AuthorTopic: Beauty [upDated]  (Read 19478 times)

Offline Skipper

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Beauty [upDated]

on: December 02, 2005, 11:23:48 pm
I hate the thought that some of you will now have some insight into my personal life.


Second Draft:
« Last Edit: December 10, 2005, 04:25:00 am by Skipper »

Offline pixelblink

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Re: Beauty

Reply #1 on: December 03, 2005, 02:17:42 am
looks terrific so far! Keep going :)

Offline Skipper

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Re: Beauty

Reply #2 on: December 03, 2005, 03:22:47 am
looks terrific so far! Keep going :)

Hm...it looks unfinished, does it?

Offline Darion

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Re: Beauty

Reply #3 on: December 03, 2005, 03:23:20 am
I'll edit this post later for critique, because I'm in a rush, but I'd just like to tell you that you are improving a lot. I love this.
@darionmccoy

Offline pixelblink

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Re: Beauty

Reply #4 on: December 03, 2005, 07:27:04 am
Hm...it looks unfinished, does it?

Umm.. yeah. Actually, now that I zoomed in, I can barely make out the details of the sweater. There's hardly enough contrast to see those details. At a quick glance, the whole thing looks like one big black unfinished piece.
To expand on what I liked: The hair is nice and flowing without giving too much detail. The expression on her face is alluring and interesting.. which makes it enjoyable to look at to begin with. I think maybe her face could use some more subtle shades and highlights... but that's just my opinion.

Offline Skipper

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Re: Beauty

Reply #5 on: December 03, 2005, 09:27:39 pm
Hm...it looks unfinished, does it?

Umm.. yeah. Actually, now that I zoomed in, I can barely make out the details of the sweater. There's hardly enough contrast to see those details. At a quick glance, the whole thing looks like one big black unfinished piece.
To expand on what I liked: The hair is nice and flowing without giving too much detail. The expression on her face is alluring and interesting.. which makes it enjoyable to look at to begin with. I think maybe her face could use some more subtle shades and highlights... but that's just my opinion.

Whew, thank goodness it was just the sweater that had the problem.  I thought I'd need to add more shade or highlight to the face.  Big highlights or a lot of shading on the cheek just don't look right.

But thanks, that's an easy fix.

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Beauty

Reply #6 on: December 03, 2005, 10:15:38 pm
ah. beautyfull

this thing really says something, I somehow get the feeling you really know this person and this picture is made to show something about her, the odd yellow/pink skintones and the eerie expression complement eachother incredibly well. as far as I care any detail AA selout dither or whatnot can be left to someone else , you just keep working on expressions like those, thi strikes me with a bit of a Lautrec appeal to me.

please please dont be afraid to show more personal stuff, art is about saying something, and there's nothing that can be said that is more interestin than personal stuff, this is on a wholly diferent league than everything else I've seen from you....I'd change everything you've done for another piece like this

MORE MORE MORE

I'll reserve any crits for when I have actually seen several pieces of this type, before that I dont know where they're coming from so by my standard crits would be more along the lines of insults.

Offline Filax_666

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Re: Beauty

Reply #7 on: December 04, 2005, 01:23:32 am
 :o
Sheez defenitely a beauty, at least in the way you pixeled her...

Her expression is fantastic, and yes, that yellow skintone and those realy opened eyes work great together...but what realy realy amazes me in this piece is the hair, you pixeled it with so much detail that I think my eyes will pop out from lookin too much at it!

The only thing I find wrong is the extremely small hand, in comparison to the head's size...


You should listen (in this case read) to what Camus said (in this case wrote):
please please dont be afraid to show more personal stuff, art is about saying something, and there's nothing that can be said that is more interestin than personal stuff, this is on a wholly diferent league than everything else I've seen from you....I'd change everything you've done for another piece like this

And pleeze finish this :D

Offline Blick

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Re: Beauty

Reply #8 on: December 04, 2005, 02:37:21 am
I don't know about the hand, it looks right to me. I guess it the knuckles the fingers are bent at could be moved to the left more to make the bone between the first and second knuckle a little longer, but it's more hassle than it's worth I'd say. You also have to take into consideration that there are a lot of things blocking the hand, like the sweater and hair, so it may just appear to be smaller.

Quote
I'd just like to tell you that you are improving a lot.

