AuthorTopic: [WIP] Fighter sprite  (Read 6084 times)

Offline bedelf

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[WIP] Fighter sprite

on: May 03, 2008, 05:28:49 am
Ok, I have 2 fighter sprites here, both are based on axel from SOR2 which I've used as a reference, mostly on the shading/detail end of things. The second one I feel deviated right from the start, but the dead giveaway is the shoes. ;) In my head, the second one is just me hitting the streets.

I haven't done much pixel work before this, mabey 2-3 very small pieces over the years, like my EGA adventure game avatar. I've watched some tutorial spriting and read the various posts about color, etc. but I'm finding applying it to my own stuff extremely difficult. I can't draw at all and only have a basic understanding of anatomy, so I find blotting/outlining the initial character before coloring the hardest/most time consuming part, and alot of trial and error. Just keep that in mind when looking at these -- I need lots of practice. So yes, I'm biting off mabey more than I can chew here, but I dont really have a choice if I want to finish my project.

I started on a opengl 2d lib last Nov, which took roughly 4 months to get all of the gfx/sound/ui stuff worked out, and then I decided to work on a little oldschool nintendo style beatemup game. Which at the time the logic was - simple machanics, low art reqs, and I could just finish it. I was going for something like double dragon 2 for graphics and streets of rage 2 for gameplay. Here was my mistake though, which I'll get into later.





First up, the sprite I abandoned. The goal here was to make a 40 pixel tall guy based on axel for a couple reasons, 1) as an art test to see how things would look in game. 2) to learn something about pixeling, and 3) to see if I could even hack it by myself.

The height is the same as the guys from DD2, however, once I put it in game I realized the reason those sprites worked is they were very "fat" looking, and my guy looked REALLY small on screen. This is where I wondered if I should even bother continuing to do this myself and tried to rationalize handing over one of my paychecks to someone like Helm. :P You can see my terrible progression here -- this actually took like a week for me, looking at the time stamps -- mostly because I would get frustrated and have to walk away from it.

Postmortem: 6 days total from start to finish.

It took like 3 days to even get this going. There was a point at where I gave up trying to make the shoes on my own and I looked at the shoes axel had in sor2 and realized the only reason they looked like shoes to me was the stripe on his sneakers. I had a really hard time visualizing what I was trying to pixel staring at a white canvas. So after that sometimes I would just put some little detail in like that and work from there instead of trying to do that last. Also, the head wasn't as hard as I thought it would be, even though it sucks, I was pretty happy with it at the time. Color wise this is a total mess, I was still picking colors using the wheel or adjusting RGB values instead of using the HSB sliders. Overall I would say it's a god damned tragedy, but I liked the legs/stance I ended up with, and I probably spent the most time on that part.






*sing it
Anything that we want to go from just a beginner to a pro,
You need a montage (montage)
Ohhhhh it takes a montage (montage)







aaandd here we are. I decided to make him a compromise between DD2 and SOR2 in size, 60ish tall. Axel from SOR2 was roughly 80. This time the initial blot/outline didn't take nearly as long, only a couple of hours, it was basically the same as the other one just a bit bigger so it wasn't as hard to wrap my head around. There are alot of details taken from the SOR2 axel, like the shoe stripe, the seam/pocket on the pants, etc. It's there if you look. The face, which I thought we be super hard, wasn't too bad, though a bit too anime for me, that's really all I could come up with that didn't look terrible.

Postmortem: 7 days from start to finish.

BLOT/LINEART: Not terrible, I actually managed to blot the shape in a couple hours at my friends house. I reused my feet/legs from the first guy in terms of positioning. It's pretty much how I stand in front of the mirror conincidentally. :) His right foot still feels very weak to me, but I'm not sure how to fix it.

COLORS: I tried to be better on the color picking this time around but I think it needs alot of work. If you look at the difference between frame 3rd and 4th row you'll notice his skin tones change alot. This is where I absolutely gave up trying to pick them myself and found some website that had like 20 skin tones in a graph and I used that heavily to get the 4 colors I ended up with. :( It was driving me crazy for hours. I'm getting better at it, trying to pay attention to the values and how I can make better choices, but oy vei, I have a long way to go here.

SHADING: A mess. You know, I've seen tons of this stuff, watched tutorials, etc, but I draw a blank looking at my own stuff. The pants are very close to sor2 axel in terms of shading because I ended up working off of the details I added based on that sprite, like the pant seam. I honestly don't know if I should have went in that direction but I couldn't think of another way without pillow shading him. :P I don't really have a true lightsource, I mean, it's sorta from above/back a little, but I found myself just using the colors to show definition instead, like, showing you where his knee is, or where his leg bends. I dunno, I was totally lost on this. I just put some details in that worked and moped around those until it looked like something. I was hoping to get a bit of help with this I guess, but damnit if it doesn't feel like I've commited myself to this look now.

