AuthorTopic: Anatomy help... again (and tiles)  (Read 13852 times)

Offline Tarenken

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Anatomy help... again (and tiles)

on: June 16, 2008, 12:47:47 am
Like I said before I'm really terrible at anatomy and Metaru from PJ is always getting on my case about not improving from looking at references and yadda yadda... So yeah. Here I am.   :ouch:

Refs:
http://www.dokuganryu.com/scans/megaten/p3/art71.jpg
http://www.dokuganryu.com/scans/megaten/p3/art53.jpg
http://human-anatomy-for-artist.com/img/tn/herbert_02_fighting/bg_herbert_fighting_21.JPG - nudity
Help? Please?

EDITS:

new version of the above. Trying to bypass anatomy on this piece until I get better at it. D:


tiles! supposed to be simple, they're kinda mimicing the style of Dragon Warrior Monsters, but with a newer look. for Abscure's next game.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2008, 01:48:54 am by Tarenken »

Offline MrMister

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Re: Anatomy help... again

Reply #1 on: June 16, 2008, 03:17:24 am
you're referencing both an anime girl and a real man?? that's probably a problem
it might be a one shot deal

Offline Tarenken

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Re: Anatomy help... again

Reply #2 on: June 16, 2008, 03:23:09 am
...the anime character's a little boy.
I doubt you could find images of little boys in different poses on the internet...

some edits.

Offline AlexHW

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Re: Anatomy help... again

Reply #3 on: June 16, 2008, 03:54:40 am
its easy to say that your anatomy is off and it is that which is the problem. I however will say that anatomy is not your problem. You have to train yourself in simpler concepts which are the building blocks for higher-level stuff such as anatomy.
what basic art concepts/skills have you practiced? if we know this, then we can better understand where to lead you. there's alot of information and lessons and etc you can find online or in art books. all it takes is an inquisitive mind and the effort to go out of your way to pregressively build upon what you understand with what you already know. Ask yourself what you dont know and you may find areas to which you may need more exploration.

Offline Tarenken

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Re: Anatomy help... again

Reply #4 on: June 16, 2008, 04:50:14 am
I understand what you're saying, but what am I going to do until i get good at anatomy? Draw squares every day?  :blind:
Basic art skills... I draw a lot of humans, pretty much. They start out as circles for the body and head, and ovals for the arms.
What I don't know... I honestly have no idea. Perspective? I try drawing people in different poses based on references I see but that never seems to help.

Offline Froli

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Re: Anatomy help... again

Reply #5 on: June 16, 2008, 06:01:22 am
Looking at your other thread
http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=6479.msg75854#msg75854

I see a lot of problems in
Anatomy (current issue)
dynamic stance
Proper application of Light source/ volume / shading
Color choice
Readability
Anti alias
Character design

What alex said is true, basic skills is the answer to your problems. I see a lot of people jumping over some advance stuff and can't even comprehend where to start.

I understand what you're saying, but what am I going to do until i get good at anatomy? Draw squares every day?

Try objects with simple shape and form. like marbles, gems, boxes, pyramids etc.. applying all the stuff you learned so far until you can do this in an "almost" effortless manner. Is it pointless? I don't think so, specially if you were able to make good looking sprites with such items. I'm sure all the accumulated knowledge will connect together and you will be able to apply this into your future artwork.
And I really consider anatomy as advanced, specially with the measurements, shapes and the movements the human body can do.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2008, 01:13:41 pm by Froli »

Offline 32

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Re: Anatomy help... again

Reply #6 on: June 16, 2008, 07:54:01 am
i think drawing stickmen is a good way to learn anatomy, its such a simple thing to draw and if you do it enough you will figure out the basic anatomy of a human, then you can start drawing shapes around the lines, a good early combo is circle head triangle body oval arms and legs, then eventually start adding more correct forms.

sorry if it sounds like im treating you like a 4 year old but its how i learnt...

Offline Anything!

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Re: Anatomy help... again

Reply #7 on: June 16, 2008, 11:02:45 am
Work on your other one!

Your other one is a small piece. Once you get that perfected, you should move on to bigger pieces. D:

... Well, that, and I want to help you with your other one.

Offline Tarenken

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Re: Anatomy help... again

Reply #8 on: June 16, 2008, 02:43:31 pm
...my other one? That was for a game that's been put on hold, there's really no reason to work on it anymore... also I thought it was about as done as I could get it...  :blind:
As for basic shapes, what am I supposed to do? I honestly don't want to draw them because it'll bore me out of my mind... they're not very interesting subject matter. All my friends who do art never had to practice shapes, why do I..? Am I just inferior or something...?  :-[
I'm just not good at art... I've thought of quitting because people tell me I just can't grasp it, but others tell me not to quit because I find it fun... I'm so confused...  :(

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Anatomy help... again

Reply #9 on: June 16, 2008, 03:06:46 pm
dont be silly, we're not telling you to draw random circles and triangles.

every piece of art that kicks ass, does so because below the clothes, the faces...whatever you're seeing there's an structure made of circles triangles, trapezoids, squares...etc. go and look at one and try to see the basic shapes below, then think of your pieces that way.