Offline Skipper

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Re: Beauty

Reply #9 on: December 04, 2005, 04:38:32 am
Wow, you people sure know how to make a guy feel good.  Well, here's a little contrast update:

So you boys and girls know, this is one of my best friends, Brittney, although I do wish more.
this thing really says something, I somehow get the feeling you really know this person and this picture is made to show something about her...
As camus really hit the nail on the head.
And about the hand, well that's the way it was in the picture I used as a reference.  I guess I should include that.

And now all the real crits come as to the differences from picture to pixel.  :P

Again, thank you to everyone for the great comments and compliments!

P.S. You should really praise her for the great picture as a reference. Hah, most of the base colors are directly from the picture.  And of course, her beautiful and unusual pose.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2005, 04:52:04 am by Skipper »

Offline Helm

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Re: Beauty

Reply #10 on: December 04, 2005, 12:00:47 pm
You've severily misinterpreted the lips. Both in shapes, lights and placement. Nosetrils need a bit more definition. All this considering you're interested in nailing the likness.

Offline Skipper

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Re: Beauty

Reply #11 on: December 04, 2005, 04:48:02 pm
You've severily misinterpreted the lips. Both in shapes, lights and placement. Nosetrils need a bit more definition. All this considering you're interested in nailing the likness.

An edit to help me out?  Those lips are killing me, and I just can't get them right.

Offline Helm

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Re: Beauty

Reply #12 on: December 04, 2005, 05:28:18 pm
sure, one moment. Will edit this post with the edit.

Edit: dude, you didn't measure this at all, did you? The whole face is really off, the cheeks, the chin, the nose... eeek. Still trying to pull it together a bit.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2005, 05:59:54 pm by Helm »

Offline Skipper

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Re: Beauty

Reply #13 on: December 04, 2005, 06:03:40 pm
sure, one moment. Will edit this post with the edit.

Edit: dude, you didn't measure this at all, did you? The whole face is really off, the cheeks, the chin, the nose... eeek. Still trying to pull it together a bit.

Measure?  I just traced it.

Offline Rawsushi

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Re: Beauty

Reply #14 on: December 04, 2005, 06:09:12 pm
The original image has some pretty dark shadows, so I can see how 'a trace job + bright colors - dark shadows' could add more mass and far less depth.

Offline Helm

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Re: Beauty

Reply #15 on: December 04, 2005, 06:21:33 pm


this annoys me so much. my edit isn't very competent either, but I was wasting way too much time tweaking here and there whereas the problem is structural. I didn't touch the brow that is also very broken, focus mostly on the lips. The measuring isn't close at all. I guess you can take if from where you have it to something closer in a tweaking manner, but I'd suggest you start over with a cleaner trace ( you don't need to trace in photoshop. Learn to measure with your eye and all that. It's not very difficult ) and a palette that is unified. You don't need more than 10 colours for this.

Offline Skipper

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Re: Beauty

Reply #16 on: December 04, 2005, 07:02:22 pm
this annoys me so much. my edit isn't very competent either, but I was wasting way too much time tweaking here and there whereas the problem is structural. I didn't touch the brow that is also very broken, focus mostly on the lips. The measuring isn't close at all. I guess you can take if from where you have it to something closer in a tweaking manner, but I'd suggest you start over with a cleaner trace ( you don't need to trace in photoshop. Learn to measure with your eye and all that. It's not very difficult ) and a palette that is unified. You don't need more than 10 colours for this.

I really appreciate the edit and see where I went wrong, and will work on the things you mentioned, but there is no fucking way I'm starting over. That's just a ridiculous suggestion.

Offline Helm

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Re: Beauty

Reply #17 on: December 04, 2005, 07:19:38 pm
Quote
That's just a ridiculous suggestion.

as i said, you can save if from where it is. But you won't learn to measure like that. I think measuring is a good skill to have. Since you like the subject matter, why not do several studies on it? It's what everybody does at some point. The pixel techniques are solid-ish, but the composition suffers. you can move it around until it works, or you can learn how to do this properly and start from scratch. In fact, start on a piece of paper with a pencil or something. It might sound rediculous, but I think you'd get better.

Offline Skipper

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Re: Beauty

Reply #18 on: December 04, 2005, 07:27:41 pm
Quote
That's just a ridiculous suggestion.

as i said, you can save if from where it is. But you won't learn to measure like that. I think measuring is a good skill to have. Since you like the subject matter, why not do several studies on it? It's what everybody does at some point. The pixel techniques are solid-ish, but the composition suffers. you can move it around until it works, or you can learn how to do this properly and start from scratch. In fact, start on a piece of paper with a pencil or something. It might sound rediculous, but I think you'd get better.

