[WIP]RPG tileset

[zyndikate]

Hi!
First post, and its more or less my first pixelart too.. I bought Pro motion 2days ago and have been playing around some. I used to enjoy pixeling on my amiga500 back then, but I was young and crappy.
I read up some topics and Im ofcourse very impressed by the skills and knowledge thats arounds here, So I decided to post my tileset.
"Ohno! not another RPG-tileset!"


Personaly I think its kinda lame somehow, the grass I really seem to fail at - Any suggestions or tips, I tried many diffrent with variations.?
Any critique or suggestions are welcome and appreciated, I have alot to learn!

EDIT -- last update for now:

[philipptr]

Welcome
Your work already seems to be very advanced, so I can't give much critique. The tiles tile very well, though the smaller ones are lightly repetative when tiled in big areas, but actually thats part of the stylistic choice about how many details you want to add. The upper trunk fits the style of the ground tiles better imho.
About the secondary lightsource: I think I wouldnt fill such a big part of the sprites with a light of that colour if the theme is a daylight scene. I somehow associate the violet more with a misterious, cave-style light than with a normal daylight scene. I think it might work quite well if you added another darker brown tone where your darker violet is at the moment too have a smaller area where the secondary lightsource affects the object more than the primary. And maybe add 1 or 2 tones to the violet ramp to be able to add more details in that area as you did in the front.

[pkmays]

Congratulations on your purchase. :^)) The grass and road tiles are excellent, very nice color choices.

Your trees lack a nice dark color to give them a healthy range of contrast. You need a dark green or purple to add some extra depth to the darks. Also, if you are devoting such a huge portion of the objects into that purple, you might add a lighter shade of purple or two to give them more detail. That, or make the reflected light more subtle.

Regardless, this is some top notch stuff.

[baccaman21]

there's more to this than meets the eye...?

First post - yet strangley looks like pro work...

"more or less my first pixelart too..." - yeah right, who you trying to kid?

Either you're pro trying to take the p155 or you're extremely talented and natural born pixel pusher...

There's some indications in there of more than 'just starting pixeling' - the tesselation on the tiles for one is excellent, the form on the tree is excellent, the choices of where you've placed pixels is very good, the secondary hilight on the tree is quite well done... and you choice of pallette is nice...

This is not amateur work by any stretch... and certainly not n00b territory...

So come on mr first post... who are you really?
 

[Rargh!]

Being almost the definition of a noob pixeller myself, I have to agree with Bacca...

The shading on just the light side of your trees alone is extremely well done. Too well done. You have techniques going on there I don't even know the names of yet. 

But if this is your first pixel art work... then know that I am very, very jealous!   

[zyndikate]

First of all, thanks for the suggestions!

Ok, now I feel a little embarrassed talking about myself.

I never said I was new to art, Im actually studying it and love it.
Like I said, maybe in a somewhat toned-down, I used to pixel when I was a kid (10-11 years old). Me and my cousin used to copy pixels from amiga games - drawing it down on a crossed paper, So Im familiar with dittering (just basic though) and such. Back then I knew nothing about the tools of art like color theory, form, perspective..

Now, 10 years later I  have taken up my art interests and Im studying it atm for the second year..
Anyway - Im not trying to trick people or anything, I guess I was a little shy or affraid if anything - Im honestly here to learn pixel! I have seen stuff from people like Helm who really maximize the pallete, reuse colors in an impressiv way and really know how to use good colors.
So teach me guys
If anyone was offended or anything, then Im sorry for that, I was not trying to be an ass or anything.

philipptr: About the lightning color, choice.. Its my favorite colors - yellow and purple. I know sword of mana uses it too, and I really like that art
But I agree with you, its not "really" an outdoor color, the shadows would probably be blue from the sky.


Anyway - here is my second wip. I refined the three and worked some on its forms, tryied to work on the "RPG"-perspective, added some depth. Do you think its getting better with the new colors? Any tips in the pallete, color use? Please do be critical, Im here to learn.

[baccaman21]

ah... that's better... a bit of background info always helps... and no offense caused in the slightest... I was just a bit curious cos your work displays some fine understanding already of the medium. Things make total sense now.

I'm loving this tree, very - er - Pans Labyrinth.

