AuthorTopic: Official OT-Creativity Thread 2  (Read 818578 times)

Offline Faceless

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Re: Official OT-Creativity Thread 2

Reply #380 on: March 25, 2008, 10:28:51 am
What he's saying is that if you learnt the lesson properly the problem would not bleed into your sketches, and not that you should treat these sketches as studies.

Offline ndchristie

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Re: Official OT-Creativity Thread 2

Reply #381 on: March 25, 2008, 12:24:24 pm
unnecessary post.  details relevant to other's posts preserved in their quotes.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2008, 02:10:51 am by ndchristie »
A mistake is a mistake.
The same mistake twice is a bad habit.
The same mistake three or more times is a motif.

Offline Helm

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Re: Official OT-Creativity Thread 2

Reply #382 on: March 25, 2008, 02:04:59 pm
Quote
That's debatable on a pedagogical level because we haven't demonstrated that studies and sketches use the same knowledge or even have the same processes.  I've already said they don't - what similarities these have to real artwork or anything derived from observation is purely habitual and neither intended nor unintended.

I'm alright with you doing whatever you want, I just want to help. So if you'll allow me a final word on the matter it is this: you like to talk about this much more than you probably should. Regardless of whether you'd take my advice or not, you shouldn't feel compelled to create rationalizations to preset to us about it. Internalise that whole process, it is not useful to anyone else reading. Studies and sketches use the same knowledge and have the same processes because you are the same thing and whenever you draw you draw from the same impulses. What changes is the amount of backtracking and correction you're willing to put into a piece of art, and whereas you felt like doing it on this piece or not is irrelevant. I only wanted to let you know your impulsive way of drawing noses (and faces, to a degree) is still broken. You can do whatever you want with that crit and you don't have to rationalize why you made a mistake now.

Quote
but you're also missing an important point - it's not a problem that I've been experiencing in my real work.  if it shows up there, obviously I'll work to correct it.  And I won't take that work to the internet of all places (and almost never have), I'll take it to people that can see it and touch it.

Having posted exclusively on this forum a lot of art that I hold quite dear for comments and scrutiny, I resent the tone of that comment. This isn't the internet, this is Pixelation. It should not be lumped in with Deviantarts and the like. At least what I gather from your tone is that I should not give you any more critique about the things you post in this thread.

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If anyone were to demand that this be a place of critique only, I would not only be sad, but I would not put up my doodles, either.  Is that how it should be?

No this thread is 'post what you want'. Your attitude just tells other people if they should give you critique or not.

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In the end, as harsh as this may sound, it's impossible for me to consider this forum (or any internet forum, but particularly one centered on outdated digital techniques a place for "real art," and I haven't ever wanted it to be.

Take that flawed attitude back to uni where it'll be appreciated much more. Here is for people that want to learn and want to help others learn in a grassroots way, bad crits and all. It's not an ivory tower full of highly classically-trained people that are only apparently worthy of your 'real' artwork. I personally owe 70% of my artistic growth, though it might not be dazzling to you or anyone else, to this place and am offended by that comment. If nothing else here taught me to behave decently when I get critiqued, taught me to say 'thanks' even if I was aware of the error that got critiqued, taught me to respect the time other people put into helping me with my artwork. You're not there yet apparently, so go back to art school where you're paying for people to take your art seriously. Apparently good will on the internet is just cheap, you see it every day.

Quote
Am I being a jerk here?  Yes.  Am I being honest?  Completely.  What does that mean?  Hell if I know.

It means you should think more before you post.

Offline Atnas

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Re: Official OT-Creativity Thread 2

Reply #383 on: March 25, 2008, 07:38:30 pm
Quote from: Adarias
(this photo is actually taken at what I think is a higher angle)

Helm was refering i believe to my desire to show both nostrils, and the fact that the bridge appears collapsed with the nostril flaps heading straight back and down rather than forming a "horn" shape up into the sinus?

Ah. I suppose what I was actually seeing but didn't realize was the lack of shape to the nostrils. But it's very small so there's an excuse I suppose. That, however, leads to this...

Quote from: Atnas
there's always the 1 px photoshop brush.

Quote from: ndchristie
but this is a drawing?  I try to only use photoshop to clean up things like page edges, not correct mistakes.

I'm willing to use any tool at my disposal to make my art look better. Graphics software is the same to me as a pencil in that it too is a tool. It comes down to views on "art purity"? Usually I'll touch up my drawings on the PC after I scan them because I'll have made a mistake or I realize a flaw that I hadn't caught before. There's no harm in emulating an actual pencil with a tablet stylus towards the goal of self improvement if the audience is of an electronic nature.

