AuthorTopic: Chibi Fighter  (Read 13132 times)

Offline Andy Tran

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Chibi Fighter

on: October 14, 2007, 02:02:38 am
 This is my first chibi fighter sprite. 25 colors + 1 transparent. I did this for practice.

 

Offline Twinspiration

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Re: Chibi Fighter

Reply #1 on: October 14, 2007, 02:09:49 am
Even though it's supposed to be chibi and all, that eye is incredibly huge.

..Sabin?

Offline bengo

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Re: Chibi Fighter

Reply #2 on: October 14, 2007, 02:25:03 am
A lot of weeaboos(Another word for a person thats obsessed over anime) call it chibi, another word for 'super-deformed', its an art style, a bit related to anime.

25 colors, good god, thats alot especially for a small piece such as this, thats too much, there's just alot of other problems with the overall person, especially face structure. Okay, so I googled some chibis and here's the best I got:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/65/PocketFighterLargeRyu.gif
http://www.liquidcross.com/images/gaming/megaman/chibi-mm.gif
Now the main thing you're seeing here is that the face is the largest feature on the person, hands and feet are also pretty large. With the eyes and other things, they just don't look like anime eyes, the pupil on the eye is basically covering over 90% of the body, where it's chibi or not, so what I think you should do is look at some examples of eyes, face structures, etc. from here:
http://www.howtodrawmanga.com/tutorial.html
Other crits: Human skin isn't that shiny, the light source isn't really defined too well, a bit pillow-shadish in places, the way he's facing is weird, his face is looking right, along with his body, then the legs are facing left, not only that but his shoulders are uneven and its hard to tell where his hands are.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2007, 02:26:38 am by bengoshia »

Offline Andy Tran

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Re: Chibi Fighter

Reply #3 on: October 14, 2007, 05:37:56 am
A lot of weeaboos(Another word for a person thats obsessed over anime) call it chibi, another word for 'super-deformed', its an art style, a bit related to anime.

25 colors, good god, thats alot especially for a small piece such as this, thats too much, there's just alot of other problems with the overall person, especially face structure. Okay, so I googled some chibis and here's the best I got:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/65/PocketFighterLargeRyu.gif
http://www.liquidcross.com/images/gaming/megaman/chibi-mm.gif
Now the main thing you're seeing here is that the face is the largest feature on the person, hands and feet are also pretty large. With the eyes and other things, they just don't look like anime eyes, the pupil on the eye is basically covering over 90% of the body, where it's chibi or not, so what I think you should do is look at some examples of eyes, face structures, etc. from here:
http://www.howtodrawmanga.com/tutorial.html
Other crits: Human skin isn't that shiny, the light source isn't really defined too well, a bit pillow-shadish in places, the way he's facing is weird, his face is looking right, along with his body, then the legs are facing left, not only that but his shoulders are uneven and its hard to tell where his hands are.

 Thanks for the advice. I didn't really intend him to be an anime chibi. This was more of an original design. I'll work on the skin.

Offline bengo

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Re: Chibi Fighter

Reply #4 on: October 14, 2007, 05:44:17 am
So you're not gonna fix up his stance, his face, or anything now because its a 'original design'? Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is how I'm interpreting it.

Offline Andy Tran

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Re: Chibi Fighter

Reply #5 on: October 14, 2007, 11:10:12 pm
Just his face a bit. I already know how to draw anime a long time ago from that How to Draw Manga site hehe. But thanks. Check out the books, they are great. I own 9 books of it and they are all very helpful in applying it to pixel art.

Offline AdamAtomic

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Re: Chibi Fighter

Reply #6 on: October 14, 2007, 11:22:10 pm
andy, this is very bad work.  I can't tell what is going on with his body at all, his face is a total mess, the eye is really bizarrely shaped and shaded.  Regardless of whatever "original style" you are going for, the end result is unappealing and unattractive.  I can not give any more advice except for the basics: form, posture, basic shading.  You have major problems at the lineart, lighting, color selection, and polish levels.  If it sounds like I'm being extra-harsh, it's because you seem to be pretty well set in your ways, and like most of your threads you will work on the polish level only, rather than having the guts to tackle the fundamental problems that are crippling your work.  If that is the case, then it certainly can't hurt for me to go a little overboard in the hopes that you will wake up and see your work with fresh eyes!!

