AuthorTopic: Official Off-Topic Thread  (Read 318634 times)

Offline The B.O.B.

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Re: Official Off-Topic Thread

Reply #330 on: August 09, 2008, 02:39:43 pm
   Amazing how asking one question about comic book suggestions can somehow segway into religious banter. What next, we turn the tides towards the cosmos and begin to find how minute we are to everything else, like a red or blue supergiant star? Honestly, I've always felt religion to be a good guide book to SOCIAL living and compromise with one another. I don't take it's words literal, only figuratively and apply them to everyday life. People who do take these words literal, are the ones who scare me. Just take it easy, and be happy. That's the one thing you can probably definitely control in your life, so why keep beating yourself down over what means what, or why we are here? We think too much...

(though one passage in the bible kinda' scares me, and it has nothing to do with devils, angels, war or hell. I think it was something along the lines of "and man should not waste his time pondering about the cosmos..."...seriously, that makes me feel as if they WANTED people to be ignorant back then...I could be wrong, or misreading it though)

*YES the first paragraph is the direct opposite as the bottom paragraph's meaning. Oh sweet irony...*
« Last Edit: August 09, 2008, 02:42:41 pm by The B.O.B. »
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Offline Evan

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Re: Official Off-Topic Thread

Reply #331 on: August 09, 2008, 02:52:41 pm
So I'm trying to get back into programming more, and I chose to start using Java. In the past, I used C++ primarily, and a little QBASIC back in the day.

I chose Java because it's mid-level (so it's powerful, but not too complicated,) it's well-documented (I got a free 700 page book online about it, and it seems pretty official,) and it's completely cross-platform, which doesn't matter for me since it's just recreational programming, but it's nice to know that Mac users and Lunix users can use mah softwarez too.

What I'm wondering, however, is why most programmers that I've encountered on the internets hate Java?

Offline Helm

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Re: Official Off-Topic Thread

Reply #332 on: August 09, 2008, 03:10:19 pm
ndchristie : your loose definitions of internal versus external are fabricated, which is alright, every definition is, but also they are dualist and will present you further in life with a lot of 'does not compute' either/or conundrums. Faith is both an internally motivated issue and an external manifestation, as if everything else blah blah blah. Not to be a pedant cuz it might have just been a matter of wording, but be wary of saying 'good things' are 'internal' and 'bad things' are 'external'. Everything you do, everything you desire is motivated by so many things, and it can turn pathologic or not. The rule of thumb is that if you see a man who is not only superficially happy (which is pretty easy, just take some dope or ride a rollecoaster) but also enduringly secure in themselves and without much of a sign of pathology in any part of their lives, then they must be doing something right and you should take a good look at their lives to see what you can understand from their approach. I think a very important part in being that person is not to be counter-defined by what other people think or society pressures you to be so much. I know this sounds very obvious but in application it is not: it takes deprogramming yourself of talking for example about celebrities, or of perpetuating cliche points of view and so on. It's not as easy as it sounds to peel off the layers of definition society constricts you to send you on your linear path of the good consumerist. You must guard your brain from these things. But on the other hand you must not become a social hermit where you're just away from the world so the world doesn't define you, it takes even more guts: you must define your environment, so that every person that chooses to step inside your life does so by accepting the challenge that "you are not like anyone else and I will do my best to show you I am not like anyone else either". This is not only difficult, it is also a very misunderstood philosophy that creates a lot of superficial animosity from strangers that are very eager to trap you in their cliche understanding of 'the stubborn egotist'.

I agree with the general sentiment of your point, however. I'm just saying, it's not just friendship or love or creativity that will make a man happy, but these things approached in a balanced and non-pathologic way. An open-ness to inspect everything we do leads to a nuanced understanding of it which while imperfect (eternally so) is at least not a hereditary cliche that is placed there to sell shit.  Deviations are as needed as the important inner quests in this sense, just approached open mindedly and critically.

JJNaas, your point of view is -again- well presented and I agree with you. I think I am one of these critical-everything-almost-solipsists that was only 'saved' in my life by urgings of other positive pursuits that didn't otherwise fit the behavioral model of the brooding existentialist. It's not something I think makes sense to suggest to anyone "if on an inner journey, be sure to pack some healthy hobbies!" exactly because it's not something people can learn to do as it were, but in any case, we see eye to eye.

Offline Dusty

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Re: Official Off-Topic Thread

Reply #333 on: August 09, 2008, 03:13:06 pm
What I'm wondering, however, is why most programmers that I've encountered on the internets hate Java?
Dunno, probably that it's interpretive language, thus it's a lot slower than compiled languages.

Offline ndchristie

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Re: Official Off-Topic Thread

Reply #334 on: August 09, 2008, 03:23:03 pm
(though one passage in the bible kinda' scares me, and it has nothing to do with devils, angels, war or hell. I think it was something along the lines of "and man should not waste his time pondering about the cosmos..."...seriously, that makes me feel as if they WANTED people to be ignorant back then...I could be wrong, or misreading it though)

it is a motif in abrahamic religion and particularly what we call the old testament, this idea that God will sometimes hide things from us for a number of reasons.  The main ones suggested are :

Ignorance is punishment for sin
Ignorance of enemies allows for the success of god's chosen people
Ignorance is blissful (this sometimes turned to be that ignorant bliss is sin...but that's another matter)

allowing yourself to pursue thought and theory too far will lead you to become negligent
allowing yourself to pursue thought and theory too far will lead you to become arrogant
allowing yourself to pursue thought and theory too far will lead you to question your faith in God

Now that last one is not to say that science demands God not exist, or that God demands science not exist.  Most devout, intelligent people will attest that to deny the existence of God is to live an empty life, while to deny the accuracy of science is to live in ignorance and therefor be sinful.  Both amount to taking God's gifts for granted.  Therefor, a scientific knowledge of the universe is not an attack against God, but is created and provided by God as the ultimate test of our faith, and that a person who can understand and appreciate the scientific world but maintain their faith in God is the most true follower.

