heres is a guy who ripped me off

[billybob]

here is our converation

Suerte Heights - Top Form says:
Hey
tom says:
hello
tom says:
finally working
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:

tom says:
so what did you want to talk to me about?
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:
I need you on msn, so we can talk. I have all staff onmsn

Anyway, what has Harry told you to do?
tom says:
well no-one has told me anything yet
tom says:
why?
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:
Ok

I need to have a word with Harry
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:
when was the last time he spoke to you, and what did he say?
tom says:
is harry zeko?
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:
yes
tom says:
he said you were getting up your funds before you asked us for anything
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:
I have £50 transferring from my bank to paypal. That takes 9 days, however I need to know how much you charge, and are you ok with making stuff, then waiting for pay
tom says:
I'm ok with that but would it be ok for check by mail? I live in th UK as well
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:
No, I don't have a check book. Paypal is how I pay.
tom says:
wait there a second please
tom says:
I'm back, also I don't have paypal, zeko said on PJ (pixeljoint) that the oayment would either be paypal or check by mail, I guess theres no check by mail?
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:
I don't know why he said that.

I am going to have to speak to him about this
tom says:
ok, I'm too young to have paypal unfortunaly
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:

I am underage too, but I still have it. Most people do
tom says:
my mom won't let me get it though thats the problem
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:
L6Right...
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:
 
tom says:
I'm 13 I'll have too ask my dad
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:
I am 13 too buddy

I have had paypal for over 1 year
tom says:
oh well I'll go ask my dad thats what my mom just said to do, wait a miniute
tom says:
I just remembered he's at work
tom says:
lol
tom says:
but when he gets back I'll ask him
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:
k
tom says:
I'll be happy to still do the work in the meantime
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:
ok great
tom says:
so what do you have in mind
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:
Umm what can you do?
tom says:
well I can do pretty much everything just I can do some things better than others
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:
ok could you try and make some art for our new upcoming radio station
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:
like logos, icons etc
tom says:
yeah ok, what icons do you want?
tom says:
also can you say a rough size for each
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:
umm maybe a mic, a logo saying Radio or something... maybe a nice pixel timetable layout etc?
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:
icons need to be like the size of a habbo badge
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:
logo needs to be no bigger than the suerte logo
tom says:
I've never been on habbo hotel
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:
and pixel timetable needs to have the days Mon-Sun and have from 0.00 MIDNIGHT to 11.00PM
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:
that ok?
tom says:
yeah sure any particular color scheme?
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:
same as website

www.suerteheights.com

and maybe add a bit of www.suerteheights.com/board into it
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:
how long is that going to take?
tom says:
well the icons I'de say about a few miniutes (are they like play, stop and all those things?) the whole layout about another few minuites the logo should also take only about a few miniutes
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:
could you design us a radio station website layout aswell?
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:
anyway, afk
tom says:
I could try the layout out thing, might not be able to though (also what does afk mean)
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:
away from jkeyboard
tom says:
ok, lol I'll start working on it now, I'll keep up my MSN incase you want anything else added
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:
Hows it going
tom says:
well I have an idea and I'm satarting the logo do you like the idea of the word radio but the i is a microphone?
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:
Nice!
tom says:
thanks I have just finished the R it's quite big and now I'm doing the a
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:

tom says:
 would you like nice simple letters or really detailed or a mixture
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:
whatever you think looks best
tom says:
I'll try mixture
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:
ok
tom says:
just finished the A
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:
can i see so far?
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:
?
tom says:
I'm uploading now
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:
k
tom says:
imageshack is really slow
tom says:
still uploading
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:
k
tom says:
I have just done a bit on the D whilst waiting
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:
k
tom says:
nearly uploaded
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:
k
tom says:
http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/105/logoscreenshotgo8.png
tom says:
I'm gonna have breakfast soon
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:
k
your not GMT time then?

