AuthorTopic: my little world, monsters! ... [please C&C]  (Read 85522 times)

Offline zeid

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Re: my little world, monsters! ... [please C&C]

Reply #150 on: March 08, 2009, 05:10:09 pm
really sketchy but:

Consider using some animation techniques for creating a sense of termoil and speed in the characters movement seeing as they are under a grave deal of strain.  Whilst you are giving it bat wings make note that insects tend to have a greater body to wing ratio then these larger animals and so may also serve as good references.  This edit is just meant for ideas, I would also reconsider the face as from what you said he should be under strain not angry.
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Offline PypeBros

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Re: my little world, monsters! ... [please C&C]

Reply #151 on: March 08, 2009, 09:34:18 pm
thanks for your tips. I have emergencies right now, but i'll let you see what it became by mid-week, hopefully.

Offline thedaemon

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Re: my little world, monsters! ... [please C&C]

Reply #152 on: March 08, 2009, 11:44:08 pm
I made a little picture to explain the wings visually.  Really I would use 7 frames of animation if you want it real clear. But whichever you feel like doing. I hope this helps. Remember to keep the wings mostly up at the top of arc and down at the bottom of arc. You don't want to draw a wing in the middle. It will be bad spacing for a flap. :)

Offline PypeBros

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Re: my little world, monsters! ... [please C&C]

Reply #153 on: March 10, 2009, 08:41:08 pm
thanks willow and thedaemon for your patient explanations. And thanks zeid for your sketch.

I'll have to dig for more videos of flying bat, but i have to disagree with your proposal of "full force down" reverse-flapped wings. I agree that a sheet of paper would do that but unlike a wing, a sheet of paper don't make me fly. Afaik, what makes something fly is either
- speed (like with a plane) and difference of pressure between the two sides of a wing
- wing movement "catching" the air within the wing and "pushing the air down" to lift up.

If you get a look at this video of goose taking off, you'll notice that only the very end of the wings (that is just a feather's length where feathers are separated for direction control, not for lifting up) bends like a sheet of paper. The rest of the wing follows the angle of the bone, and much like i cannot scratch my back with my hand because of how my elbow is made, a goose cannot really appear as the frame #2 of thedaemon's picture.

Depending on which video i watch, it seems that bats do even smaller (but much faster) flaps than those goose, but they still won't show as on frame #2, which i see completely "non-batty".

Offline thedaemon

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Re: my little world, monsters! ... [please C&C]

Reply #154 on: March 10, 2009, 10:26:27 pm
But you are doing an animation of a cartoon bat with limited frames. You want the clearest read. You want the viewer to know that he is flying. In animation terms this is called "breaking the joints". Check out Richard Williams book for more information on this technique. But again, it's all up to you. I'm just suggesting a clear read of the flapping. It may not be accurate, but neither is your drawing of a bat. Since you have a cartoony style I assumed you wanted a cartoony feel to animation and didn't want to animate 12 frames of animation for a smooth realistic bat wing flap.  Here is a post about breaking joints that should clear some things up.(with pages from Richard Williams' book.)http://www.michaelspornanimation.com/splog/?p=1331

Offline Willows

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Re: my little world, monsters! ... [please C&C]

Reply #155 on: March 11, 2009, 04:05:36 am
I'll have to dig for more videos of flying bat, but i have to disagree with your proposal of "full force down" reverse-flapped wings. I agree that a sheet of paper would do that but unlike a wing, a sheet of paper don't make me fly.

A paper reacts the same as feathers or a leathery bat wing would, just to a different degree because of the difference in rigidity. I also do not believe a bat's wing would bend as far as a piece of paper, because I know the bat's wings are reinforced by bone, which doesn't bend like paper ;)

Even though it won't bend like paper, that doesn't mean it doesn't bend at all.



Hah, created a whole lot of new problems in that hasty edit, but I believe it looks like it's flying now, if not a bit erratically.

Offline PypeBros

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Re: my little world, monsters! ... [please C&C]

Reply #156 on: March 25, 2009, 11:14:27 am
A few more attempts. I can't find the proper way to do it, obviously.

-- --

Offline xhunterko

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Re: my little world, monsters! ... [please C&C]

Reply #157 on: March 26, 2009, 12:32:06 am
Okay, here we go.



I tried to get the curved wing thing going on here. I think this is more or less what they're talking about here. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I don't think the perspective's right but I think you'll get the general idea though. This is only half the animation though. The other is making the wings go down. It should just be a simple copy and flip job though. What I basically did was animate the line and change it to a curve. This page might serve as a good reference.

http://tkool.jp/fancontents/lecture/graphic/dot/2nen/2_05.html

Yeah, it's in Japanese. But the main point should just be understood by looking at the pictures.

Sorry if its a bit fast. Darn GIMP and Firefox.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2009, 12:34:04 am by xhunterko »

Offline thedaemon

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Re: my little world, monsters! ... [please C&C]

Reply #158 on: March 26, 2009, 01:06:09 am
Ok, a quick edit to show you what I meant. Also slowed it down a bit.

Offline PypeBros

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Re: my little world, monsters! ... [please C&C]

Reply #159 on: March 26, 2009, 10:34:56 am
@daemon : thanks for the edit and the link. I have obviously did it the wrong way.
<-- earlier animation step-by-step

Esp, i have "broadened" the wings on frame too (in a motion blur attempt), but it doesn't work well at all with wings as it works with feets :/
I also have the feeling that i snapshot'd the wrong picture on frame #3. Probably by this time, the wings should start folding again, and no longer be "broken" by the effort.

I note, however, that the technique mentionned on michael's splog is merely a way to "flatten" what happens in reality. If i throw a ball, i'll indeed have my elbow moving first and then my forearm gaining speed by un-bending and finally give it the maximum speed with a wirst twist. No joint break, but i'm moving my arm in 3D using other rotation axes than i used to "charge" my throw.