Food for thought.



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Helm - As usual, the easiest way to present an idea is through a simple dichotomy, and you're right, nothing is that simple.  You've also had a bit of a misreading there : being internally defined is not being counter-defined or ignoring the external, and I would never say that it is.  If you're just going to do the opposite of what you're told, there's nothing internal there, it is merely, like you said, being defined by the external in a negative manner.  And yeah, there's nothing healthy about running away or blindly rejecting things.  Still, there's nothing healthy about blindly accepting, either.

I think that there are not so many terrible do-not-computes though, as the devision is one of intention, not of manifestation.  It's a matter of approach - you need to come at everything with an understanding that you are coming as yourself, and that you are vulnerable but opportune in that state.  To make things particularly banal, a person who plays football or watches anime purely because they should or shouldn't (external pressure) gains nothing, a person who does either because of a genuine desire (internal pressure) may further themselves thereby.  If you choose your friends purely because of their station (external pressure), they will never be as good or as powerful as someone befriended by a true (internal) sense of affection.  (And yeah, I'm trying to say purely because nothing is ever pure, so it softens the dichotomy a bit.)

This also touches on the idea I've been mentioning that happiness is, at it's core, another set of paradoxes : being vulnerable, yet unafraid to lose, trusting, yet not reliant, adoring, but not obsessive, etc.  Which also makes life complicated.



In general, I'm a very accepting person, despite my laying out everything as rules :).
« Last Edit: August 09, 2008, 03:44:17 pm by ndchristie »
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Offline JJ Naas

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Re: Official Off-Topic Thread

Reply #335 on: August 09, 2008, 03:34:15 pm

Now that last one is not to say that science demands God not exist, or that God demands science not exist.

Science doesn't demand anything. It's only a method for finding out facts about the universe. Richard Dawkins has said that if God exists and has created the universe and directs evolution, then God is such a prominent, directly infcluencing force in the universe that God can also be studied using the scientific method. However, God cannot be studied scientifically (or there's no point) before the existence of the phenomena has been established first.

Offline Helm

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Re: Official Off-Topic Thread

Reply #336 on: August 09, 2008, 03:39:45 pm
just a small point, without the desire to stir up any controversy

Quote
Now that last one is not to say that science demands God not exist, or that God demands science not exist.  Most devout, intelligent people will attest that to deny the existence of God is to live an empty life, while to deny the accuracy of science is to live in ignorance and therefor be sinful.  Both amount to taking God's gifts for granted.  Therefor, a scientific knowledge of the universe is not an attack against God, but is created and provided by God as the ultimate test of our faith, and that a person who can understand and appreciate the scientific world but maintain their faith in God is the most true follower.

I don't know what this god thing you're talking about is. All my life people talked about this God thing in such a serious voice that in fear of becoming a joke I defined myself through what it seemed that thing is. But now I am older and stronger and I do not define myself against anything and I have to say I do not know what that word means, at all.

Offline ndchristie

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Re: Official Off-Topic Thread

Reply #337 on: August 09, 2008, 03:51:48 pm
just a small point, without the desire to stir up any controversy

Quote
Now that last one is not to say that science demands God not exist, or that God demands science not exist.  Most devout, intelligent people will attest that to deny the existence of God is to live an empty life, while to deny the accuracy of science is to live in ignorance and therefor be sinful.  Both amount to taking God's gifts for granted.  Therefor, a scientific knowledge of the universe is not an attack against God, but is created and provided by God as the ultimate test of our faith, and that a person who can understand and appreciate the scientific world but maintain their faith in God is the most true follower.

I don't know what this god thing you're talking about is. All my life people talked about this God thing in such a serious voice that in fear of becoming a joke I defined myself through what it seemed that thing is. But now I am older and stronger and I do not define myself against anything and I have to say I do not know what that word means, at all.

you're probably talking about the "religious god," which in my opinion, is the greatest destroyer (or preventer) of faith.  "He" is something that exists purely in dogma, in ritual, and in blind following.  I'm talking about a different God who is a part of us all, who nobody really knows (so long as we are trapped in a physical body), and the only way to find out anything about who he is is by asking nobody but yourself.  Not knowing anything is way better than being told what to think.


Again, to avoid controversy and being misunderstood, it is easily possible to have faith and follow a religion, so long as faith comes first and ritual second.
A mistake is a mistake.
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Offline Helm

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Re: Official Off-Topic Thread

Reply #338 on: August 09, 2008, 03:55:43 pm
It's quite loaded to give the name 'God' to your inner... something. It sort of invites friction with believers of religious deities if you think about it.

Offline The B.O.B.

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Re: Official Off-Topic Thread

Reply #339 on: August 09, 2008, 04:05:21 pm
For the safety of ignorant bliss, I think the whole religious thing should be dropped before someone starts getting offended. No harm is ever meant of it, but eventually someone has a problem with it...
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