AuthorTopic: ff vincent(warning HUGE image)  (Read 12699 times)

Offline Ryumaru

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ff vincent(warning HUGE image)

on: November 23, 2005, 02:11:57 am
ima post it as a wip this time, so my random dithering and madman colorchoice wont be called a reduced cg
i dont know if ill ever finish it soon, but im going to try. if you have crits post them now while im not to fed up with it  ;D

Offline Helm

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Re: ff vincent(warning HUGE image)

Reply #1 on: November 23, 2005, 02:14:01 am
no worries, this is pixel art methodology. I don't know what the point is at this size, but good luck finishing it.

EDIT: to be fair, when you cleaned this up from lineart, there were some artifacts left, but hey, lineart isn't cheating. colour-reducing CG work is :P

Offline Dogmeat

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Re: ff vincent(warning HUGE image)

Reply #2 on: November 23, 2005, 02:21:20 am
I can't wait to see this completed, looks good.

ah helm....

As for cheating, no such thing in the land of professional design, whatever gets the job done and gets the desired product on the desired platform is how I see it. I say if you know tricks to get high detail stuff done in 10x less time then you are truly a professional. Time is money.

Speaking from a "purist" standpoint of course what I just said is blasphemy, but I was never a purist, I haven't been able to draw very well since I was a teen.
Daisuke Nagano Yokoyama

Offline Ryumaru

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Re: ff vincent(warning HUGE image)

Reply #3 on: November 23, 2005, 02:22:31 am
oh there was basically no lineart cleaning at all, just put it in gg and 2 color depth. oh and you could talk to indigo, he says to take another look at the other pixel art ive done.the purpose of the size is... well, ive gone crazy

Offline Helm

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Re: ff vincent(warning HUGE image)

Reply #4 on: November 23, 2005, 02:31:56 am
what other pixel art?


what could be construed as artifacts is that next to black, you're buffering into your deep bluish gray shades THROUGH A RETINA BURNING RED. Which isn't a good choice, artistically, pixel-art wise or whatever.

Quote
As for cheating, no such thing in the land of professional design, whatever gets the job done and gets the desired product on the desired platform is how I see it. I say if you know tricks to get high detail stuff done in 10x less time then you are truly a professional. Time is money.

Sure, I agree. Being 'pro' equals getting the job done, in time, with high quality. But a 'pro' pixel artist in my book isn't just one who gets paid. It's one who knows all the pixel art techniques and uses them to the advantage of his artwork. I don't think this is professional design though, this is ryumaru making a crazy large pixel art portrait :P there are no 'rules' to having fun, either, I agree, but this board doesn't have much to tell to people who take shortcuts for props and faux-respect like colour-reducing CG pieces to 'LOL FOOL US'. Not saying this piece is such, I don't think it is. Seriously, I eagerly await to see the progress on this.

Offline Ryumaru

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Re: ff vincent(warning HUGE image)

Reply #5 on: November 23, 2005, 02:36:43 am
the other pixel art, as in the one of the topic you locked. and those shades arent burning your retinas because of their color, its the colors nearthem that make it do that. i kinda like it like that. it makes things "pop out" at you. and if your eagerly awaiting the progress on this you might be a bit dissapointed im lazyier than rip van winkle. plus im working on some other things(deff. not as big tho)

Offline Helm

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Re: ff vincent(warning HUGE image)

Reply #6 on: November 23, 2005, 03:16:53 am
Sorry, stand by my call on the other piece. Let's not dwell. Unless you feel wronged, in which case, take it up with Peppermint.

Offline Ryumaru

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Re: ff vincent(warning HUGE image)

Reply #7 on: November 23, 2005, 03:28:02 am
well, i do feel wronged, but its not that big of a deal, things go by. anyways, if more people comment ill show some more recent works of mine, one of which i really would like some help with

Offline Gil

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Re: ff vincent(warning HUGE image)

Reply #8 on: November 23, 2005, 03:55:53 am
Okay, this IS pixel art, but I still believe it's colour reduced CG, sorry. Nothing personal or anything, but I don't believe you do this pixel by pixel...

