AuthorTopic: 2D Fighter RPG (Updated fighter idle)  (Read 15615 times)

Offline Souly

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2D Fighter RPG (Updated fighter idle)

on: June 05, 2008, 12:14:34 am

I've decided to work on the weapon stances for the new character design.
I need to work on my anatomy...
As well as eventually create both male and female versions of these. D:

From left to right;
Fists(claws), Two-handed sword, One-handed and secondary(sheild,grapple), Staff, Dualies, Crossbow, Magic Book, Spear

« Last Edit: June 14, 2008, 05:09:44 am by Souly »

Offline Souly

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Re: 2D Fighter RPG (walk cycle WIP)

Reply #1 on: June 06, 2008, 02:49:42 am
A day later, and no replies.  :(
Guess I gotta start making some more animations.
Anyways, almost done the walk animation.
Totally re-did the face, I'll update the idle animation with it soon enough.
I'm aware the face doesn't move and is quite static, but since I want people to be able to change hairs and hats I kinda want to keep animation on the head to a minimal.

Offline Xion

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Re: 2D Fighter RPG (walk cycle WIP)

Reply #2 on: June 06, 2008, 02:56:58 am
Arm straightens out too much in the forward swing. Like he's reaching for something. The animation as a whole is lacking a nice fluid pendulum effect, and, as a result he looks like he's stomping. Looks like the foot is constantly perpendicular to the leg, which is unnatural. Ankles like to flex, too, ya know? Baccaman made an awesome post I think may be pertinent.
He's lacking an ass. His shoulder goes way too far down his arm. Not a fan of the huge eyes. His back-of-head is lacking in much mass.
I would choose a much less angry face for a base character. Not everyone likes to play the pissed off at the world dude. In the walking animations, his head is facing too much towards the screen. He'd get a cramp walking around like that for a long time.

Oh, you posted while I was typing. Hold up...

The new face is an improvement, much, but he still looks a bit bored.
He needs a chin, I think. his mouth just goes like "-/"
Still has no back-of-head.
Thick neck. Seems like it's a pixel too far left.
Thumb is...well, if you're going to do mitten-style hands, the "fingerspace" should be longer, otherwise it looks like he's just giving a thumbs-up all the time. This is on the back-swing, btw.
The crotch and consequentially the body are bobbing at the wrong times - when the leg is perpendicular to the ground is when he should be his tallest, when they are extended the shortest.
He's missing a far shoulder.
Don't be scared to show a little back.
When the near arm is extended forward, the chest seems ridiculously non-existent.
A little head rotation? Headtation?
« Last Edit: June 06, 2008, 03:07:52 am by Xion »

Offline Souly

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Re: 2D Fighter RPG (walk cycle WIP)

Reply #3 on: June 06, 2008, 04:53:08 am

Hopefully I fixed the arm extension, the neck, the eyes, tried giving him an ass, tried rotating his left shoulder closer, as well as add some head rotation.
I saw the problem with the crotch so I did my best to fix it.
I also gave him a ear.
As for the mitten hands, I'm hoping to give him some weapons soon enough, so I thought I'd just make them look like they're holding something.

Newest idle
Gave him an ass, and his new face.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2008, 08:00:20 am by Souly »

Offline sharprm

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Re: 2D Fighter RPG (walk cycle WIP)

Reply #4 on: June 06, 2008, 11:36:30 am
Hi, its looking good but make sure limbs aren't growing and shrinking in length. I think you'll find he isn't going up enough when his is directly below his body. Hence, the leg looks too short.

As well as keeping lengths consistent between frames, maybe overall the legs are too short.
Modern artists are told that they must create something totally original-or risk being called "derivative".They've been indoctrinated with the concept that bad=good.The effect is always the same: Meaningless primitivism
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Offline Joseph

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Re: 2D Fighter RPG (walk cycle WIP)

Reply #5 on: June 06, 2008, 06:11:39 pm
maybe bend his toes, it's too robotic.

Offline Souly

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Re: 2D Fighter RPG (walk cycle WIP)

Reply #6 on: June 07, 2008, 11:46:10 pm

I suck at attack animations. :(
The engine at the moment is only allowing me to use 4 frames for an attack...
So until I get the source it's gotta stay 4 frames.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2008, 12:08:10 am by Souly »

Offline robotacon

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Re: 2D Fighter RPG (walk cycle WIP)

Reply #7 on: June 08, 2008, 08:40:41 am
I dig the design. It's different. He looks like a rubber-man without shoulders but it's all design so it works.
A few pointers.

The walk:
Don't move the head from side to side in the walk. No one really does head rotations.
Try and not have the hands overlap at the same place in front of the body. It looks better what you've done where the hands go behind the body.
Don't twist the pelvis.Your feet would have to point straight to the sides for you to twist like that.