Offline Andy Tran

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Re: Chibi Fighter

Reply #7 on: October 15, 2007, 01:28:20 am
andy, this is very bad work.  I can't tell what is going on with his body at all, his face is a total mess, the eye is really bizarrely shaped and shaded.  Regardless of whatever "original style" you are going for, the end result is unappealing and unattractive.  I can not give any more advice except for the basics: form, posture, basic shading.  You have major problems at the lineart, lighting, color selection, and polish levels.  If it sounds like I'm being extra-harsh, it's because you seem to be pretty well set in your ways, and like most of your threads you will work on the polish level only, rather than having the guts to tackle the fundamental problems that are crippling your work.  If that is the case, then it certainly can't hurt for me to go a little overboard in the hopes that you will wake up and see your work with fresh eyes!!

 I don't really get what he's saying either, but I'm gonna stick with my style. It's a first piece on chibis if you didn't read. It looks pretty wack at first try. I'm still working on them.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2007, 01:34:51 am by Andy Tran »

Offline bengo

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Re: Chibi Fighter

Reply #8 on: October 15, 2007, 01:55:49 am
Andy, how do you not get what he's saying? He said it as bluntly as humanly possible, he's saying it sucks and you don't seem to care at all, that you're content with this and the only way to fix this is if you go out of your comfort zone and you start taking critiques seriously. You've been here for over two years and as I'm looking through your posts, I'm not seeing that much of a difference in quality from your old work to your new. Yes, it is a piece in the chibi style, but its still pretty terrible even in terms of the chibi style, so using this as an excuse just doesn't work. This 'your own style' crap is really just a crutch, you're not helping yourself by limiting your options.  Using the 'first try' thing doesn't really work either, since the chibi style is easier than doing normal anime or realistic art(You're just making some parts enlarged and some parts shortened), the guy in your sig is a chibi. Adam, what I personally think you need to do is actually go life draw, do lots of it and read up on some Andrew Loomis books. Andy, I want you to start improving but the only way you're going to do this is if you actually take initiative and start working on getting rid of your flaws.

Offline Andy Tran

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Re: Chibi Fighter

Reply #9 on: October 15, 2007, 03:00:18 am


 I only changed the skin tones and lineart a bit. Added an anime style eye to him. Lightened his clothes. I don't mean to be rude, but critiques are "useless" sometimes. If some of what are said are good and helpful, then I just take it and apply it.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2007, 03:02:23 am by Andy Tran »

Offline Helm

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Re: Chibi Fighter

Reply #10 on: October 15, 2007, 03:04:42 am
The critique you've gotten in this thread is the exact opposite of useless, and it's very insulting to say what you said. Do whatever you want, but the facts is that you sprite is malformed, out of balance, with awkward color selection, readability issues and a lack of any redeeming features, and if you don't like to hear that then you won't survive in a critique environment like this one. I've noticed that you don't take critique generally and it's just a matter of time until people just stop giving it to you. You'll be the only one reading your threads eventually, and I don't know if this suits you fine, but it's certainly not the way pixelation is supposed to work.

Start taking critique, reevaluate what it is you're doing here, or just take your art elsewhere for asspats and useless comments. Never disrespect people's kindness and eagerness to take time out of their day to help you again, or things will get ugly.

Offline sharprm

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Re: Chibi Fighter

Reply #11 on: October 15, 2007, 05:10:32 am
 A big problem is the right arm looks like it is coming out of the head. The left arm looks more reasonable. You should make the arms the same height by lowering his right arm. Or if you want the
'strong mad' look (from homestar runner) then make the left arm up a bit.

You should draw his left eye in.

Move his left foot to the right a bit.

Make his gloves have a different color to his clothes.

His body is strange, two squares seem weird. What kind of clothes is he wearing?
Modern artists are told that they must create something totally original-or risk being called "derivative".They've been indoctrinated with the concept that bad=good.The effect is always the same: Meaningless primitivism
http://www.artrenewal.org/articles/Philosophy/phi

Offline Andy Tran

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Re: Chibi Fighter

Reply #12 on: October 15, 2007, 05:50:14 am
Aite, thanks.

Offline Jad

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Re: Chibi Fighter

Reply #13 on: October 15, 2007, 06:39:32 pm
Yo, thought I should drop by to pour salt in your wounds. Just kidding :>

I wouldn't agree to AdamAtomic's tone, even though I know where the frankness comes from, I think using words like 'Bad' and 'Ugly' can discourage some people too much, and since I want to see the potential of EVERYONE realized, I don't want you to go to another forum where you get ass-patted but never release your potential. So there.