ANATOMY: oy vei. I spent a couple days working on his arms and I still think they are terrible, and I still don't know how to fix them. It looks "okay" to me right now. I wish his right arm was held higher, I know I don't hold a high guard with one arm and not the other, but I didnt want to cover his neck with his hand. This also made me feel like the skin colors I had picked were inadequate. His shirt changed from gray to white because of the arms as well. Damn you axel. Overall he looks "okay" to me, but not great. Mabey his arms are too short? Waist too long? The hands probably could be better but I'm not sure how.

CLOSING: The whole time I was working on this guy I felt like I was going to get away from axel more and more, but looking at him now, yeah. Haha. I think I just identify with this look, as this is how I see myself in a game. So I would REALLY like to get some feedback and be able to clean this guy up and call him "finished". I would love to start on some animations. Also, if your saying to yourself, bah, he did nothing new - realize that this is not about creating a 100% origional sprite, so much as learning to pixel without being overwhelmed and having something to throw into a game at the end of the day.







Here's what he looks like in my game even though the pitch-black background kinda swallows him a bit. Also, don't be afraid to get mean, tear that crap apart.  :ouch:



« Last Edit: May 03, 2008, 05:31:22 am by bedelf »
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Offline sharprm

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Re: [WIP] Fighter sprite

Reply #1 on: May 03, 2008, 11:53:35 am
Whoa, is that your memoirs? I appreciate you showing effort but you can't expect me to read that. Here is an edit.



Good luck on your project!
Modern artists are told that they must create something totally original-or risk being called "derivative".They've been indoctrinated with the concept that bad=good.The effect is always the same: Meaningless primitivism
http://www.artrenewal.org/articles/Philosophy/phi

Offline bedelf

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Re: [WIP] Fighter sprite

Reply #2 on: May 03, 2008, 02:50:40 pm
Whoa, is that your memoirs? I appreciate you showing effort but you can't expect me to read that. Here is an edit.

Haha. I actually expect people to do what I do, look at the pretty pictures and skim.  ;)

This edit is helping me alot. Thanks so much. I can point out a bunch of things I like better without even trying -- the right foot, left hand, and hair highlight read alot better than mine, wasting colors on the belt, etc. I'm gonna be running around like crazy the next few days, but I'm gonna digest whatever is posted here this weekend and try to get a new version up sometime early during the week.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2008, 02:53:12 pm by bedelf »
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Offline Helm

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Re: [WIP] Fighter sprite

Reply #3 on: May 04, 2008, 02:32:20 am


Building on that edit:




yours, sharprm's, mine.

These are somethings to consider:

*At such sizes, a single pixel is a lot of real estate. It turns out visual clarity for me is more important than signifying detail such as a zipper or seams to the jeans when a pixel is about 10 CM in that ratio. A jeans seam in real life is milimeters big, but now it's as big as his eye, so to speak. Simplyfy, make the volumes read more and don't worry so much about detail. The mind will invent details when it looks at something that seems correctly set up.

*You must really think about optimising palettes, about making the jumps from one area of color to the next work as best they can. There's no fast and easy way to do this, just research and try things.

*Look at small cube A that is outlined according to lightsource (a top lightsource in this case) and consider the possible benefits of such a procedure instead of jaggy outlines or even worse, selouted outlines.

*I restructured the face, again, there's no fast and easy way to explain why here, it's a matter of familiarization with the human face and then the ways to stylise it.

Also, another two things: Your thought process above shows you have a capable, critical mind which will help you reach where you want to go, if you work hard and respect the critical process. Second:
Quote
This is where I wondered if I should even bother continuing to do this myself and tried to rationalize handing over one of my paychecks to someone like Helm.

Don't separate yourself from your dreams
Do what you must to survive
Don't give up and don't give in
You must keep your dream alive
Do what you must to survive
« Last Edit: May 04, 2008, 02:37:45 am by Helm »

Offline bedelf

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Re: [WIP] Fighter sprite

Reply #4 on: May 05, 2008, 05:45:05 am
Boy, this guy is looking pretty fantastic these days. Right now I'm still just analysing your version, but I think your post says it all. Thanks for taking the time.  ;D


*At such sizes, a single pixel is a lot of real estate. It turns out visual clarity for me is more important than signifying detail such as a zipper or seams to the jeans when a pixel is about 10 CM in that ratio. A jeans seam in real life is milimeters big, but now it's as big as his eye, so to speak. Simplyfy, make the volumes read more and don't worry so much about detail. The mind will invent details when it looks at something that seems correctly set up.

