Challenges and helpful editing

[The B.O.B.]

As a frequent user here on pixelation, and on pixeljoint, I guess I have to give my 2 pesos:

   To be honest, I've never had any issues with a member asking for help here or on the pj forums. I can also say that I've NEVER noticed a direct correlation between users submitted wips here at Pixelation for pj competitions and the people who win. I have noticed, however, that the winners of the competitions, are usually frequent Pixelation users, or frequent pj posters, who have developed some great skills over the years. That just goes along with the territory of practice makes perfect. As far as any one who's used a piece directly edited by a member here, you can either report it to the mods and admins at PJ, or even me if you wish, and we'll review what's going on. Getting help is one thing, but using rips and edits is intolerable in my opinion. I'm still kinda' iffy about allowing linearts in pj, to be honest, as I only want people to birth original ideas, and not develop problems another user has.(like a constant cancer that can't be stopped, due to a low excuse of "style" to hide behind)
    I'm in agreement over keeping these websites in "friendly separation" mode, as they are two different beasts all together. (none better than the other, just different) And I don't think hindering the amount of help users offer will make matters any better. Yes, the user base here does seem to have some great talent, and critique, but that's mainly due to it's small user base of active members, while PJ has a larger user base, making it difficult to focus some great attention or critique towards some of the people who ask for it. Either way, competition is a great motivator for young artistic minds, willing to improve. Ever since pj competitions began, the amount of submitted art, and quality of certain users has improved GREATLY, in my humble opinion.

   So again, Ilkke, if you feel a user's edited piece was directly taken in vain without permission, contact or advise the square heads of the round table(pj admins and mods) and we will deal with it accordingly...just my opinion. 

*I hope this thread was ok to respond to, don't mean to reopen any dead topic or anything...

[Helm]

The topic was started yesterday so it's not dead of course, and thank you all for posting.

[Feron]

I don't really think its an issue.  I (like most others i hope) am participating in the weekly challenge for fun and to try and get better... I couldn't care less about the pixeljoint award thing.

anyone who takes edits of their work as their own is only cheating themselves.

[Scuba Steve]

If you look at an edit, see what you did wrong...

That's the only thing I took exception to.  An edit isn't to fix something "wrong"... but, I would say, to demonstrate a technique, method or change that might be more effective.  Your fundamental argument is fine... I just didn't like the use of the word "wrong".  I don't think this is a math equation that has a correct answer, but there are certainly more effective methods that an edit can help illustrate.

[Helm]

I don't think there's any math equation. When you see an edit of your work and you decide that the edit does things better than what you did then from your own point of view you've done something wrong and can amend it by following the example of the edit. I don't really want to argue over scemantics, though I can see how someone would object to what seem like objective value judgements about art, but then again I never claimed to make objective anything.

[Scuba Steve]

You're right, it is a petty argument of semantics, since we seem to agree on the nature of edits.  I just think that referring to edits as helpful advice rather than "correcting" something wrong helps make them more palatable for critique... who likes being told "you're wrong".

That does bring up another thing that I think could go a long way to help people give more effective critiques.  Pixelation has always been a terrific site for constructive criticism on artwork, something many art sites I have visited don't have.  A large part of this is the members who take the time to reply and give helpful suggestions and art advice.  However, I think a number of critiques forget to point out what the person is doing right.  It is much easier to point out what someone can work on... but takes work to point out what they are doing right.  The most beneficial part of positive criticism is not turning the artists away... Telling someone their piece needs to work on anatomy, scale, composition and shading are valid criticisms... but nobody likes to hear nothing but what they are doing wrong.  A little positive feedback makes a lot of difference, and I think sometimes it is missing in lengthy critiques.

[Cow]

nobody likes to hear nothing but what they are doing wrong

I don't mind. I'd honestly rather know what should be done better, rather than expecting people to sugarcoat it for me.

[ndchristie]

nobody likes to hear nothing but what they are doing wrong

I don't mind. I'd honestly rather know what should be done better, rather than expecting people to sugarcoat it for me.

A lot of people, myself included, like to think and act that way until we get a real string of "no no no!" posts.  At that point, it moves from "here are things i need to work on" to "oh my god this will never be good!" and it helps tremendously for someone to say, for instance, I like the color of your grass  .  Not only is there finally a glimer in the dark, but you get to cross one thing off your long list of things to get right.

[The B.O.B.]

   It's ok to get some ass pats every once in a while for things done right, but I don't necessarily  believe it to be a requirement in posts giving pointers about what "could" be easier on the eyes. To me, it's just extra cannon fodder, dancing around the point, or basically someone trying to be nice, and cancel out any negative statements that the recipient may have previously read. We've all done it before, and can't deny it: " Well, the neck seems a little long, and body seems out of proportion to his legs...but I like what you've done with his hair : ) " To me, it's a matter of being polite and showing some respect for another fellow artist, so you don't come off like a total jerk ( A mother's teachings go a long way...) Though I NEVER have believed that a critique NEEDS constructive, AND positive feedback. I guess to put it in simple terms, it's ok to be positive or nice as long as the issue has been addressed clearly(not that the word "issue" signifies any negative statements overall...Ugh, I feel like a politician, trying not to use the word "right" or "wrong" in this whole damn post. I've been "PC"-ified through artistic revision.)

[ndchristie]

well there's a HUGE difference between an asspat and somebody saying "this one part looks good, so you can move on and use it as a reference mark as you go about the rest of your pieces"

there's also the sort of "alright, that looks better! here's what to work on now" posts that are a lot more helpful than posting an edit just to hear what else sucks without feedback as to whether you've improved anything.