Also its a a bit large
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:
anyway, show me again when it is done
tom says:
no I am I'm just having breakfast late, I live in the west midlands in england, also is that too big? beacause I used your logo I copy and pasted it to get the right size, anyway breakfast now
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:
O, the size is ok then
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:
also its mid afternoon, should be having lunch xD
tom says:
yeah it was more of a lunchy breakfast
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:
xD

tom says:
it was brunch, I had a ham sandwhich and a cup of tea
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:

tom says:
more lunchy than breakfasty
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:
514Are you mad?!?
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:
xD
tom says:
also I am allowed the paypal account
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:
WOW great
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:
+45Wooooow!
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:
Anyway, show me the logo when it is finished 
tom says:
I'm making it now ( the paypal account)
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:
94Oh my God!
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:
great
once the logo is complete, send it on over
Suerte Heights - Top Form says:
!10Be right back
tom says:
will do
tom says:
just done the D
Suerte Video Chat - Online for the next 15 mins - Talk to me says:

tom says:
would £20 be ok with you?
tom says:
for the the logo and all of the the actual radio for the layout if I get that done £5?
Suerte Video Chat - Online for the next 15 mins - Talk to me says:
£20 for the radio website layout, and all the icons, and logos etc?
tom says:
yes but £5 for the layout of the web page
tom says:
haggle if you want
Suerte Video Chat - Online for the next 15 mins - Talk to me says:
£25 is alot....

as this anit going to take you very long... £25 - I can get a full made website for that
tom says:
ok how about £15?
tom says:
£5 still for the actual website that is
tom says:
*website layout that
Suerte Video Chat - Online for the next 15 mins - Talk to me says:
so you want
£15 for a couple of icons, a logo and a website layout?
tom says:
is that ok (this is my first paid job)
Suerte Video Chat - Online for the next 15 mins - Talk to me says:
that is kind of steep

£10 sounds reasonable. Also you say this is your first PAID job, so you used to work for free?
tom says:
yes
Suerte Video Chat - Online for the next 15 mins - Talk to me says:
you could work for free at suerte xD
you still get the usergroup, the staff access, perissions etc
tom says:
no I'm ok, £10 it is
Suerte Video Chat - Online for the next 15 mins - Talk to me says:
;(

tom says:
lol
Suerte Video Chat - Online for the next 15 mins - Talk to me says:
if you worked free before, surely you can work free again xD?
Suerte Video Chat - Online for the next 15 mins - Talk to me says:
*7Come on!
tom says:
hmm to be paid, or not to be paid, I think I'll choose paid
Suerte Video Chat - Online for the next 15 mins - Talk to me says:
k
Suerte Video Chat - Online for the next 15 mins - Talk to me says:
£10 it is
tom says:
ok
tom says:
just out of curiosity whats enselletis doing?
Suerte Video Chat - Online for the next 15 mins - Talk to me says:
No idea, have not spoke to him. I think Harry has spoke to him
Suerte Video Chat - Online for the next 15 mins - Talk to me says:
[Messenger Plus! Sound] - Data{D7F043FDC20E} - English                                        
tom says:
oh mkay
Suerte Video Chat - Online for the next 15 mins - Talk to me says:

tom says:
finished the microphone
Suerte Heights - Radio Anyone? says:
lets see
tom says:
all of this that I've done is the line art though
tom says:
also I hope you don't mind but the next previews will have the word preview writen on it (my dad said just to be a bit careful) no offence
Suerte Heights - Radio Anyone? says:
;l
You are contracted to Suerte. We are not going to steal the work. If we did, you could ruin us in a second.

Buddy, if we are going to work together we work as a team
tom says:
oh ok, well I guess I wont then (and by contracted do you mean I am working for you whenever you need me or just for this layout?)
tom says:
anyways here it is so far
tom says:
http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/9660/logoscreenshotoc1.png
tom says:
hope you like the mic
Suerte Heights - Radio Anyone? says:
Did you sign a contract with Harry?
tom says:
no
Suerte Heights - Radio Anyone? says:
o right.

Anyway, i like the radio, but have you enlarged that ,as its really big (the word radio)
tom says:
 no I havent enlarged it I'm zoomed in
Suerte Heights - Radio Anyone? says:
thats what I ment xD
tom says:
yeah I'm using a program called graphics gale it can zoom in to 4000%
Suerte Heights - Radio Anyone? says:
k
tom says:
nearly done with the O
Suerte Heights - Radio Anyone? says:

tom says:
in fact I only have to add a few more pixels then all the lineart for the logo is done
Suerte Heights - Radio Anyone? says:

tom says:
uploading the screenshot now
Suerte Heights - Radio Anyone? says:
k
tom says:
http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/2742/logoscreenshotqz6.png
tom says:
brb
tom says:
i'm back
Suerte Heights - Radio Anyone? says:
Ok... I
Suerte Heights - Radio Anyone? says:
[Messenger Plus! Sound] - Data{D7F043FDC20E} - English                                        
tom says:
I havent registered MSN so I didnt here that
Suerte Heights - Radio Anyone? says:
you need Messanger plus to hear it
tom says:
oh I havent got that
Suerte Heights - Radio Anyone? says:
ok carry on with the graphics
tom says:
what color for the letters do you want?
Suerte Heights - Radio Anyone? says:
mutlicolour ?
tom says:
how about red and blue they go together
Suerte Heights - Radio Anyone? says:
yeah , and they are suerte colours
tom says:
XD
tom says:
what color for the mic do you want
Suerte Heights - Radio Anyone? says:
black handle, colourful buttons and then maybe like a greyish but looks like foam top
tom says:
ok
tom says:
just finished coloring and shading R
Suerte Heights - Radio Anyone? says:

tom says:
I'll give you another screenshot if you want
Suerte Heights - Radio Anyone? says:
yesh please
tom says:
imageshack is going wrong I'll find another image hosting site (I know loads)
Suerte Heights - Radio Anyone? says:

tom says:
nearly done uploading and I'm also nearly done with the A
Suerte Heights - Radio Anyone? says:
k
tom says:
that one didnt work either so I just tried imageshack again plus I have done the A http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/7590/logoscreenshotdo3.png
Suerte Heights - Radio Anyone? says:
sorry but thats a bit tatty. Its nothing like your other art
tom says:
it ok your paying for it, I think you deserve to be a bit picky
Suerte Heights - Radio Anyone? says:
we are aiming for standards like www.bittybay.co.uk
www.sokucity.com

we want to be up to thatstandard
tom says:
I think I've improved it
Suerte Heights - Radio Anyone? says:
show
tom says:
one more thing first
Suerte Heights - Radio Anyone? says:
k
tom says:
done now it's uploading
Suerte Heights - Radio Anyone? says:

tom says:
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/1171/logoscreenshotfv5.png
Suerte Heights - Radio Anyone? says:
its not really the pixel style we are looking for
Suerte Heights - Radio Anyone? says:
www.bittybay.co.uk

look at the launch button. That is the sort of thing we are looking for
tom says:
should I just redo the shading then?
Suerte Heights - Radio Anyone? says:
ye
tom says:
okay
tom says:
like this:
tom says:
http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/9731/logoscreenshotdt6.png
tom says:
?
Suerte Heights - Radio Anyone? says:
it stil has a bit of tackyness to it
tom says:
yeah thats that style on a big peice for ya
Suerte Heights - Radio Anyone? says:
could you maybe make it smaller
tom says:
yeah sure might take abit though
Suerte Heights - Radio Anyone? says:
k
tom says:
I have made the letters smaller (do you want the mic detailed or shaded like I have done the letters?
Suerte Heights - GRR says:
needs to be detailed too
tom says:
the mic detailed or the letters
Suerte Heights - GRR says:
all
tom says:
but you said for it to be like bitty bay
Suerte Heights - GRR says:
yes... that is detailed.
Suerte Heights - GRR says:
we want that kind of style
tom says:
for the mic as well by detail I meant the shading ttype I was doing before
Suerte Heights - GRR says:
No. it needs to be the same style throughout
tom says:
ok I just thought it might look better but your the boss
tom says:
well... you know what I mean
tom says:
http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/2722/radiologohu7.gif
tom says:
that is the finished peice
 
You have just sent a nudge.
 
Suerte Heights - GRR says:
hang on
Suerte Heights - GRR says:
sorry its really not what we are looking for
Suerte Heights - GRR says:
please try and do the icons
Suerte Heights - GRR says:

tom says:
ok so I guess you want play, pause, rewind, and fast forward? 32 x 32?
Suerte Heights - GRR says:
and a little mic icon, and like a radi icon
Suerte Heights - GRR says:
*radio
tom says:
I just wanna ask but how do I know your not gonna use the logo because I have been sending you all the WIPS and you were saying it's ok ect, but then out of the blue you say it's not what were looking for? plus I did everything you asked, so it was too your liking, I'm not so sure you arent going to use it
Suerte Heights - GRR says:
I am not going to use that.