If I were to crit anything I'd say that you need to be a little more diligent with the placement of pixels on the grass tiles, they feel a little too haphazard for me, particularly the lowest tile on the left, the lightest wisps of grass are a little too simple and scratchy (if that makes sense) it's like you've randomly scribbled on the tile without much thought... I think they also need a bit of blending too, so the base of the wisp merges with the floor, and the bit that sticks out is brighter - a bit of AA wouldn't go amiss here.

nice work though... speshly for a first post...

welcome to pixelation

[zyndikate]

Thank for the suggestions!
I understand what you mean with the grass, I havent really got down to refining them, im still trying to decide which "style" of them I want, Atm im liking the second from top-left for its simplicity which I think is good in the kind of rpg im thinking of (*of mana, Actionbattlesystem) Since it will keep the screen kinda clean.. Any who have any thoughts on that or experience?

Mostly worked on the threes, Getting the perspctive, Probably doesnt show but I worked 3h now on them

Also started to work the road tiles some, I tried to punch them back some so they are under the grass, but I dunno so far. Played around with fading the grass out on them. And some sucky flowers

anyway, bed time - thats why I posted.. Hope its ok to update the progress often for critique..

[zyndikate]

Todays work, auto-tiling of floor and thicker grass.. I decided to go with this grass - Probably could use AA?
Also started a new three and some color adjustments.
The shadows will be transparent in RPGmaker.
Suggestions, c&c?

[baccaman21]

yum...

when are you gonna bite the bullet and work the tree canopy up?

This is really nice work.

[zyndikate]

I did a little mockupish in rpgmaker this time, with uninspired mapping due to late hour , I would like comments on the whole - does it read right? the depth and such. All other comments are ofcourse also welcome, c&c.
I realise that there is some cleanup on the pieces too.

Anyone who got any suggestions to do next? probably some hillcorners would be in place

[Stefano]

First of all: wow. Pretty nice piece you got there.
Second, C&C: IMO the stone path is too contrasted and dark. Try to lower the difference between the darkest and lightest tones (and save a few colors in the process!), and lighten the whole color ramp to push it back to the grass plane. Another thing: the tree in the bottom left seems to be sick, puking or something of the sort. I think the composition would look better if you'd just replace if with a bush or a variation of your first tree (a little sprout maybe?).

Congrats, man. That's awesome work.
-Stefano

Post EDIT:

Since I got rid of the variation floor tile with shiny pebbles, I've added a sketchy grass chunk to replace it.
And sorry about the puking tree. I just couldn't resist it!

[baccaman21]

Fantastic stuff.


Personally - I've never liked square edged tiles like you have... I understand it's a stylistic choice but one that I think is a legacy of limited characters for mapping RPG genre games back in the day... these days we have more scope to ruffle those edges up and create something a little less 'tiley' - So, why not try having multiple 'straight', outside and inside corner tiles to try and break it up a bit...

Like this (excuse the mess it was really quick edit) :-


It's like stippliing... but with texture.

[fil_razorback]

Wonderful set, are you going to make a game out of it ?
It reminds me a lot of Magical Vacation ( http://xs220.xs.to/xs220/07441/Forest1.png ), but much bigger

Keep it up (no crits from me, obviously) =)

[zyndikate]

Thanks guys! great crit and I agree on all points - for the moment! !

Yea, variation in the tiles and better melthing together - no question about it. Also adding curves in the corner like you hinted. Will get to it tonight!

Ill try to push the tiles to the grass, but Ill probably keep the highlight for form.. But then again I might not - yours seems like a better stylistic choice and it fits the grass. We'll see

Dont think so much of the composition, it was just a test to having everything in the same screen to get the big picture - Just tiles can dont tell the whole thruth, IMO. The puking three - I think I can find use if it in map-making later, as variation - but Ill maybe tone it down a little, not so extreme gesture.

fil_razorback .. They indeed are inspired from that tileset, It was one of those I had in my "tilesets" directory where I looked for inspiration.. I honestly though it were something like *of mana though.

Im starting to get bored of that boxy tree, see if I can add a little flavor and gesture to it

To be continued - keep the crit coming guys

[Feron]

you could have the trunk without leaves aswell, for more variation...

nice stuff

[baccaman21]

Im starting to get bored of that boxy tree, see if I can add a little flavor and gesture to it

If you getting bored  with it - leave it... give it some space and move on, come back to it later if need be... it looks fine as is.

