AuthorTopic: 3 Hit combo Animation (WIP)  (Read 7383 times)

Offline Mike

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3 Hit combo Animation (WIP)

on: June 04, 2008, 12:30:04 pm
I originally had this posted in Pixel Joint forum however I did want it over at pixelation but unfortunately it has been down(I think)
Here is the original thread just in case you want to see.
http://www.pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6587&PID=95902#95902

These next drawings are my attempt at building up a combo for a character that I'll be using in a game.  C+C please

Most up to date versions below vvvv comments and critique please

Combo 1(this is someone elses edit but I liked it best so I went with it.)


Combo 1+2 vers. 1


Combo 1+2 vers. 2

Older versions below vvv



1st vers.


2nd vers.

I came up with the version below because I realized I had to break up the animations if I want it to work as a combo in an actual game.


Combo 1(after a few edits)

« Last Edit: June 04, 2008, 01:16:34 pm by Mike »

Offline ndchristie

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Re: 3 Hit combo Animation (WIP)

Reply #1 on: June 04, 2008, 03:38:36 pm
this is sloppy (especially at the end when he doesn't have enough frames to land so i completely half-assed the final one), and you probably don't have this much freedom, but why not add some more movement?


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Offline Ben2theEdge

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Re: 3 Hit combo Animation (WIP)

Reply #2 on: June 04, 2008, 06:49:02 pm
ND, I would say for a game project it would be unwise to make a character move around that much just for a simple combo; I tried it once to a much lesser desgree than what you have there, and I ended up with massive design issues  :blind:

I would say what's really important is to keep in mind the range of the attack. You don't want to force the player to be right on top of the enemy in order to do any damage but you don't want him to have such long range that the game is a cakewalk, either.
I mild from suffer dislexia.

Offline Mike

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Re: 3 Hit combo Animation (WIP)

Reply #3 on: June 04, 2008, 09:02:14 pm
ND, I would say for a game project it would be unwise to make a character move around that much just for a simple combo; I tried it once to a much lesser desgree than what you have there, and I ended up with massive design issues  :blind:

I would say what's really important is to keep in mind the range of the attack. You don't want to force the player to be right on top of the enemy in order to do any damage but you don't want him to have such long range that the game is a cakewalk, either.

Yes exactly what I have been trying to maintain.  I could make a super duper crazy animation with movement up the wazoo but it wouldn't work well with the game. Unless I made the hit box follow the animation, or had a return animation but I don't want that design wise. 

**Update**  I modified a few things, sped up a few frames...  Also I feel like it might be moving horizontal too much.

« Last Edit: June 04, 2008, 09:25:54 pm by Mike »

Offline ndchristie

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Re: 3 Hit combo Animation (WIP)

Reply #4 on: June 04, 2008, 09:43:57 pm
ND, I would say for a game project it would be unwise to make a character move around that much just for a simple combo; I tried it once to a much lesser desgree than what you have there, and I ended up with massive design issues  :blind:

I would say what's really important is to keep in mind the range of the attack. You don't want to force the player to be right on top of the enemy in order to do any damage but you don't want him to have such long range that the game is a cakewalk, either.

I agree 100% that it would take more effort to design, but that's why 99% of bad games use a character that doesn't move.  It's boring. Even mario has a "ranged attack."
Also, my edit shows a lot of motion (over the top to make a point about how static the sample is), and for some reason when i heard "combo" i thought "special move" (not regular attacks), so yeah, then it's quite overdone.

however, i do not agree that range makes games a cakewalk.  in a still game, you can just stand still waving your hands - motion makes you commit to the attack - there are decisions and consequences.  the sample also has maybe 5 frames of falling at the end when the character is vulnerable - not repelling enemies.  this adds layers to gameplay that make up the coding difference.  you also need to think about where you land - Captain Falcon in smash bros is NOT a newb character.  when all else fails, you can always balance by adding health to enemies and taking it from the player (which makes motion imperative).

if you've played them, compare fighting in Dark Cloud 1 to Dark Cloud 2 - the only major difference is the addition of the lunge and the backflip, but i think everyone would agree that the combat is more lively and engaging and not at all easier.



all that is academic though if you've chosen to keep a rigid box.  i will keep the point though that the animation right now is really boring.  my guy happens to advance, but all the kicking and turning can still be done without moving him forward much.  I only broke his spine - but you can look at elbow and knee joints too - anything to add interest.  if the player is bored with your silhouette he'll probably be bored by your final sprite.

at the very least, you need to do something about the hands.  right now he attacks twice from right to left, which is just a big no-no.  fighting always moves from the same location.  if you attack to the right, you continue from the right.  same goes for left or center.  when you don't you end up with mister doesn't-turn-his-shoulders-ever, and this is awkward and makes for weak-looking attacks.  try this move of yours in person, swing your left arm across while keeping your right back, pause, and attack with your right.  sooooooo awkward.  next, try attacking with your left counter-clockwise and bringing the right hand with it passively, then striking back clockwise with the right (or, like my kung fu guy, do a 360 and continue the counter-clockwise motion).  either of the second options will feel much better.
A mistake is a mistake.
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Offline Mike

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Re: 3 Hit combo Animation (WIP)

Reply #5 on: June 04, 2008, 10:36:37 pm
at the very least, you need to do something about the hands.  right now he attacks twice from right to left, which is just a big no-no.  fighting always moves from the same location.  if you attack to the right, you continue from the right.  same goes for left or center.  when you don't you end up with mister doesn't-turn-his-shoulders-ever, and this is awkward and makes for weak-looking attacks.  try this move of yours in person, swing your left arm across while keeping your right back, pause, and attack with your right.  sooooooo awkward.  next, try attacking with your left counter-clockwise and bringing the right hand with it passively, then striking back clockwise with the right (or, like my kung fu guy, do a 360 and continue the counter-clockwise motion).  either of the second options will feel much better.