Offline Tarenken

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Re: Anatomy help... again

Reply #10 on: June 16, 2008, 03:25:19 pm
Casti made me a paintover but I know if I keep working that way I'll never improve.  :(


Legs are circles to show you guys how I usually work.

Offline AlexHW

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Re: Anatomy help... again

Reply #11 on: June 16, 2008, 03:33:00 pm
you have to learn how to interpret what you see and draw what you see, not what you think you see. focusing on simpler objects and primitive forms allows an easy starting ground for practicing this skill as there isn't alot of complex details that can distract you and cause you to become confused.

Offline Anything!

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Re: Anatomy help... again

Reply #12 on: June 16, 2008, 07:55:05 pm

Offline Tarenken

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Re: Anatomy help... again

Reply #13 on: June 16, 2008, 09:24:37 pm
I've been told that... but I've always wanted to make something big and impressive... and I want to make it before the motivation goes away... sadly something smaller would just end up looking like a game sprite.  :blind:

edit *sigh*

Offline HughSpectrum

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Re: Anatomy help... again

Reply #14 on: June 16, 2008, 09:30:22 pm
I'm not really experienced in anatomy, but maybe you could try putting yourself in the desired pose as a reference?

Offline chriskot

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Re: Anatomy help... again

Reply #15 on: June 16, 2008, 10:28:25 pm
I'm not too experienced with anatomy either, but without knowing the gender of the character and the pose you're going for, here's a few things I can offer:

-The right forearm is too short and the hand on the end is small.
-The knees are lower than they should be.
-Your character has no heels on his/her feet.
-The hood on the shirt is a bit small. It doesn't look like it would fit over your character's head.

Those are a few suggestions that come to mind immediately. Again, I could offer a bit more if I knew more of what you were going for. I'm fairly sure that there's at least one comprehensive anatomy thread around somewhere, but I can't find it right now. Maybe someone else can point you in the right direction. Although I'd have to agree with the people above that you should start smaller. I know that you want to produce something big before the motivation disappears, but the motivation always returns eventually, and if you get some other sort of practice in, you be better prepared for this when the urge returns.

Then again, that's just my two cents. I have to admit that in all of the time I've done pixel art, I don't think I've actually tried to do a single image that big before.

Offline Anything!

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Re: Anatomy help... again

Reply #16 on: June 16, 2008, 11:08:26 pm
You can make something big. But definitely not impressive if you're not willing to wait and take baby-steps.

I don't think it'd look like a game sprite at all.

Well, take the advice above first. And also, realize that the limbs are usually evenly-spaced; the same size. Your forearms are too short, upper arms to long, hand much too small, torso I think is too long, calves too small, no feet at all, really. Most of them were mentioned above while I was typing down this post. His right arm is also... a noodle. o___o I'm wondering where his elbow is. Ah, his thighs too thick, butt too low.

Uh, but if you're /really/ meaning to stick with this... -shrug- Here's some help. It's still anatomically incorrect, but it's a step in kinda the right direction.

Offline Tarenken

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Re: Anatomy help... again

Reply #17 on: June 17, 2008, 02:36:23 am
Okay, one thing I need to clear up before I show you guys my new WIP:
the character in the last thing was a young boy. He appears again in this incarnation of the pixel, on our left:



I decided to go for something that would skip the anatomy of the body altogether. P: I just don't think I'm skilled at it enough to do that.
I'll be focusing more on color in this piece... probably greyscale, orange, and maybe some red. This would be probably my first piece that would be more focused on color than outlines... any suggestions?

Offline JJ Naas

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Re: Anatomy help... again

Reply #18 on: June 17, 2008, 03:26:26 pm

I decided to go for something that would skip the anatomy of the body altogether. P: I just don't think I'm skilled at it enough to do that.


There, you see? That's what's stopping you developing in drawing anatomy. Don't draw things that you consider easy to draw, draw stuff that you find difficult. Like Parappa, "You gotta believe!" :)




Offline Larwick

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Re: Anatomy help... again

Reply #19 on: June 18, 2008, 01:46:43 am
Are you drawing these with a tablet or a mouse? If it's the latter i can understand how you could be finding it very difficult to easily learn anatomy this way. With pen and paper you can sketch up a load of doodles really quickly, learning from your mistakes as you go, where as with something like this it's much slower, more awkward and harder to work with. I'd suggest learning anatomy in a traditional way, then coming back to this later, you'll find it much easier then imo.