Move on to something else, it's screaming out for some kind of boulder, or rock... or megalith of some kind... maybe with some kind of tribal carving on it...?

like this
or this

[zyndikate]

Thanks for the comments.
Made cliff-side and some dirt path. The autotiles needs tweaking (stone, grass, cliff), the edges should be more or less goin diagonal.
I also played with the colors - I cant stop doing that.

Dont mind the composition, I let the whole cliff show to show all sides of it - This is just for showing.

Next I think will be those rocks and such - after the autotiles tweaking.
c&c still appreciated!

[baccaman21]

double yum...

you've got issues with the cliff shadow (at the back) it needs to start half way down the back face so that it's jutting up, and not lying down...

love the new pallette (I'm a sucker for yellow highs and purple lows)

megaliths now?

[Rargh!]

Wow. Bacca's really been pushing you in some awesome directions.

What I really like about this, however, is how--utilising the same art you've been working on--you could easily turn your daytime beauty...



and a couple of levels later, have the player move into an area that's dark and foreboding, just by removing the foliage and changing the palette.



Love these stumps.

Out of interest, Bacca (others?), is that good shadowing on the dark side of the foliage? I'm reading the drop from greens to deeper purples as a bit sudden, despite the smattering of green leaves there. I'm looking at the trunks and they retain a lighter shade.

Great stuff Zyndicate. 

[baccaman21]

Out of interest, Bacca (others?), is that good shadowing on the dark side of the foliage? I'm reading the drop from greens to deeper purples as a bit sudden, despite the smattering of green leaves there. I'm looking at the trunks and they retain a lighter shade.

yeah... you might have a point there Rargh. Maybe it could do with an extra shade or 2 to make the blend flow a bit better... but then again, it could be a pallette issue too so perhaps a tinker with the pallette may just be all it needs.

btw - the term 'good' in this context is highly subjective. I'm a sucker for secondary hilights and like I said before the purple in shadows and yellow in hilights so I'm bound to say it's good cos this fits right on with my asthetic... but others may not be so kind...

Bottom line for me is that this work is highly presentable and commercial to boot...

[rabidbaboy]

Got nothing much to say except those are looking very pimpin.

And that the shadows are giving off a feel of different lightsources, especially on the cliff and that thin tree.

[zyndikate]

Thanks for the comments!
baccaman - Do you mean that cliff is like "leaning" and not going straight down on the back? I have that one too in my tileset but I though, then, that it read bad and merged with the other grass.. But now, after sleep and some fresher eyes, I think I agree with you.

About the shadow - Yes, this is something I had a little problem with, Ill try to rework it - If anyone have any ideas or paintovers for pointer it would be cool.

rabidbadboy - Do you mean diffrent directions or color? I think you mean there is a diffrence location of the main lightsource(yellow, top left), do you get the feeling from the castshadows? I couldnt do that good shadow on the big three since it would take up so many tiles - Tell me if this is what you mean, because I think Im agreeing its too obvious.

baccaman, yes megaliths or ruins next - after some tweaking

[ejay]

Looks great so far.
The foliage looks too contrasted and saturated compared to everything else, And I agree with Rargh about the transition to purple being too abrupt, I think it flattens it.
I also feel that the cliff side needs more contrast - it's currently using approximately the same range of values as in the ground surface, while it should probably have at least the same range as the tree trunks do . And as for the cliff shadow- it just needs to extend more to the right, to duplicate the 45-ish degrees angle used on the trees.
I love the natural grass borders, much better than the square ones In my opinion!

[zyndikate]

latest, I had all suggestions in mind.
Realise that the cliffside looks kinda wierd when you put something close to it like that.
Maybe I should add another shade to the treecrown? or do you think this is working?
I tried be consistent in contrast between vertical objects against the flat ground, where the objects have a little more contrast.
Ejay, (who btw have gave me suggestions and helped me aswell, he's more or less like my mentor ) Do you think the tree crown is still to contrasty and saturated.. In theory the crown is about the same saturation as the rest.

The stones and megalith'ish I like, good a little Simon the sorcerer1 look I think
I should probably leave out the shadows on the flowers.

Did I forget something?
What next? water?.. Maybe I should add some sort of ramp up the cliff.