Now, here's the deal:



Let's say I posted this. What do I get from the users of Pixelation? I get, for example:

"Eyes are at a weird angle"

"He has no backhead"

"Hair looks like a bunch of sausages"

"Not visually appealing at all, go over it before you add color"

"neck is awkwardly placed"

"the space between the mouth and nose is too big, it looks stupid and completely unrealistic"

Oh my, they're not liking it! Dangit! So what do I do?

Add color and say "The style of the eyes were what I wanted to go with from the start, the mouth and nose doesn't have to be realistically placed, they're not supposed to be that way, they're more like manga-style, watch some anime, you'll see that all the time, they're not flaws, they're STYLE!"

Yeah, sure. Now people will surely be shutting up. I mean, they just don't understand my style, right?

Sorry for the sarcastic tone, I am confident that you get what I mean. Because, of course they won't shut up.

What they saw wasn't 'things that contrasted to their extremely narrow view of ART that sadly didn't include MY style', they saw 'things that looked funny to them.'

And if I ask myself with this picture, what did I want to achieve? To be frank, I just wanted to draw some western-copy-shonen-manga style face. So yeah, a lot of the critique is valid. Even though they distort it, most japanese artists still try and follow conventions regarding facial anatomy, and, well, that looks the best IMO. So:

Don't polish the surface, polish the damn BASE.



Whoa! This is looking kind of shitty. Still, it's an improvement. And there are still stylistic choices there. The pencil-neck is, although still quite unnaturally thin, better placed. Mouth and nose have been moved to more realistic positions, but in no way are they 'slavingly following the rules of realistic anatomy'. Eyes have funky shape but are better aligned. He has a back-head. Sausage hair is retained because I think it has potential. (shoulders are looking extremely bad, though, and chin is pouting weirdly)

Like that. You CAN take critique, improve, and still have your style. Don't be afraid! :D

SO.

Since you have a problem taking critique to heart because people blatantly call your artwork 'ugly' (And don't worry, so do I, when that happens.), I'll go in depth.



Why do people call it unbalanced? Because it is. Check it out.

The sillhouette is unbalanced, and since he's supposed to be standing straight up, that's a problem. See the base of his legs? And then the top of his head? The line between them is leaning, and thus HE is as well. Just look at it for a while and think about it. I'm not going to rant about it. I'm showing you why people say it's unbalanced, that's all :3



His legs are pointing outwards unnaturally much. His torso seems to be turned against us, but his head is turned to his left. The legs are just boots with no joints. How does he move them? Also, they're different sizes for no apparent reason, their placement on the ground seem to be the same distance from the viewer. His arms are wonky as well, especially his left arm (our right), which goes behind his torso for some reason. I tried standing like that and it was really uncomfortable. He's a fighter, why would he stand in awkward uncomfortable positions? He should be in kick-ass-mode :O

His head is placed, frankly, way too low. It looks freaky. I'm not trying to be rude, because why would I want to make you angry or sad? :< And even better, it's easy to fix. Just move it up a bit. I mean, where there should be an ear, right now, there's a shoulder. If he's not a hunchback, you'd want his head to rest on the TOP of his torso, even if he has no neck.

And now just some examples on body composition which I hope will inspire you:



How I would've concieved it. Since he's standing straight in yours, he's doing the same in mine. I guess that's becuase he's a proud one, so I gave him a proud stance. It's like 'I'm not even gonna bother with keeping my guard up, not before you gome at me!' or something. He's a little buff, though.



I thought that burly maybe was the way you wanted to go. So I made this one. I hate it. I think you do too. Sorry :]



... But really, keeping a good stance is vital for a fighter. OH WHOOPS THIS STANCE KIND OF SUCKS (Mirre would hit me for this one :<) but hey, it looks cool and rowdy. Like 'Yeah, here's the guard, but I'm to busy bouncing around looking cool to actually care until you actually try and hit me rarararar'.

And so.

All of these at least have some joints, more emphasis on individual joints and that creepy anime-face. :] I hope you become a bit inspired.

Oh, and lastly, your color choices and polish are at a level way beyond your skills in composition. That's why no one mentions it, AND that's why you're recieving such harsh critique. If your lines were shit and your colour was eye-burning gradient crap, people wouldn't even have bothered commenting.

Now people see your potentilal and want to help wring it out! Please try! You're the only one who can do it! :D

plus, train with composition and anatomy. Not necessarily super-realistic anatomy (Helm says: Yes he should D:<) but rather trying to concieve a believable shape with your images. It'll be more fun that way.