Thanks for the suggestions, I've always had measuring problems, come to think of it.  In drawings on paper, that is, I've never actually done a referenced pixel before, so I now realize that I have measuring problems all over the board.  I'll do my best to save it from where it is, although that may sound like a slap in the face to you, but starting over just seems incredibly daunting, and to tell you the truth, I'm kind of sick of drawing this picture.  So, expect some more in the future of this girl, and I will work on my measuring.  As for now, keep watching here for updates of what I can salvage. 

And sorry for sounding harsh earlier, I was a bit pissed off, because, as a redhead, I can be hot-tempered and I don't like being told what I've done wrong.  So, forgive me.  ;)

Offline Pixelfish Returns

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Re: Beauty

Reply #19 on: December 05, 2005, 05:54:27 pm
Really lovely work here. I like the pose and the photograph in general alot. In your pixel representation, the bottom of the collar, where you've drawn the line isn't accurate to the photo. One of the problems with photo references is understanding that there are no lines, and here, the way you've drawn it, there are lines, and it makes the face look larger than it is. Define your drawing with big spots of tone, especially around the bottom of the face and the side towards the scarf. You've made her look plumper than she is by using borders and light tone. Your lips, as well, don't have the feminine curves the original does.
And honestly, in your version and in Helm's version, I think the color choice has sapped the life from her- the vibrant oranges, reds, and yellows, and pinks in harmony are alot more interesting. And Helm is right about the value, you're gonna need to hit those darks alot harder.
Lovin' it, you're getting better and better. I came back to this stuff just so I could comment on this one piece.
Losing my shape. Trying to act casual.

Offline Skipper

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Re: Beauty

Reply #20 on: December 05, 2005, 08:05:31 pm
I came back to this stuff just so I could comment on this one piece.

That right there is a wonderful compliment in itself!  Thank you much for the crits, and I think I'm starting to make it look better, although I realise how completely I muffed this up.

Offline GOODNIGHTdestroyer

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Re: Beauty

Reply #21 on: December 05, 2005, 09:47:37 pm
I am envious on how much you are improving skipster. This is really good.

The hair is nicely done.
And I am finally seeing that you were the one worth eating.

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Beauty

Reply #22 on: December 06, 2005, 08:32:21 pm
I dont know...I actually think it would be boring if you just stuck to what the photo is like, the quirky lips and such are what makes this look special

Offline Skipper

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Re: Beauty

Reply #23 on: December 06, 2005, 09:13:51 pm
I dont know...I actually think it would be boring if you just stuck to what the photo is like, the quirky lips and such are what makes this look special

Hah, thanks, but a bit too late  ;).  But you know it will still have the 'skipper' style, because that's kind of embedded in the way I pixel anyways.  So, don't worry.

Offline Iananan

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Re: Beauty

Reply #24 on: December 06, 2005, 09:37:06 pm
helm's makes this better, but what i see with the lips is that they're too separated from the rest of her face, if you blur your eyes or squint, there's not that much difference in the photo

Offline xio

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Re: Beauty

Reply #25 on: December 06, 2005, 09:53:32 pm
First off, great effort. You obviously put very much time and energy into this. I know this thread has been floating around for a while, and there has already been a lot said here, but I noticed something that bothered me. That is the hair. The stands look very think. It reminds me of a doll my sister had with yarn hair. I realize this is very much a WIP, but I wanted to point out that the hair should have much greater color depth, and it should be much finer in appearence.

Offline Skipper

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Re: Beauty

Reply #26 on: December 10, 2005, 01:31:22 am
At long last, a result:


Big thank you to Helm.  And if any more crits exist, please, I invite you to share.  But the hair...that just took too damn long, and I don't think it looks much like doll hair.  Just an opinion thing.

P.S. I hate dithering and am no good at it, but it's a necessary evil. 

P.P.S. Oh yes, and it's down to 20 colors, from its original 23.

Offline Blick

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Re: Beauty [upDated]

Reply #27 on: December 10, 2005, 04:43:35 am
The two darkest skin tones aren't sitting well with me. They're too orange for my liking, especially the second to darkest. They just don't blend in to the next color very well, I think.

It's looking great though, especially now that you've given more structure to the face, what with adding some shadow and highlights on her cheekbones.

Offline Darion

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Re: Beauty [upDated]

Reply #28 on: December 10, 2005, 06:44:42 pm
I don't feel like reading all the comments already posted ... hopefully that doesn't make me look like a retard.