Offline Ryumaru

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Re: ff vincent(warning HUGE image)

Reply #9 on: November 23, 2005, 04:01:03 am
heh, i prepared for this. if you seriously have no dought in your mind that its a reduced cg i can show you most of the steps i took along with writings about when i did it. would you like to see?

Offline Peppermint Pig

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Re: ff vincent(warning HUGE image)

Reply #10 on: November 23, 2005, 04:03:01 am
Steps would be nice, but it's  your call. Explaining the piece could help. I don't like the mix of ordered dither and random dither. The comment about using the bright warm shades in the metal doesn't sit easy with me, but it's your piece. Good luck with this.

Offline Gil

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Re: ff vincent(warning HUGE image)

Reply #11 on: November 23, 2005, 04:07:07 am
Yes, I would like to see them. Don't see this as a negative, I'll be pleasantly surprised if you adequately prove me wrong :)

Oh, and I've got nothing against colour reduction btw, I use it myself on some pieces, it's just that I don't like an attitude where you'd use it and not admit it...

Offline Ryumaru

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Re: ff vincent(warning HUGE image)

Reply #12 on: November 23, 2005, 04:14:45 am
lineart:


the first thing i started on was the ear

then i decided to block in the colors of the face

then of course dithered the face, later some colors were changed

after that, i played a bit working on some random things then decided to work on the collar

then again with the dithering

and then again after more playing and working on the whole image i decided to do some hair

if youre not completely satisfied i kinda did like a pixel journal about it, doesnt say about all of it tho.

Offline Xion

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Re: ff vincent(warning HUGE image)

Reply #13 on: November 23, 2005, 07:54:23 am
I believe you (although you are completely mad for attempting such a piece). Please, inform: how do you choose your pallete? Do you have a preset pallete or...
I think one of the reasons it looks color reduced is that freaky pallete...
Anyway, good luck and might I suggest, just as practice, some more conventional pixel art so that we can see that you at least have the ability to take on such a large piece in detail? Ya' know...something...smaller?

Offline Ryumaru

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Re: ff vincent(warning HUGE image)

Reply #14 on: November 23, 2005, 02:51:17 pm
lol, ill show you some more conventional pieces. but the pallette itself isnt that crazy its got shades and highlights of colors that things such as his jacket and his hair would use. its just that i have shades of red and grey in his skin, pink in the metal and other things like that that make it seem wacky.

Offline Bo

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Re: ff vincent(warning HUGE image)

Reply #15 on: November 23, 2005, 03:15:10 pm
heh, mixing pink, blue and red like you did in the hair is crazy! :P
turning out realy good.
could you post the image that got its thread locked here so we could see it?

Offline Ryumaru

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Re: ff vincent(warning HUGE image)

Reply #16 on: November 23, 2005, 03:31:39 pm
im a little lazy, but heres the topic its in:
http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=487.0
also i have some more images to show

and i have a more final version of this but its on my laptop, i did that thing were you pixel it in black and white to get the shading right but how whould you go about coloring it?
[/img]
« Last Edit: November 23, 2005, 03:49:09 pm by Ryumaru »

Offline Gil

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Re: ff vincent(warning HUGE image)

Reply #17 on: November 23, 2005, 04:20:27 pm
Well, you haven't convinced me at all, but you made me doubt it, so that's in your favor. Anyway, those new pieces you posted are ace, so I'm going to shut my trap and leave this thread ;)

Sorry if I caused any inconvenience...

Offline Ryumaru

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Re: ff vincent(warning HUGE image)

Reply #18 on: November 23, 2005, 04:33:02 pm
well the only thing causing me inconvienence is people still thinking that its not pixeled.

Offline Kazuya Mochu

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Re: ff vincent(warning HUGE image)

Reply #19 on: November 23, 2005, 05:00:55 pm
we have no reason to think other wize. for all I know you could just reduce the colors down to 2 and say " this is my line art"

it's not about the steps. but why do you go and put thoes really weird tones for shading. I meen, look at this:

why would you put grey in flesh tones? artistic option? why isn't it any where else?
the think is, as far as I know, and I have done automatic color reduction, to optimize images for the web and so, and I know how a computer acts if you give it a pallet, and have him reduce using dither, error difusion, or just no dithering at all.

