AuthorTopic: I have a dire problem  (Read 10371 times)

Offline ptoing

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Re: I have a dire problem

Reply #10 on: September 26, 2007, 04:48:16 pm
Helm is harsh because he cares!
There are no ugly colours, only ugly combinations of colours.

Offline Jad

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Re: I have a dire problem

Reply #11 on: September 26, 2007, 04:51:32 pm
If he's the type that easily gets discouraged, he'll, against common sense, take any harsh words as a disapproval of his ability, and not an incentive to enhance it. And that's where sugar-coating helps.

Which is totally stupid!

Reaverboy, think about it, Helm's love is like a fist.

Seriously, don't read what isn't there. There is no 'you suck' and no 'you should quit', there is only 'this is flawed, this will improve it'

The only thing that he hasn't written, that still stands true, is obviously 'This is my opinion on the internet (which I, though, firmly believe in as the truth)'

And WHY THE HECK am I writing a post explaining what HELM just probably said?

Because I'm gonna edit this post later with some schweet EDITING and sugar-coated (although honest) words. <3

EDIT: aaaaaAAAND here it comes :D





The leftmost is me fiddling around with what might look good. Put shadow on it because it seemed like good practise for me (and it looks like shit, I should put up a 'help, I can't shade faces'-thread but whadeva)

The middle one is me explaining things that I think are flawed and that I'd change for great justice:

- First of all: Real heroes always have the twirly-bang-thing on their forehead. I'm not sure if you're a hero, so ehum.

- your eye placement was, as Helm put it, invented, mostly meaning that it would never appear like that, neither the shape, nor the angle, in real life.

So I shaded the side of the nose in a light blue to clarify where it is, and so I can explain one of the reasons as to why the eye couldn't be there if this picture takes the realistic approach (which it obviously already have, what with a realistically thick neck, realistically rendered nose and so on). The red dot! It marks the point where the edge of the eye you made collides with the side of the nose. No real human has their eyes so close to their noses. So the blue line is where I'd suggest you put the eye. It's smaller, but it works better on this face (I believe).

Other stuff:

- chin should point forwards-er. (GRAMARR)

- part of the face where the lips are pout forwards in a curious way. Anime disease? O:

- ear should be lower down, kinda. Top should be at the same horizontal level as the eyebrows-ish, bottom should be at the nose. Ish.

- on the left-most picture, I've made a huge eyeball explaining what kind of shape the eye would have at that angle. Hope it helps.

So yeah, sugar-coated words:

You should study the fundamentals, and so should EACH of us, always, (I should :( A lot more.) but that doesn't mean that what you have is utter crap. Because it isn't and that's why I'm here to boost your self-confidence D:<

For example, though the transition between head and neck in the neck part of the neck (ARGH, back of the neck dangit) is a bit harsh, the placement of the neck, although a bit wonky, shows a great deal of understanding as to where the neck is placed on a real human. Too much anime is sure to make one believe that the neck is some kind of stick that one places heads upon, but your mind is safely undistorted - Great!

The nose is also totally good. It just works. That's how I feel about it. Realistic and fine :]

Goddamnit, you've come to a great start. I'll hit you if you sit and sulk about Helm giving critique on a critique forum >:( When you're not even bad. When you've actually got it together.

Know, about helm, that the few occasions of him showing love openly that we have recorded always have included one or more of the following:

- goats

- sven

- harsh critique.

If you see one of these subjects in one of his posts, you will know that he has shown true love. Do not misinterpret it.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2007, 05:58:29 pm by Jad »
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Offline Helm

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Re: I have a dire problem

Reply #12 on: September 26, 2007, 06:19:49 pm
Quote
If he's the type that easily gets discouraged, he'll, against common sense, take any harsh words as a disapproval of his ability, and not an incentive to enhance it. And that's where sugar-coating helps.

If someone feels like giving up because they got critique, they should (for a time). They should give up until the disappointment goes away (if it does) and the ambition and desire to create and become better overcomes bad self-esteem. I am never discouraging. I have never told anyone ever 'give up'. I put words down on what's wrong, and the artist has the benefit of being able to return to this thread today, tomorrow or 3 years from now when he's ready to read what I said. Reaver's problem is that he's winging the fundamentals. He did not construct this face according to a theoretical model, he just put down symbols as the felt in his gut he should, and this leads to bad self-training, bad habits that will be very difficult to overcome.

Start on the fundamentals.

Unlearn bad anime habits.

Push yourself to finish your art.

It's good that you've found out the pathology of working from professional reference artwork, just stop doing it now. Forget the safety of doing it like others do without knowing why, and learn why so you're safe in your own choices.


This is my critique, this I believe will be what you need to do to see longterm good benefit. I could, and I have in the past on numerous occasions edited art for both fundamental changes and nitpicks, and I could do that for your wip if you want, and it might help you improve this particular piece, but the words I'm saying here will help you improve yourself as an artist on the whole. You'll learn to help yourself, so to speak.

I don't critique like this in real-life siuations where if someone gets offended by what you say they just shut down and don't listen to you and everything goes to waste. This is text on the internet, people can return to it when they're ready.