The punch:
 Work on a real fighting stance. Pull up the guard. Currently he punches like a dork.
 Real fighters try to hide their punch, not expose it. It could look good with aniticipation but you've only got 4 frames so I'd skip it.
 Can't you make 2 four-frame punches that you alternate between left-left-left-right and so on. That would look awesome.
 Don't have the back foot slide. That foot should be stready supporting the punch but you could move the front foot for reach if you want but again with just 4 frames I would keep it simple and have both feet firmly on the ground.

Offline Souly

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Re: 2D Fighter RPG (walk cycle WIP)

Reply #8 on: June 10, 2008, 06:31:51 am
Okay, I'm ditching the current sprites I have at the moment.
The anatomy is horrible, and the sprite is some sort of midget.
I remember seeing that fighter tutorial at sprite art, I also remember Helm mentioning the average person is 5 heads tall. (I could be wrong)


Anyways, I've decided to work on the weapon stances for the new character design.
I need to work on my anatomy...
As well as eventually create both male and female versions of these. D:

From left to right;
Fists(claws), Two-handed sword, One-handed and secondary(sheild,grapple), Staff, Dualies, Crossbow, Magic Book, Spear
« Last Edit: June 10, 2008, 06:44:37 am by Souly »

Offline Sherman Gill

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Re: 2D Fighter RPG (New wirework)

Reply #9 on: June 10, 2008, 07:30:12 am
I remember seeing that fighter tutorial at sprite art, I also remember Helm mentioning the average person is 5 heads tall. (I could be wrong)
6-7, with 8 being the 'ideal'.
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Offline Souly

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Re: 2D Fighter RPG (New wirework)

Reply #10 on: June 10, 2008, 08:54:10 am
Ah see, I knew I had it wrong.

Besides the head scale, how's the anatomy on this?
I know it's just a stickman and all, but are the limbs too short at all?
« Last Edit: June 10, 2008, 09:59:11 am by Souly »

Offline Souly

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Re: 2D Fighter RPG (New frame)

Reply #11 on: June 10, 2008, 06:37:52 pm

Melee stance got worked on over the morning.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2008, 08:20:30 pm by Souly »

Offline AlexHW

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Re: 2D Fighter RPG (New frame)

Reply #12 on: June 10, 2008, 08:58:30 pm
lookin pretty good so far, what will be your next step once you are settled with this stage?
just asking because a fuller form (such as the head) would help you animate/pixel it better than simply a stick figure.
you may want to try filling out the shapes while you are visualizing the movement so you can get a better feel for how things will look.

Offline Souly

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Re: 2D Fighter RPG (New frame)

Reply #13 on: June 10, 2008, 11:39:34 pm
I'm going to try and make all the idle animation wire frames for every weapon style.
Hopefully I can cheat a bit and using the same legs with some changed made depending on weight.
Next will be one handed sword and secondary weapons.
Secondary weapons being, sheilds, grapple guns... ect.
After that I will try and work on the over all style of the base, and continue with wire frames for the first attack for each weapon.

Offline Souly

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Re: 2D Fighter RPG (New frame)

Reply #14 on: June 11, 2008, 02:01:56 pm

Sorry for the double post, but update on the two handed sword idle.

Edit: Reversed the frames look better?
« Last Edit: June 13, 2008, 01:40:08 am by Souly »

Offline Helm

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Re: 2D Fighter RPG (New frame)

Reply #15 on: June 11, 2008, 03:33:50 pm
Do you think a fighter would move their knee up and down like that while keeping their pelvis straight? Stand up and try it, perhaps. What purpose does it serve a fighter to be this 'animated'? I'd stand still, personally. It's one thing to follow video game tradition and another to do it over reason. A sword fighter would stand still and try to control their breeding while waiting for an opening to attack. Swordmen are not boxers.

Offline AdamAtomic

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Re: 2D Fighter RPG (New frame)

Reply #16 on: June 11, 2008, 03:55:43 pm
Even if its done just for the sake of style and tradition, I think having the sword stay at such a perfect angle is very out of sync with how stylish the rest of the body's movement is.  If he's gonna be bouncing around, I think he'd be waving the sword around a bit too!

Offline Souly

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Re: 2D Fighter RPG (New frame)

Reply #17 on: June 11, 2008, 04:16:52 pm

Does this clear up anything?
I'll see what I can do to make it less dramatic.



One handed sword
« Last Edit: June 11, 2008, 09:18:35 pm by Souly »

Offline Helm

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Re: 2D Fighter RPG (New frame)

Reply #18 on: June 11, 2008, 11:33:44 pm
control their breeding

haha learn to type Helm. Breathing. Breathing, not breeding.

Offline ndchristie

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Re: 2D Fighter RPG (Twohandsword idle anim)

Reply #19 on: June 12, 2008, 02:41:45 am
well since you've asked about anatomy, i think i should recommend a few subtle changes to the wireframe.  the one you're using right now is very simple, which works for setting up basic anims, but i'm afraid that it's leading to some pretty "gumby" type characters (at first i thought this was a style thing, then i noticed the anatomy references you made)


i added in shapes for the ribcage and pelvis that are still easy to manipulate, but will give a better sense of what can twist and what cant (basically, only the little section in between them is capable of real turning, and then the skin gets pulled over the frame).