Rargh! - yea, I think they would be cool for a swamp or something with a little pallette adjustment - a shame to waste them by not using them
Keep them coming!

[Rargh!]

Oh, wow... Diggin' the stones.  Flowers are cool, too.

Not too sure about the style of the cliff yet (it seems not to match the rest). But awesome edit. Keep it going... 

[Dusty]

I personally think you should ditch the shadows all together, especially on the cliffs. The tree's, it wasn't so bad, but I never thought they looked right, and maybe more traditional shadow directly under the tree.

[zyndikate]

Yea, theyre not close to "right", theyre somewhat adjusted to be practical in the editor, otherwise they would be bigass shadows and you only have 3 layers. Classic shadows, wouldnt they look more wierd? or maybe Im think wrong, do you have any picture with them? I think I understand what youre getting at, do you think the wierdness is in the angle or size of them, or just out of style?
Can it be its the wierd perspective of the upperside of the cliff thats causing it?

What do others think? Should I remove the shadows? Personaly I think, right now, that they add a little dynamic.

edit: I noticed I missed a shadow tile on the bottom-right megalith.

[Dusty]

Well it's not about being right, it's about looking right. Traditionally, shadows were drawn directly under the tree, no matter the light source. Sure, it was weird in a technical sense, but it's the way it was done, so no one really pays attention to it.
What I think really kills the cliff shadows is the fact that you're working with such an odd angle(which I've just seen you have mentioned), and all kinds of messages are being sent to the viewers(or at least me, personally).
For reference, take a look at these trees in the top left:
http://wiimedia.ign.com/wii/image/article/773/773832/vc-monday-3192007-20070319003135882.jpg

[Cow]

I think the shadows look good and getting rid of them would be to it's detriment.

And Dusty, tradition is not the only way to go. You seem to be trying to impose it on him because it's the status quo, and that's lame imo [rhymed for extra effect].

[Dusty]

I'm not telling him to do it because it's traditional, I'm telling him to do it because it doesn't look right the way it is now. He asked what I meant by traditional(and asked if it'd look weird), so I answered that it wouldn't, because it has grew on people.

[DavidCarney]

I'm not telling him to do it because it's traditional, I'm telling him to do it because it doesn't look right the way it is now. He asked what I meant by traditional(and asked if it'd look weird), so I answered that it wouldn't, because it has grew on people.

What basis do you have to say it's grown on people in general?  It kinda sounds like a personal preference to me.

I, for one, love the way you are doing the shadows on all the stuff, the rocks look top notch, and every is looking very (as Baccaman said) commercial.

The trees look a bit odd to me, because unlike anywhere else on the trees, there is a bar without any leaf shading on the purple side.  Add shading to that and it might flow better all the way around it.

The shadows on the flowers do seem a bit too large, and grabs the attention more than you want it.


Awesome job all around though!  Top notch stuff.

[Dusty]

Meh... I wasn't saying to go with traditional shadows because it's grown on everyone, but just because it seems like a logical alternative... I was merely stating that traditional shadows aren't technically correct, but pass because they were used because of limitations and that even today they're 'okay' because nearly everyone uses them. I said that because he asked about the weirdness of a shadow that isn't 'right'.

Again, my reason for my suggestion of changing the shadows has nothing to do with me preferring traditional pixel shadows over his, but just that I don't think his are really working out, and I suggested an alternative--which was the traditional shadows.

His cliff shadows just look really, really weird to me, mainly because of the perspective he has chosen, it's just boggling to look at as it confuses me.

[zyndikate]

I appreciate your comments

I understand what youre getting at, but you said its mainly the cliffshadow thats wierd - which would be better to maybe just fix its perspective. What Im really interested in _why_ it looks wierd, and thats not because I dont care any of your comments, but I want to know why I would change it since, right now, it doesnt click for me.
Putting the shadow right under the threes might look odd because of its kinda heavy lit from the top-left angle and there would be a light part in the shadows. The screenshot you showed had the tree-trunk more or less all in shadow. But yea, I could make them shorter and more under the right side if the tree, and not that reaching out shadow. Ill come back on this later tonight.
But keep discuss - hopefully something good will come out of it

[basara]

I am not sure if your goal was to make the cliff shaped like the top trapezoid and to my eyes it looks like that. :[] Maybe if it that wasnt what you intended and I am not wrong in my interpretation this could help with the perspective :P

Another thing that is looking a bit weird to me is the shadow being drawn on top of that boulder close to the cliff:

To my eyes the left one makes the rocks look like painted on the floor.