That's all :O
« Last Edit: October 15, 2007, 06:44:44 pm by Jad »
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Offline Andy Tran

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Re: Chibi Fighter

Reply #14 on: October 16, 2007, 10:09:28 pm
Thanks man. I'm working on another chibi after using some of these ideas. At before, I thought of using this style of shading on his clothes and skin. Humans skins can be shiny too. I have shiny skin myself. Shading depends on the style whatsoever.
 

« Last Edit: October 16, 2007, 10:12:32 pm by Andy Tran »

Offline bengo

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Re: Chibi Fighter

Reply #15 on: October 17, 2007, 02:17:15 am
I'm not seeing any improvement and with all the help you're getting come on man, you're just telling me how human skin can be shiny due to sweat and very very close light sources(Think about it, he boxes, which means lights right above him along with him being very very sweaty).
« Last Edit: October 17, 2007, 02:23:47 am by bengoshia »

Offline Faktablad

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Re: Chibi Fighter

Reply #16 on: October 17, 2007, 02:38:54 am

Oh please.

Can you do me a favor and just TRY applying what Jad said?  Just TRY.  It may not be what you want to do, but who cares?  You can save it as another file.  After you've TRIED making it look better based on the very generous critique that Jad has SO kindly written for you, see if you like it.  Just step back and see if you think it's better or not.  Just give it a TRY, PLEASE.  What do you have to lose?

You very well may have a style that you like.  If so, can you deny that going outside of your style once in a while is a good exercise IN ITSELF, REGARDLESS of who the artist is?

Offline AdamAtomic

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Re: Chibi Fighter

Reply #17 on: October 17, 2007, 03:18:39 am
If it sounds like I'm being extra-harsh, it's because you seem to be pretty well set in your ways, and like most of your threads you will work on the polish level only, rather than having the guts to tackle the fundamental problems that are crippling your work.

Just saying.

But here, you want something more concrete?  How about a list.  This is a list of the things that are wrong with this piece regardless of the intended style:

  • He has no ears; his shoulders come out of his jaw.
  • He has no waist.
  • He has no knees.
  • He has no left (our right) eye.
  • If he has hands, I can't really see them.

These are not stylistic concerns.  These are "this work has severe problems on lots of levels" concerns.  Forget everything else anybody has typed out here so far, except Jad's phenomenal crit that you completely ignored.  Please put at least a minimal amount of effort into making this character look human if only to respect the effort Jad put in earlier.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2007, 03:22:55 am by AdamAtomic »

Offline Jad

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Re: Chibi Fighter

Reply #18 on: October 17, 2007, 04:42:06 pm
I really support Faktablad's suggestion of making an entirely new piece.

I wouldn't reccomend Street Fighter II's shading style, because it's basically pillow shading with detail. I think you could aim higher :O

But that's just an opinion. Of course.
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Offline Souly

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Re: Chibi Fighter

Reply #19 on: October 17, 2007, 06:08:06 pm
He looks like all his limb are fuzed to his body..
His legs are rediculously huge.

Seriously, take a look at Jad's edit.
And you'll see everything you're doing wrong...

Offline CrematedPumpkin

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Re: Chibi Fighter

Reply #20 on: October 17, 2007, 08:01:26 pm
Agree with Faktablad; Jad's critique is far too detailed and thought through for you to just dismiss it  :)
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Offline Jad

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Re: Chibi Fighter

Reply #21 on: October 17, 2007, 08:05:50 pm
Agree with Faktablad; Jad's critique is far too detailed and thought through for you to just dismiss it  :)

Actually, no; I was free to write the whole thing and he is free to take it to heart or completely disregard it all.

I don't want this to turn into 'FOLLOWING CRITIQUE IS OBLIGATORY'-thing because it isn't.

It does, though, defeat the purpose of hanging around on an art forum, but hey, that's not my concern.

So take it easy, guys, and please stop with the 'do as Jad says', come up with something for yourselves instead, if you feel like it, otherwise, let Andy do as he sees fit.
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Offline Scuba Steve

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Re: Chibi Fighter

Reply #22 on: October 19, 2007, 04:06:46 pm
Let's try this... If this is your style, hone it.  Show us a few pieces in this thread of this character in other poses.  Show him throwing a punch, Show him in mid jump, let us see some action with this character.  If you really want this to be your style for chibi, show us what how you can express other variations of the character.  How I feel about it isn't crucial... but if you have trouble conveying actions and emotions with your character, then you may have to retool your style as you have shown here.
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