AuthorTopic: [WIP] Grass Tiles  (Read 9603 times)

Offline zyndikate

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Re: [WIP] Grass Tiles

Reply #10 on: November 02, 2007, 08:35:42 pm
What baccaman said(or I think he said), try to bring the colors closer in value.
I didnt remove any of the colors from you tile, but I could probably remove the darker there - but it was just an example :)

Offline ndchristie

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Re: [WIP] Grass Tiles

Reply #11 on: November 02, 2007, 10:29:54 pm
you're still rendering the grass as individual forms!  you CANT think about it this way and expect to get a working background tile.  You need to think of the tile as one part of an enormous whole, NOT a whole made up of many parts!
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Offline Rargh!

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Re: [WIP] Grass Tiles

Reply #12 on: November 03, 2007, 11:46:19 am

Hey Adarias: what does that mean? Is there a "good practice" process that Gromthi's not following? Obviously, it's something that Zyndicate is nailing in this thread (http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=5291.0), but maybe it's something that Gromthi (and I'm sure quite a few posters who come through here) is unaware of...

It'd be interesting to know how someone in the industry approaches creating a new tileset...  :y:

Offline Gromthi

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Re: [WIP] Grass Tiles

Reply #13 on: November 03, 2007, 12:29:10 pm
So contrasty is just that ^^
Very good explanation, thanks !

Adarias : I understand what you mean, but i cant see how to do so. You mean i should make all tiles differents from the others ? ( just few differences ) so that each tiles is one part of a whole ?

PS : Sorry if sometimes I have some difficulty to understand, but i am french and my english is not perfect  :yell:

Offline zyndikate

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Re: [WIP] Grass Tiles

Reply #14 on: November 03, 2007, 02:04:27 pm
Im not going to say that I know exacly what Adarias mean, but I think he could mean that it doesnt tile that well - It looks like several tiles instead of one big. You dont want a pattern that reveals it self and take attention, then you will see its tiled - this is my limited experience.

Also, my limited experience think that: if you manage to place the pixels so they dont start or end at the same horizontal or vertical line it looks random enough, the worst thing for me was when I got two straws at the same length or width - I think its better to have them an uneven number if you really have to have them.

Ill try to demonstrate with a picture soon.

edit:

(tile it up even bigger for it to really show)
There is a noticable pattern going on up in the tile, while there are other problems for me this is the biggest. But if you made all the grass tangenting and such it wouldnt be noticable - so its more or less about contrast(not in color, but in shape and placement) You dont want any eye-catchet. with your latest there isnt any of these since its from the same straws - but as mentioned by Adarias, theyre working in groups of and not as a whole, lose the value contrast or try to remove the outlines. Just my experience - and it doesnt really have to do anything with your current grass tile, but something you could have in mind and experiment with ourself. :)
« Last Edit: November 03, 2007, 02:56:59 pm by zyndikate »

Offline ndchristie

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Re: [WIP] Grass Tiles

Reply #15 on: November 03, 2007, 02:28:44 pm
actually, while each of those interpretations are valid points, i mean something entirely different:

you are rendering each piece of grass as though it is an object.

it is not.

it is a detail on the tile.

the tile is a detail in the grass.

the grass is a region of the ground.

the ground is one object.

ONE CHARACTER OR LANDMARK is as important as the ENTIRE GROUND.  If the ground is like a character, then the grass is like his shirt, a tile like his sleeve, and the tile a single button.  You have to render it as such or your background will never work well.  zyndikate does have this pretty much down pat in his grass because he is rendering for a field, not individual blades of grass, although there is a slight issue in his where the dirt tiles and the grass tiles are fighting each other in a way that they shouldn't.  Senad's tile is also great for the same reasons.


if you aren't sure how to go about reducing importance, here's a tip:

contours:  really, the ground shoudn't create it's own strong contours.  it's the ground!  it's bounds by itself are infinite, and will be defined for practical purposes only by the objects that breaks its continuity.  Contours and outlines should be saved just for objects.  By otlining every piece of grass, you are telling the player that every blade of grass is as important as his character.

local contrast: local contrast defines importance.  The faster something changes from light to dark, gray to color, or hue across the color wheel, the more important it is.  That's why, for the most part, outlines and strong contrast should define characters and not be used in a single tile.  The entire background might (might!) have as much total contrast as a character (and usually doesn't!), but an individual ground tile should still be fairly slow.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2007, 02:39:49 pm by Adarias »
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Offline Gromthi

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Re: [WIP] Grass Tiles

Reply #16 on: November 03, 2007, 02:55:51 pm
Understood !

Think i got it better, cause as you tell me, when i drop object ( a bushberry ) on my new ground, it DON'T 4seem's like ground is as important as the object ^^

My "old" ground with object :



My new one :



My new one WITH an object on it :



« Last Edit: November 03, 2007, 03:00:18 pm by Gromthi »

Offline zyndikate

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Re: [WIP] Grass Tiles

Reply #17 on: November 03, 2007, 03:00:02 pm
A short hihack, sorry!
Adarias - Please do tell about my grass and ground issues, why dont you mention them in my WIP thread? :)
Im trying to improve it so any suggestions are welcome! In my thread.

Offline baccaman21

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Re: [WIP] Grass Tiles

Reply #18 on: November 03, 2007, 03:03:42 pm
I thought he was on about tessalation...?

and that what you're failing to do is work with this in mind... the tile you've created in isometric, but in reality this angle is irrellivant as you should consider the whole as a flood filled texture... (the iso angle is relevant obviously but it's less so as the iso 2:1 step ratio is defined by other elements of the entire tile set)

so... what to do?

Scrap playing around with a single tile (in iso) and try tesselating the grass tile in a bid to reduce any obvious repetitions over a large area... (to re-iterate what adarias said in the post before his last one)

I've had a search around the pixelation site and I can't find much in the way of a tutorial for tesselating tiles...? weird...

(great last post adarias... really well put)
« Last Edit: November 03, 2007, 03:09:02 pm by baccaman21 »
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Offline Sharm

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Re: [WIP] Grass Tiles

Reply #19 on: November 03, 2007, 03:12:07 pm
I like the new tile better, but the contrast is probably still too high.  As for your object, most of your problems with it will go away if you pick a light source and shade accordingly.  Right now it blends into the grass because it has the same shading as the grass.  Here's a quick and dirty edit.