I'm not going to say this isn't. but if this is automatic color reduction, and sometime in the future you decide to produce your own work, people are going to realise it, and in the end, you will only fool your self.
belive me, you are not the first to try something like this.

if not, if this is really yours, I'd drop the weird antialiasing, it confuses people!

really, I hope you make up your mind.

Kaz
Image size doesn't matter! It's what you do with your pixels that counts!

Offline Ryumaru

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Re: ff vincent(warning HUGE image)

Reply #20 on: November 23, 2005, 05:29:44 pm
i really dont know what i have to do to prove it to you people , and if i drop the grey aa that would be like saying"hey ptoing, stop that dithering" or something to that effect. also the grey aa is in the metal, his head band and will be in his hair also. if theres any way of making a reduction look more pixeled i probably dont know it. i dont know how you can give it a pallette or error difusion(sounds like a foreighn language to me). as ive said before if there is ANY WAY AT ALL to prove ive done this, then pm me and ill be sure to do my best to clear it up for you.

Offline Conzeit

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Re: ff vincent(warning HUGE image)

Reply #21 on: November 23, 2005, 05:49:11 pm
well, I figure you're just trying to take us all in a ride, or you just are determined to make very very poor artistic choices.

Eitherway I think you're just putting yourself in a very uncomfortable situation for participating in this forum, because as long as you do this you wont be trusted.

I understand the idea of using contrasting colors to create appeal, hell, Helm who's been the main "contender" of sorts you've had belives in that too. But just using it as if it were a common midtone doesnt work,you need to keep that technique only to use it where it'll actually create an appealing effect, the way you're using it right now just makes your stuff look dirty.

your stuff has a lot of gradients, granted not mindless cilindrical/radial gradients, but you do have a progression from dark to light going on in your shaedes, only you break it up in the middle with a wack color, you say this is a shocking effect, I agree...that doesnt make it good, it just builds up to a cerain appeal, and then breaks it for no reason, that is not appealing, that is frustrating, like a game with a great plot and no ending.

you argue this is your artistic choice and whatnot, well....I dont see anyone that apreciates it, because it just isnt a new idea, it's an old idea we're all familiar with used in one of the poorest ways posible. That is not the case with Ptoing who has come to build a consistant aesthetic with some slightly dissident techniques that do have an appeal of their own.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2005, 05:55:12 pm by Camus »

Offline Dogmeat

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Re: ff vincent(warning HUGE image)

Reply #22 on: November 23, 2005, 05:58:33 pm
dude, do you really need a huge ugly banner for a siggy? it got annoying after my finger broke off from trying to scroll down the page.
Daisuke Nagano Yokoyama

Offline Skipper

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Re: ff vincent(warning HUGE image)

Reply #23 on: November 23, 2005, 05:59:44 pm
Yea, I'm just not buying that this is hand pixelled.  But I'm just a purist.

Offline Ryumaru

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Re: ff vincent(warning HUGE image)

Reply #24 on: November 23, 2005, 06:01:39 pm
i wasnt comparing my work to ptoings, we all know hes much more skilled than i am. what i was saying is that, he doesnt use those dithers because other people like it, but because he likes to, and that he has his own reasons(if im putting words into his mouth that he doesnt agree in then he can say so). but let me ask you this, if no one thinks of this as a reduced cg(which it isnt) then would you still think of it as a cg?, helm already knows that this was totally pixeled or he would have had this topic locked like my last one. also plz stop saying that it is reduced and it is a cg and plz start saying ways on how i can prove that to be wrong.
oh and to dogmeat, sorry about that. i took away the banner.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2005, 06:04:14 pm by Ryumaru »

Offline Helm

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Re: ff vincent(warning HUGE image)

Reply #25 on: November 23, 2005, 08:21:34 pm
No actually, further discussion about how this is CG or not, is not encouraged in this thread. Or you trying to prove that it is. You've 'proven' ( in that there's no point to take this further ) it to the right people ( moderators ). So, if some users feel this is unworthy to comment on or critique 'cause they don't buy that it's pixel art ( I am not one of those ) , or they don't think this will benefit from pixel-art critique, then they can feel free to go to the next thread.

facts:

*this is gosh-darned huge, so there's little point to pixel it besides based on personal whims

*pixel-art critique CAN be applied to this. You've already gotten palette theory critique, dithering critique and the like from Camus. I thoroughly second his post by the way, so if it's critique that you wanted, there you go! Work on your errors.