Your post Jad was full of great critique, by the way. Great going. I hope Reaver looks at what you've done with the edits and reads the text and experiments, tries different things until he finds a process that will create something he can be proud of.

Offline Jad

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Re: I have a dire problem

Reply #13 on: September 26, 2007, 07:18:48 pm
Quote
If he's the type that easily gets discouraged, he'll, against common sense, take any harsh words as a disapproval of his ability, and not an incentive to enhance it. And that's where sugar-coating helps.

If someone feels like giving up because they got critique, they should (for a time). They should give up until the disappointment goes away (if it does) and the ambition and desire to create and become better overcomes bad self-esteem. I am never discouraging. I have never told anyone ever 'give up'. I put words down on what's wrong, and the artist has the benefit of being able to return to this thread today, tomorrow or 3 years from now when he's ready to read what I said.

Yup :] I have never disapproved of your way of giving critique. That you're around is one of the gratest benefits of this forum. (though it did kind of take me like half a year to finally understand that where others use the straight-to-the-point style of speech to boast their own ego and bully others around, you actually simply are just that, straight to the point. Wow.)

The reason as to why I say that sugar-coating helps is that I just love hearing praise :D Which is why I give praise.

So there are both those who give praise and those who get straight to the critique on this forum, and that's why it will always go around. :]

This is a meaningless point. But anyways.

Here's hoping that I'll see something nice from mr.Reaver soon :3~
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Offline Helm

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Re: I have a dire problem

Reply #14 on: September 26, 2007, 07:21:42 pm
The only ego boost I get out of this forum is the one involved with people telling me that I've been a positive influence in their artistic endeavours.

Quote
Here's hoping that I'll see something nice from mr.Reaver soon :3~

Indeed. We are waiting, sir.

Offline Luminous_Reaver

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Re: I have a dire problem

Reply #15 on: September 26, 2007, 08:22:28 pm
Too many posts, and good points, I'm going to go cut myself and quit art forever.



Actually I'm going to try and apply what I'm learning. I didn't have much time to do much besides some revising to the original.

I'm going to go hide while you tear this up.  :-X

Offline Jad

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Re: I have a dire problem

Reply #16 on: September 26, 2007, 08:50:50 pm
Too many posts, and good points, I'm going to go cut myself and quit art forever.


Actually I'm going to try and apply what I'm learning. I didn't have much time to do much besides some revising to the original.

I'm going to go hide while you tear this up.  :-X

Stop being afraid of us dammit! D: I keep getting pictures of us coming for you with a big delicious cake and you hiding in a closet. Stop being so damn nervous <3 (though I know the feeling)

Here, taste the delicious cake of critique D:<

- Neckline looks better in every single way now! Great job!

eyebrow->nose->mouth-line is also looking pretty slick, I like it a lot!

Eye still borders on being a bit close to the nose, just retract it by like two pixels and you'll be fine. Or rather, I'd say, save your darling and then KILL IT :D, save it so you have this version, and then just fuck around with the eye play around with the rendering of the eye any way you feel like. Try every possible placement, also the ones that look bad. Just to get a feel for it. Also check out some references. Like just google johnny depp or something and check how his eyes are placed. Or anyone. Yourself. Do it! Do it! :D :D *ENTHUSIASM EXPLOSION*

What I'm trying to say is that I still think the eye is 1: kind of invented or just placed in a bad way 2: weird when you look at it together with the eyebrow.

Eyebrow is looking a bit bushy, and extends longer backwards than what is normal. That might just be how you look, though.

Ear placement is better now, hooray!

mouth is looking a bit wonky, on our right side it's pointing down a bit too much. Upper lip looks weird also, try to not draw how you believe an upper lip looks like, but try to actually check out how it DOES look like. A mirror is fine in this case :]

Hey, I really teared it up, didn't I? :] Anyway, keep going, I'm totally liking it.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2007, 08:56:09 pm by Jad »
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Offline Helm

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Re: I have a dire problem

Reply #17 on: September 26, 2007, 09:20:10 pm
That's much better, Reaper. Here's an edit to show that eye need work from reference (eyes are complicated, not at all how you'd think they are), also you're probably cutting the top of the head off too short (work in a bigger canvas) and various other edits. However from a point and onwards I might be hurting likeness, for which you should probably post a photo in the same angle.

Offline Luminous_Reaver

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Re: I have a dire problem

Reply #18 on: September 26, 2007, 10:48:51 pm


 :huh: I think I addressed the major problems
My posture looks terrible, but I like it. (Unless it looks really bad, I don't know)
Also, I started to draw a shirt, because looking at it naked was kind of weird.

I guess right now my biggest priority is finding a camera so you guys can help with likeness.
And cleaning my lines.

Offline Stefano

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Re: I have a dire problem

Reply #19 on: September 27, 2007, 12:14:38 am
It looks much better now, Luminous. I mean MUCH better.
Please post a photo so we (and by "we" I mean Helm and his butt kicking edits :P ) can help you further with the likeness issue.

Well done.