10-4.

Quote
*You must really think about optimising palettes, about making the jumps from one area of color to the next work as best they can. There's no fast and easy way to do this, just research and try things.

*Look at small cube A that is outlined according to lightsource (a top lightsource in this case) and consider the possible benefits of such a procedure instead of jaggy outlines or even worse, selouted outlines.

I'm still digesting what you've done with the palette here. It seems crazy and dramatic up close, but so simple when I back out. Your transitions are smoother, less jarring, and use less colors. This is not really something I had even touched on in my version regrettibly, something I need to spend some serious time on for sure.

Quote
*I restructured the face, again, there's no fast and easy way to explain why here, it's a matter of familiarization with the human face and then the ways to stylise it.

Damned artists doing artisty things.  ::)

Quote
Don't separate yourself from your dreams
Do what you must to survive
Don't give up and don't give in
You must keep your dream alive
Do what you must to survive

It's a funny thing in life to try to stay motivated to work on something you know is going to take another couple of years to finish, and is basically something no one understands -- when you talk about it to the people around you, they say - "that's nice", in that, only half paying attention, I'm waiting for you to finish talking so I can change the subject sort of way.  :ouch:

I noticed you saved your edit as "streetsofwrath" - is that from anything? If not, that doesn't sound half bad -- a decent tribute name. Right now I'm just calling the project generically, "Fighter", to be renamed later when it starts looking more like a game and less like a technology demo.
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Offline Helm

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Re: [WIP] Fighter sprite

Reply #5 on: May 05, 2008, 06:25:30 am
Just a pun on streets of rage. Perhaps Alleys of Wrath? Anyway, feel free to use it. But I do suggest you don't, I think you can pull off something more individual than a straight-ahead gameplay homage to an older game. Your dude looks like axel, given, but you don't have to buy the farm.

Quote
I'm still digesting what you've done with the palette here. It seems crazy and dramatic up close, but so simple when I back out. Your transitions are smoother, less jarring, and use less colors. This is not really something I had even touched on in my version regrettibly, something I need to spend some serious time on for sure.

As a general note, when you have a few colors and you turn the saturation down on them a lot and the lightness value is closeby, you can put strange combinations of colors together and it won't look jarring. This is why I am able to put shirt colors on the pants, and pant colors in the outline yet every element retains its visual identity as what it is. It took me a few years to not just make everything look muddy and nothing, though. Color conservation and keeping a close palette is an ongoing process that you will have to deal with all your life as a pixel artist, there are no fast and easy always-dependable tricks. You see I didn't turn down the saturation on the gloves nor the hair since I decided I don't need to reuse any of those and their color identity was useful for a video game sprite. But the jeans/shirt? Hell they can be almost the same ramp, they are separated by VALUE rather than HUE.

Quote
It's a funny thing in life to try to stay motivated to work on something you know is going to take another couple of years to finish, and is basically something no one understands -- when you talk about it to the people around you, they say - "that's nice", in that, only half paying attention, I'm waiting for you to finish talking so I can change the subject sort of way.

People will always care and get excited about videogame projects on the internet. Here, on tigsource, so on. This is where you should turn for motivational boosts, not your cousin.

Offline bedelf

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Re: [WIP] Fighter sprite

Reply #6 on: May 05, 2008, 04:21:16 pm
edit: After recieving a PM -- I should probably clarify this post a bit. I think I need to start from scratch and come back to finish this guy later. You guys did so much with it that I hadn't touched on that I feel like unless I start over and have to go through the process of shading from nothing but black/white, building the palette on my own, etc. I fear I'll end up just copying what I'm looking at without understanding the why's.

If that's bad form I could work up my own edit first instead though. Hes the main character in my game so I'm not abandoning it by any means. I'm unfortunately thinking terribly long-term at the moment, which might be a bit selfish.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2008, 12:25:45 am by bedelf »
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Offline Helm

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Re: [WIP] Fighter sprite

Reply #7 on: May 06, 2008, 07:32:21 am
No, actually starting from the top is probably best. Pixelation doesn't dictate how you use what you learn here, besides frowning on straight appropriation of edits, and you're proposing the exact opposite. No worries, go put skill points in Design (Character) and Craft (Pixel Art).