I accept it's for entertainment but this matters just as much as a study in relation to your artistic progression. You may not care, but the people here seem to love to critique and therefore be prepared to have sketches performed during leisure held on the same level as those done for a client. From what I gather, all we care about is the advancement of your artistry, and I don't think anyone here wants rationalizations when none are needed.

In the end if this doesn't matter, then neither does you or I's life by the same reasoning because I feel one's art is a reflection of many aspects of one's own life, ranging from care to even obstinacy - which can be examined in art which one refuses to make beneficial changes to and instead rationalizes. Go figure that we try to make it matter, on paper and in our lives. It's what gives this stuff meaning.

Don't think I'm saying to make everything matter. If everything mattered then this meaningless argument would matter, which it doesn't because at the end of the day, "to each his own".  ;D

Note that by we I do not speak for anyone but myself and my observations on the nature of this place.

Offline ndchristie

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Re: Official OT-Creativity Thread 2

Reply #384 on: March 26, 2008, 02:00:50 am
unnecessary post.
Quote
art school [is a place] where you're paying for people to take your art seriously.

only relevant note for anyone considering formal education - art school, at least for an undergrad, isn't a place where you pay people to take your art seriously in the sense that implies, it's a place where they put you down and degrade you and confine your artistic expression to mundane tasks until you either get over yourself or (more unfortunate but hopefully less common) you learn not to care what people think because "they're all assholes anyway."  It's a rare teacher that even considers that he's being payed by the students or that feels any financial motivation with regards to giving students anything. "Respect" is not purchased nor is it often given (and never where it is not hard earned) - this is why hardly anybody is "taken seriously" as an artist until they're at least middle-aged.  The only respect given is in the sense that the faculty considers you capable as a student of withstanding punishment, and nobody has to pay money to receive that.



random pose from class.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2008, 02:56:18 am by ndchristie »
A mistake is a mistake.
The same mistake twice is a bad habit.
The same mistake three or more times is a motif.

Offline Helm

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Re: Official OT-Creativity Thread 2

Reply #385 on: March 26, 2008, 01:58:36 pm
Yeah from what I said to you, that is the one point you felt compelled to let standing after messing around with your posts. Anyway, I won't nag you about this anymore. My only comment for your study is that you should post such things uncropped.

Offline ndchristie

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Re: Official OT-Creativity Thread 2

Reply #386 on: March 26, 2008, 04:17:24 pm
Yeah from what I said to you, that is the one point you felt compelled to let standing after messing around with your posts. Anyway, I won't nag you about this anymore. My only comment for your study is that you should post such things uncropped.

Yes - it was the only point not made entirely out of self-concern - i wouldn't want the many young artists in this community who are considering their future to see an incomplete picture of the institution, nor would I want all traditionally educated artists condemned for a single freshman.

A mistake is a mistake.
The same mistake twice is a bad habit.
The same mistake three or more times is a motif.

Offline Froli

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Re: Official OT-Creativity Thread 2

Reply #387 on: March 26, 2008, 05:09:17 pm
Man, I wish i got your drawing skills and this one caught my eye. It really looks good except for the face and I tried remaking Atnas shrunken head edit.



Is this okay enough to make her girlish?  the jaw has problems? is the neck angled okay?

Anyway, I feel you really got a bit pissed with helm's critic but heck... with your current level, the push that helm advice to you is really good, even if it's a message across the globe. Probably in a short time you will be joining the god level tier :lol:... For me, I always see the old timers here as my teachers and I really believe they are helping me attain the skills that I needed. That is, to get at least above mediocre level  ;D


EDIT! I THOUGHT IT'S A FEMALE CHARACTER!  :'( I should read the posts carefully. At least he can pass now as a young man/ boy.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2008, 06:23:17 pm by Froli »

Offline AdamAtomic

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Re: Official OT-Creativity Thread 2

Reply #388 on: March 28, 2008, 03:11:23 am
Flash shmup I started got a nice feature on Indie Games Blog today!

Offline Ben2theEdge

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Re: Official OT-Creativity Thread 2

Reply #389 on: March 28, 2008, 01:24:24 pm
Adam, you win the internet.
Does this project use the famous perfect 16-color palette? It kinda looked like it.
Either way good job, I can't wait to see what else you add to it.
I mild from suffer dislexia.