It does  not suit the style
tom says:
well everything else that I make is going to have preview on it
Anyone want to buy SH? says:
k
tom says:
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/7514/playbuttonscreenshotsl6.png
tom says:
thats the play button
Anyone want to buy SH? says:

tom says:
so is that okay also what color for the buttons do you want
Anyone want to buy SH? says:
your the designer
maybe a nice orange, red ?
tom says:
okay
tom says:
also how much will I be getting now that I'm not doing the logo
Anyone want to buy SH? says:
maybe the same price
tom says:
ok
tom says:
also do like this style:
tom says:
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/6883/playbuttonscreenshotak4.png
Anyone want to buy SH? says:
nop
Anyone want to buy SH? says:
i need art like in ou dp
tom says:
what?
Anyone want to buy SH? says:
yuour dp
Anyone want to buy SH? says:
quality art
tom says:
that is what most artists I know would give
tom says:
you
Anyone want to buy SH? says:
you didnt make it
tom says:
i did make it but that is the same quality anyone else would do
tom says:
well actually some might give a different style but thats the most common style
Anyone want to buy SH? says:
i need that soert of quality
Anyone want to buy SH? says:

tom says:
actually if you want me too continue I will require the pay in advance because I really do think your trying to rip me off
Anyone want to buy SH? says:
rip you off?
how?

and like I said, i am waiting for money to transferr from bank to paypal, takes 9 days
tom says:
by using my things without pay, and I'll wait 9 days
Anyone want to buy SH? says:
I wont use them

and even if I did, you would still get pay
tom says:
I don't have any proof nor am I under contract so you don't really have too so I can't be sure but if you want me  to continue I will need the pay in advance
Anyone want to buy SH? says:
your dad is being too protective
tom says:
no this is actually me plus I posted this whole conversation on a forum and quite a few people said you were probably ripping me off
Anyone want to buy SH? says:
;l
tom says:
so will I get it in advance?
Anyone want to buy SH? says:
no.

I would advise that you don't work for him his site is suerteheights.com/site, and thiere are two people who are asking for people too help Zeko and Constant if they ask you for anything just don't do it unless you arent going to do it for pay

[pixelblink]

I strongly suggest against anyone "working" for MMOCCs. 99% of them are crap and I've seen multiple sites being run by the same people in order to get free art from people. Chances are you can tell how professional a potential employer is by their use of proper grammar and willingness to set up a contract

[.TakaM]

I am very thorough when discussing pay, I usually try to organize 1/3 up front, another third halfway and then the final third at the end

[Gil]

Okay, disclaimer: I might sound like a jerk in some of this, but I'm only saying this, because you have to learn from these mistakes. We're talking money here

1) Don't do bussiness with 13 year olds
2) £15 is not steep, you could've asked for at least £20 for the stuff you'd be making for him
3) Like TakaM said, arrange the payment ahead
4) Your art is not good enough to do paid work, sorry
5) When someone tells you to follow a certain style, follow it, yours is completely out of style
6) You have no proof that he wouldn't have paid you if you'd have finished the job with the quality he expected
7) It would take me exactly 1 minute to remove those preview fonts, he could've ripped you off any time he wanted...

So, I'm sorry, but I'll have to pick sides for the other guy

[Feron]

Was it really neccesary to posot the WHOLE conversation, i starting reading it, but then realise only the last few sentences relate to this thread.

I'm with gil on this one, to be honest the artwork in question is hardly steal-able - i mean what's he gonna do with a lineart for a textual logo.  Plus £10 is nothing, really...

It's a good experience for you to learn how to handle freelance work.  With untrust-worthy characters like this, never give them exactly what they want without some sort of payment in advance, or make sure you slap a load of sample signs over it and save as jpeg .  If its an employer you can trust who has paid up before - then you can be a bit more slack in the ammount of protection you use, but considering this is your first paid job ever, i would be very cautious who you deal with.

For that logo - it would have been a lot easier for you to go into photosho and just write it in a font btw...

+ anyone who thinks it takes paypal 9 days to get funds in there is dodgy... it never takes that long, its normally done instantly if not within the hour.

[ndchristie]

make sure in advance that you will be payed for the work you do, and do not give it over until signed.  If the employer needs something first, show them a portfolio or do a sample of work you do not intend to receive pay for.  If they demand you turn in work before payment is agreed upon, then you must not work for them.  'nuff said, i think.

[Nuno1]

This is pretty funny,

I have just got ripped of from billybob himself . after been ripped off, I have search over the forum for any activites he have done in past and find out this post.

I have asked for a sample of is work, he gave me somthing that was good for me, I paid part of the amount in advance, (only 35$ , no big deal) and from then till today (2 weeks and a half later) he never responsed to any of my emails.

Understanding now that I have talked with a 13 years old kid, I start to question myself how could I have trust him.

I am glad I do learn from my mistakes.

Nuno1

[ptoing]

Nuno1, please don't go gravedigging old threads. Thanks. Locked.