The first thing i noticed thats not quite accurate is the nose. Yours has no curvature in it, while hers goes in, then back out. You also start the curve of her brow a bit too high. She also has obvious curves where her lips meet; yours has almost no curve to them. You've come a far way though, and I applaud you for that.

Beautiful girl too, I hope you hit that.



@darionmccoy

Offline Dan

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Re: Beauty [upDated]

Reply #29 on: December 10, 2005, 07:03:08 pm
Wow, this is some good work! Not really any crits but what made you do the jumper black not blue? Or has this already been stated and i have just missed it coz i am very tired and very unaware! :S Anyways love it! Yes she is beautiful!

Thanks,

Dan
That's the way the cookie crumbles. - Do the bug bob.     - Woot!

Offline Skipper

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Re: Beauty [upDated]

Reply #30 on: December 10, 2005, 07:14:52 pm
Man, how did I not notice that nose problem?  I'll get right on that.  But not sure what you mean with the lips...where they meet looks curvular to me, but I guess I could up it a bit.  I'll try to fudge with the colors on the face, but it's tough to make them really blend while keeping them that warm-ish orange.  And the sweater...well, I took the base color from the picture itself, so it's a sort of blue-ish grey, really.  Not a black if you really look at it.
And thank you, I think she is amazingly beautiful as well.  :)
I'll get to work on your crits, and share any more that you may have.

Very slight update:

Fixed the things talked about, or do I need a more drastic update?
Ah yes, and I added the new shade to the hand.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2005, 07:49:28 pm by Skipper »

Offline Blick

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Re: Beauty [upDated]

Reply #31 on: December 10, 2005, 07:58:22 pm
I think I see what Darion is saying. The lips have to curve at the right side, since her face isn't flat and all. Right now they're viewed a bit too straight on.

Offline Dan

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Re: Beauty [upDated]

Reply #32 on: December 10, 2005, 08:52:43 pm
Hmm i have noticed something that might just be me... If you look where the collor meets the face it looks like the face is on top of the collor rather than going inside it a bit like in the photo... If you see what i mean. Nothing major, i could even just be my screen.

Thanks,

Dan
That's the way the cookie crumbles. - Do the bug bob.     - Woot!

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Beauty [upDated]

Reply #33 on: December 11, 2005, 09:19:08 pm
meh..that just looks like any other photo trace

Offline Peppermint Pig

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Re: Beauty [upDated]

Reply #34 on: December 11, 2005, 09:26:34 pm
Quote
meh..that just looks like any other photo trace

Even so, it's a good way to learn.

Offline Skipper

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Re: Beauty [upDated]

Reply #35 on: December 11, 2005, 09:41:31 pm
meh..that just looks like any other photo trace
You're honestly saying you'd rather have the chubby-faced, crooked/disconnected lipped original?  Well, to each his own.  I feel like I've improved from this experience.

Offline Helm

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Re: Beauty [upDated]

Reply #36 on: December 11, 2005, 11:29:59 pm
I think you have improved critical skills from this as well. First you learn to walk, then to run, then to fly.

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Beauty [upDated]

Reply #37 on: December 12, 2005, 12:02:33 am
yeah yeah....good for you and whatnot

EDIT: well, really...it is good that you learn new techniques and such....if it really makes you feel like you have a better grasp, then so be it.

you just do what  moves you forward

just...keep around the old version and look back at it in a few months :p maybe you can see what I meant?
« Last Edit: December 12, 2005, 12:44:47 am by Camus »

Offline David

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Re: Beauty [upDated]

Reply #38 on: December 12, 2005, 01:52:52 am
Camus, you have a point, but you have to admit that the subject and pose of this particular piece is much better than your average picture to pixel work.

Offline Alex

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Re: Beauty [upDated]

Reply #39 on: December 12, 2005, 03:33:58 am
mod edit: out of line, out of topic. Reconsider your posting habits.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2005, 03:48:18 am by Helm »
alexander

Offline Darion

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Re: Beauty [upDated]

Reply #40 on: December 12, 2005, 03:45:37 am
Egh ... when I critiqued the lips, I was looking at a previous version; I missed your update after that one. Sorry about that. Scratch that.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2005, 04:04:27 am by Darion »
@darionmccoy

Offline Alex

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Re: Beauty [upDated]

Reply #41 on: December 12, 2005, 05:03:32 pm
I will not reconsider my posting habits because to be honest, it was not out of line and you know that.
alexander

Offline Skipper

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Re: Beauty [upDated]

Reply #42 on: December 12, 2005, 08:00:40 pm
I will not reconsider my posting habits because to be honest, it was not out of line and you know that.