*huge, variant width black lineart isn't a very good base for pixel art, usually. Try something smaller with less outlines, or even no outlines besides light and volume faked ones. Like your smaller sprite

*don't post more than one piece of art on a thread as it is usually suggested. This is a critique board, not a gallery showcase. Now, I know this has been derailed into 'is this CG? Prove that it isn't CG!' but it's gone on long enough, you've made your case, whoever wants to know and have an opinion, they do. Let's move on to critique. And for critique, one sprite or piece at a time, usually.

« Last Edit: November 23, 2005, 08:44:50 pm by Helm »

Offline ptoing

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Re: ff vincent(warning HUGE image)

Reply #26 on: November 23, 2005, 08:35:36 pm
Ok, since i was namedropped i will have to say what i think about it. First of: People, calm down.

Now having that out of the way, yes, I do what I think looks nice, but I still take into concern what others say to a certain degree, there have been times where someone said something and i disagreed and left it as it was. You can never please everyone, but in general you should be open for critique. If a lot people say that something looks off, strange or not pleasant you might wanna think about it.

I have to agree with the major consensus here that that grays do not add anything in this case. Greys can be awesome as buffershades (as seen in good C64 art), but yours is too agressive and does not blend well. Looking at your second picture and you writing something about working on a laptop made me draw a assumption. It might be the monitor you work on. The outline of the 2nd picture does not work imo, the red is too saturated and looks very off esp. against the green of the hairs. I worked on laptops a few times and LCD screens tend to fuck up colours. I yet have to see the LCD screen the C64 palette looks good on.

So you might have done these pictures on a laptop where it looked fine, but on a CRT monitor you get different saturation and hues on almost all colours. If you have not consider looking at your stuff on a CRT monitor .

If this assumption is not right and you worked on a CRT as well as a LCD i have to say that the choices of colours are quite gash in some parts. That darker skincolour surrounding the highlight on vincent's cheek does not look very nice either imho.

Anyway, I hope that you succeed in finishing these pieces and try to take what people say into account a bit more.

All you others, stop with the accusing unless you have proper evidence. I found a picture on the net which this is obviously based on, but it is not reduced but eyeballed. the outlines do not match up as they would in a trace or colourreduced piece.


That said, Vincents ear needs to be quite a tad bigger.

Cheers
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Helm

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Re: ff vincent(warning HUGE image)

Reply #27 on: November 23, 2005, 08:49:04 pm
still, please post refrences of your work when used. This almost ALWAYS turns ugly, even if as in this case, not much tracing was involved. Better to know up-front, than to have google image search supersleuth it

Offline Bo

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Re: ff vincent(warning HUGE image)

Reply #28 on: November 23, 2005, 09:00:55 pm
people said i was crazy to.
but just look at me now. its not i who am crazy, it is i who are mad, muahahahahahaha!



i absolutely love this one. maybe darken the outline color abit but dont listen to me :)

Offline Ryumaru

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Re: ff vincent(warning HUGE image)

Reply #29 on: November 23, 2005, 09:17:07 pm
thanks ptoing, i guess ill try and fix it. im just going to have to find a way of doing it without adding colors to the pallette(thats why there there in the first place) and ill post references next time. btw the lineart was not traced from that picture, especially since things prolly dont match up, but i drew it and scanned it in(my scanner makes things HUGE) and then made monochrome in gg. oh, thanks bo and i probably will fix the lines on that because the outline color was going to be a shade of his red but feeling like the (bad) color conservest i am i just made it the outline. thanks for all your comments everybody and i will(try) to work on that color thing.