I added squares for major joints, which remind to give them form as well as space.  your initial sketch is cluttering the joints in some places and forgetting them in others.  this is extremely important where the arms join the collar, where it's important to treat them as semi-autonomous (aka they can actually move a bit independently of the shoulder axis and have their own form).  I've also pulled the neck just slightly away from the shoulders to help show this.

the yellow shapes just show easy point references that i like, gleaned from a renaissance stone-carver's template.  the star points to the adam's apple top, the ends of the collar bone, the edge of the ribcage, and navel (bottom) duh, not navel, solar plexis.  see what i mean, not what i say.  the navel would make this star like five feet across :P  i find that the star is best for adult men, as it's a little wide for youths and women.  I think i may just like drawing stars.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2008, 03:58:56 am by ndchristie »
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Offline Souly

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Re: 2D Fighter RPG (Twohandsword idle anim)

Reply #20 on: June 12, 2008, 06:57:18 am
Tried taking what you showed me and applying it to the melee idle.
Not sure if I made it better or worse.
Tried fixing some of the joint problems and limb stretching...
« Last Edit: June 12, 2008, 07:07:45 am by Souly »

Offline PypeBros

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Re: 2D Fighter RPG (Twohandsword idle anim)

Reply #21 on: June 12, 2008, 08:19:38 am
Tried fixing some of the joint problems and limb stretching...

By the way, is limb stretching always bad ? I mean we are seeing a 2D picture of a 3D guy, so "stretching" may simply be due to the elbow moving along the Z axis.

Maybe the best way to figure out is to stick red dots on your own joints, place yourself in front of a camera and do an idle stance, just like rotoscoping used to do (given modern digital cameras, it should be quite easier ;)

NB: while typing this, my browser got buggy and start skipping some frames of the animated gifs below, which surprisingly made the character more "real" (despite a more jumpy animation) as he wasn't repeating the same movement again and again. It might worth investigating further :P

Offline Feron

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Re: 2D Fighter RPG (Twohandsword idle anim)

Reply #22 on: June 12, 2008, 10:13:12 am
one problem i see is that his torso and shoulders are facing us (the viewer) with his head turned to the side 90º.  If i was fighting someone i would have my body turned almost directly to them...

Offline Helm

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Re: 2D Fighter RPG (Twohandsword idle anim)

Reply #23 on: June 12, 2008, 10:37:46 am
Actually no, in most martial stances your guard stance has as little of your vital line (from head to the groin) exposed to the enemy as possible, I am fairly certain. One puts the arms  (or weapons) in front of that line to shield it. If you look at a boxers stance, you'll see it's slightly turned as well. Not a full 90 degrees of course, but closer to that than to head-on.

Offline Souly

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Re: 2D Fighter RPG (Twohandsword idle anim)

Reply #24 on: June 12, 2008, 06:55:00 pm
one problem i see is that his torso and shoulders are facing us (the viewer) with his head turned to the side 90º.  If i was fighting someone i would have my body turned almost directly to them...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=BEFyswBe4x0
This is why you want to turn your body...

Tried working a bit on the arms, noticed the lost smoothness in the new version.

Offline ndchristie

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Re: 2D Fighter RPG (Twohandsword idle anim)

Reply #25 on: June 12, 2008, 07:39:24 pm
Tried taking what you showed me and applying it to the melee idle.
Not sure if I made it better or worse.
this will have very little effect on the quality of the wireframe, you'll find the benefit of it when you go to draw over it.

also, such a simple stance isn't going to make too too much use of the parts, but when you get into attacks or walking/running, it becomes important.  Those simple lines you had don't provide enough movement and you start relying on squashing straight lines rather than moving maniples.
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Offline Helm

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Re: 2D Fighter RPG (Twohandsword idle anim)

Reply #26 on: June 12, 2008, 07:48:31 pm
the point of the red nodes is that you can use them first to show smooth movement that the eye can follow. Can you follow trajectories that make sense here?

Offline Souly

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Re: 2D Fighter RPG (Twohandsword idle anim)

Reply #27 on: June 13, 2008, 01:09:55 am

Added two more frames.

Offline sharprm

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Re: 2D Fighter RPG (Twohandsword idle anim)

Reply #28 on: June 13, 2008, 04:17:57 am
MAybe the red dots should follow elliptical paths or curved paths, see Fool's post:

http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?PHPSESSID=edc8818933d13af34065c9b698de3253&topic=6299.msg74399#msg74399
Modern artists are told that they must create something totally original-or risk being called "derivative".They've been indoctrinated with the concept that bad=good.The effect is always the same: Meaningless primitivism
http://www.artrenewal.org/articles/Philosophy/phi

Offline Souly

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Re: 2D Fighter RPG (Twohandsword idle anim)

Reply #29 on: June 13, 2008, 08:37:30 pm
« Last Edit: June 13, 2008, 08:51:17 pm by Souly »