuff...specially in PlugMan's stage, lots of parts dont have enough room for you to jump, or make you drop into an enemy =/
I was expecting this, but after MM9 came out
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