It would be a honour if any of this suggestions helped you :)

[zyndikate]

The screenshot is made in RPGmaker XP, I just put together something for showing the tiles "in action" as they are, but yes - it looks wierd.

The cliffs perspective I think I answered somewhere up there, I added the upper-corner to make the edge read better against the grass, Ill show the other version tonight, which is the more "correct" perspective one.
Stay tuned

[zyndikate]

Just a tileset screen today(sorry for the size), since Im tired. Added stairs, started some water.
Here is the edited cliff. Also some small changes like in the treecrown, better AA on the cliffs. Sharpened the rocks a little - But didnt do it that much.

[jedzed]

I'm not one to give crit's but i think the tree leaves are way too dark for the grass, it stands out way too much it needs a little less contrast between the two.

but anyways keep up the good work, im loving the trickster styled pallete ^_^.

[zyndikate]

Worked on water, but Im not done yet - Added a bridge. Adjusted the trees, a little less contrasty and a little more washed out to match the grass better, as jedzed pointed out - as many of you did earlier. Ill keep tweaking it until it looks alright

The bidge will be a problem to make it read good without taking all the attention (I know it should have a shadow, havent added yet).
Suggestions?

[ndchristie]

ground stones and cliff stones dont seem to be from the same places, and the standing stones are very alien to the environment.  not necessarily a bad thing, just one to keep in mind.

somehow i feel like this is all too easy for you?  try to really push the envelope rather than just making the tiles that every rpg has ever had.

as far as the bridge, i say lighten and simplify for best results, you can imply bent and twisted lines without actually making them bent or twisted.

[Fingerfoods]

Go work in the industry... I want to play this on my DS.

[ndchristie]

heh, since you asked......

it's really jsut a palette issue that  makes the dirt and the grass fight each other rather than sitting on the same plane.  the dirt is established as being underneath the grass because it is so warm and the ground is warm with cool figures. 

heres an obnoxious MSPaint edit to show how they can be brought together by integrating green light and base to do a few things:



1 - reduce independence of dirt by lowering perceived saturation (complements interspersed = gray overall)
2 - incorporate into ground plane (by adding a cool light)
3 - maintain "heavy" atmosphere (by keeping a warm green base)

just a thought

[zyndikate]

Ok, thanks everyone for all the comments!
Ill consider this to be finnished for now, reason is I want to move on to another piece..
So here is the "end" result with a little weak mockup'ish capture:

[Akira]

It looks really washed out now with the darkest shade in the ground being replaced by the green. Overall i think the piece could use more contrast.

[TrevoriuS]

You did a very well job, a pity you don't expand it with buildings and all

[philipptr]

the boy seems out of place (especially his hair) but otherwise you did some great work and progress! (palette could be optimized a bit though )

[Stefano]

It looks really washed out now with the darkest shade in the ground being replaced by the green. Overall i think the piece could use more contrast.

It didn't before he added the boy...

Zyndikate,

IMO your should either reduce contrast/saturation on the boy or increase saturate/contrast on objects placed on the plane close to the "camera", to make them match.

[zyndikate]

Yea, I know he's out of place - I just threw him in before I "ended" it yesterday and wasnt that concerned of it - But ill tweak it today. Just for you guys ;P

[Helm]

[zyndikate]

I decided to take the boy down to the ground(probably overdid it ), the outwashed was a choice I made on the way - I never tried it before really, I always made saturated and contrasty pieces and this is somewhat new grounds for me.
This have to be the last, I almost spend another hour just adjusting the palette. I already done that enough hours for this peice.

[Froli]

Why did I miss this The sprites are great, but I really like what helm did there. A little adjustment in the gamma correction would make the colors vibrant. But I guess this is your stylistic choice 

[smiker]

suberb work in here. i also think it will look better adding a little contrast...

[dragonrc]

I did a quick color edit, it did bring up the color count by 20 but that's not the point.
The colors in your version are too much alike, it gives a misty look.
I brought up the contrast in this edit.

I hope this helps
Great job on this, I hope to see more