You seem to assume that I didn't spend hours trying out these moves myself constantly checking back and forth what works and what doesn't.  Plus I don't think any of the moves I did so far would result in him spinning around and attacking with the opposite arm.  I don't want to sound harsh but man it seems like you are attacking me personally.  What the hell?  Why don't you wait until I'm actually done and you will see that it becomes far more interesting.

Honestly I am all for critique and I'll even go as far as to completely scraping something and trying again but man you are far too harsh with your statements. 


ps. I thought his silhouette was pretty nice compared to some things I have seen but nope I must be wrong, guess I have to go completely above and beyond, and further to please some people.  (well f*** it, you can just be one of those guys that hates it, I don't care, I'm not Nintendo and I don't care about pleasing everyone)

Actually edit**

I have some homework to finish and when I'm done perhaps you and I can make some compromises on the silhouette and movement and see if we can come up with something more interesting but not with so much forward movement.

« Last Edit: June 04, 2008, 10:48:08 pm by Mike »

Offline ndchristie

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Re: 3 Hit combo Animation (WIP)

Reply #6 on: June 04, 2008, 11:50:09 pm
You seem to assume that I didn't spend hours trying out these moves myself constantly checking back and forth what works and what doesn't.
you and i must have different bones if you can pull of the last pose of #1 comfortably enough to say "yes, i can fight like this" :P

it seems like you are attacking me personally.  What the hell?
you're mistaken, but i'm glad that you value your work highly enough to consider this personal.


Why don't you wait until I'm actually done and you will see that it becomes far more interesting.
Quote from: adarias
if the player is bored with your silhouette he'll probably be bored by your final sprite.


ps. I thought his silhouette was pretty nice compared to some things I have seen but nope I must be wrong, guess I have to go completely above and beyond, and further to please some people.  (well f*** it, you can just be one of those guys that hates it, I don't care, I'm not Nintendo and I don't care about pleasing everyone)
you have come to a critique board, the Mona Lisa would get crits here (i think it actually has, somewhere in OT).


you are far too harsh with your statements.
I didn't feel so at the time, but they were never meant to cause offense.  I have found that comments like "it could be more interesting" are tedious get brushed aside while "it's boring" tend to prompt more action, but forgive me for perhaps going beyond pragmatism into bluntness.


I have some homework to finish and when I'm done perhaps you and I can make some compromises.
Critique is not diplomacy, you have my advice and that's all that I can give or demand.  Whatever you make of this will be the better by your hands alone.
A mistake is a mistake.
The same mistake twice is a bad habit.
The same mistake three or more times is a motif.

Offline Mike

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Re: 3 Hit combo Animation (WIP)

Reply #7 on: June 05, 2008, 02:29:52 am
Yeah ok sure I can fly around and spin in mid air in my small room, and then by some miracle remember what I did and than draw it out and animate it.  Yeah ok...  Excuse me if my poses lack interests, I'm not some martial arts master.  I drew what I could remember and could do in real life.  And I still don't think you are understanding that I have to consider more things than just animation.  Such as range, quickness of attack, and whether or not it makes the whole game super easy.  And imagine if I made the forward movement faster than his actual run.(Which is how your animation is)  How stupid would that be?  Players using that combo to get through the level quicker instead of running.  Not even Devil May Cry(short of the lunging stab) has stupid forward movement of that degree in its animations.

Although I value what you say it doesn't make you any less of a dick.  So whatever...

Offline digitaldust

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Re: 3 Hit combo Animation (WIP)

Reply #8 on: June 05, 2008, 04:34:03 am
My only question for Mike is this... How 'pro' is this character when it comes to his/her knowledge in this particular art of cutting? Although i think ndchristie's edit looks more like a command-input special, it's also come to my attention that your current version of this combo has some unnecessary movement (namely what seems to be the lack of mobility on the blue elbow), making it look like the character is in an amateur-intermediate level.

Also, i personally think the dude's moving diagonally instead. :/
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Offline Mike

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Re: 3 Hit combo Animation (WIP)

Reply #9 on: June 05, 2008, 04:53:25 am
My only question for Mike is this... How 'pro' is this character when it comes to his/her knowledge in this particular art of cutting? Although i think ndchristie's edit looks more like a command-input special, it's also come to my attention that your current version of this combo has some unnecessary movement (namely what seems to be the lack of mobility on the blue elbow), making it look like the character is in an amateur-intermediate level.

Also, i personally think the dude's moving diagonally instead. :/

Can you possibly show an image of what you mean?  I understand lack of movement but in what way?  And I guess the character is about as good as I am in this category, which equals not very good.