Offline Tarenken

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Re: Anatomy help... again

Reply #20 on: June 18, 2008, 07:21:03 pm
But if i draw difficult stuff it won't come out looking good.  :-[
Also, I'm using a tablet. D:

Offline Atnas

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Re: Anatomy help... again

Reply #21 on: June 18, 2008, 07:28:47 pm
But if i draw difficult stuff it won't come out looking good.  :-[

 :huh: You don't have to show anyone the bad ones. And everyone started out drawing things that weren't very good. It's practice and insight that lead to improvement.

Whatever you draw, we've seen worse. And it doesn't hurt to get critiqued either. :)

I'm sure at least five people will provide you with examples of how to improve your anatomy if you post a sketch. It's probably one of the easiest ways to learn.

Offline Helm

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Re: Anatomy help... again

Reply #22 on: June 18, 2008, 07:45:41 pm
'showing people the bad ones' is what we do here  ::)

Don't worry. We don't bite.  :)

Also, an anatomy non-pixel-art thread will be made soon in the general forum for all your such needs for critique. We do a lot of anatomy sniping in this forum, it's a good idea to have a central thread too.

Offline VisMaior

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Re: Anatomy help... again

Reply #23 on: June 18, 2008, 08:31:52 pm
What I find helpful is drawing stick figures first. When Im happy with the pose and the proportions, I add mass to the sticks. Just be aware that a stick figure should have a triangle for a pelvis and an extra line for shoulders.
Let me give you an example:

Lets say I want a gladiator. He is in the middle of the fight, in a stable position, his knees bent, holding a small shield and a gladius.
A quick doodle resulted in this:


His arms are too long, his shoulders too wide. a quick edit later I have this:


Ok he is leaning a bit too far forward, he seems like falling over:


Ok thats just wrong. It looks like his back is broken. I need to move his feet forward a bit. In this step I added a little volume to be able to gague the mass better.


His legs are too short, and his upper body too long. His arms are too short again.


This looks quiet good, so lets clear him up a bit, so we can see where he is still lacking:


This is still far from really good, but its a start. We can go back a step and continue from there, or we can try fixing the outline.

There are a few points I wanted to show. Firstly, and this is very important, find a pose. The pose of your char is not very realistic. His left arm bends outward, wich is a very awkward position to hold a lance. Also, the angle of the lance seems off. Dont draw things there ust because there is more space, that will result in such poses. Secondly, you can do the doodles with multiple lines. The advantage is that if the correct line is in the bunch of lines somewhere, the brain filters it out. Thirdly, dont be afraid to use the tools you got. If you need longer legs, stretch them with the stretch tool. If your char bends forard, use the rotation tool to get him lean back a bit. With practice, you will be able to do these transformations  by hand, but for  learning and doodling, they do the job.

Offline Tarenken

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Re: Anatomy help... again (and tiles)

Reply #24 on: June 19, 2008, 01:51:05 am
I really appreciate your help, guys. It's been a while since I've had a thread this long anywhere.  ^-^
In any case... I haven't done any work on the new version of the pixelart since I haven't gotten any feedback, but while I've been waiting I've made these tiles for a game I'm making with a friend.

They're supposed to be a somewhat simple style, thought still good-looking. Any advice? The cobblestone tiles are bothering me somewhat.

Offline Ethan

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Re: Anatomy help... again (and tiles)

Reply #25 on: June 23, 2008, 02:04:10 am
They look great, especially when you put them together- it could be a little more seamless, though, but that's probably a difficult thing to do.

Offline Tarenken

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Re: Anatomy help... again (and tiles)

Reply #26 on: June 23, 2008, 02:10:06 am
Thanks Ethan, I'll keep working on the tiles.
Now, the tiles aren't the only thing I'm working... I'm taking a little break from them for now to work on this:

the limbs are bothering me, and the color choices could be a little better (though I still want the red and white in there). Crit would be appreciated.    :hehe:
« Last Edit: June 23, 2008, 04:06:52 am by Tarenken »

Offline PypeBros

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Re: Anatomy help... again (and tiles)

Reply #27 on: June 23, 2008, 06:35:57 am
it's somehow surprising to use golden colors for cobblestone, which may explain why they look so odd. I'd also suggest to use less contrast in your dirt tiles.

Offline vierbit

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Re: Anatomy help... again (and tiles)

Reply #28 on: June 23, 2008, 02:52:29 pm
If you use 16x16 tilesize they are not very efficient for now, the grid is also higly visible.
Also the dithering on the stones is a little cheap. You should also avoid working on a white background, if thats the case.
I made a little example for the tiles.

As you can see i used the dirt tiles as the base with the grass is growing on it.
For a proper dirt/grass transition you basically need at least 12 tiles.
4 corners for the "outside"
4 corners for the "inside"
4 edges
Plus one grass and dirt tile of course.
There can be more for each type(corners, edges) to eliminate repetivness.

The same technic can be also used on any other kind of transitions, like water or sand.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2010, 08:30:23 pm by vierbit »