I'm really curious as to what you said now...

And thank you to the rest of you, I appreciate all the positive (and slightly-disagreeable) responses I've been getting.  And I will keep the older version for posterity.

Offline Helm

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Re: Beauty [upDated]

Reply #43 on: December 12, 2005, 08:08:27 pm
He attacked camus for no reason. The matter has been taken for discussion with the mods. Move along.

Offline Skipper

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Re: Beauty [upDated]

Reply #44 on: December 12, 2005, 08:36:05 pm

Offline Kazuya Mochu

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Re: Beauty [upDated]

Reply #45 on: December 12, 2005, 09:44:23 pm
I think both Camus and Skipper brought up a good subject without knowing it. Appart from Helm's self portrait, I've seen very little portraits that aren't eighther cartoony things or picture traces.
I belive skipper can learn quite a good amont of things with a paint over or trace. but I also thing its very healthy to try and draw from eye. Just as you learn color relation from color picking a photo, you can also learn about proportions bye eyecopying an imagem.

Any ways!!!

Skipper, you image is really nice. I related to your girlfriend as soon as I saw it. I remember both of you from pixelation and I think you did a good job!
I like the colors, and the way you shaded it!

take care,

Kazuya
Image size doesn't matter! It's what you do with your pixels that counts!

Offline madafacka

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Re: Beauty [upDated]

Reply #46 on: December 13, 2005, 01:23:05 am
He attacked camus for no reason. The matter has been taken for discussion with the mods. Move along.

Quote from: camus
meh..that just looks like any other photo trace

That is a very destructive comment if you ask me.

As for the pic, i dunno if i have anything else to say, i think you did a very well job with it. I love your palette; keep at it, man.

Offline Skipper

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Re: Beauty [upDated]

Reply #47 on: December 13, 2005, 11:48:15 am
Quote from: camus
meh..that just looks like any other photo trace

That is a very destructive comment if you ask me.

I thought so too.  Didn't exactly make me feel accomplished.

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Beauty [upDated]

Reply #48 on: December 13, 2005, 12:25:21 pm
well, I didnt really think it was a big deal...but putting some thought to it, I think had I seen someone do that back in the day I would've been pissed and given that person a lot of shit.

I guess it just means I dont care anymore

I keep pissing people off, and then soomeone comes and supports me, and then the thing becomes incredibly pathetic in how transparent it is that I'm plain wrong but people stick with me because i'm "camus".....

And then I think god how silly that was, but then I go and keep doings things like this.

seems like there's no way out

I'll refrain from posting until I feel I've changed my life significatively

Offline Kazuya Mochu

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Re: Beauty [upDated]

Reply #49 on: December 13, 2005, 12:32:46 pm
well, I dont think my post was much of a "Go Camus!" but more of a "theres allways something we can take out of a critique. sometimes its just the "why would that person say that".

just like if I posted the most perfectly made ISO box! people would come and say: "right... it's just a box!" doesn't exacly meen my box look bad, but more "i've pretty much seen alot of boxes and fail to see the inovation on this one".

anyways, again, not supporting any one, just taking the good out of both posts!

let's not force helm into creating another separate thread for discussing this :D

take care,

Kazuya Mochu
Image size doesn't matter! It's what you do with your pixels that counts!

Offline Gazette

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Re: Beauty [upDated]

Reply #50 on: December 13, 2005, 05:13:56 pm
I dont do much realistic art myself, but i can tell you to me it seems you made the lips a bit too large, as well as the eyes. The eyes also seem a bit too large, and almost a little too bulgy.

Offline madafacka

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Re: Beauty [upDated]

Reply #51 on: December 13, 2005, 05:35:29 pm

I keep pissing people off, and then soomeone comes and supports me, and then the thing becomes incredibly pathetic in how transparent it is that I'm plain wrong but people stick with me because i'm "camus".....


I think you are being a little paranoid about that. Anyways, i dont want any trouble for this, so im gonna keep myself away from this thread. :)

Offline Helm

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Re: Beauty [upDated]

Reply #52 on: December 13, 2005, 08:21:50 pm
Yes. this conversation is over any way you cut it. *glare*

Offline Skipper

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Re: Beauty [upDated]

Reply #53 on: December 13, 2005, 08:26:39 pm
Hah, yes, this has gone quite far off the path.  But just so everyone knows, I'm done with this number, printed it out on photo paper and am giving it as a gift.  Expect more of this subject matter in the future, if I really feel up to it.