AuthorTopic: Tangents ( The Critique Theory thread )  (Read 10451 times)

Offline Conzeit

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Re: Tangents ( The Critique Theory thread )

Reply #20 on: November 16, 2005, 08:45:34 am
4) RESPECT eachothers crits. there is nothing stupid in a crit if the person gave their time in it. let the artist decide what to pay attention to....

...6) im probably a reason for this one... if you have a problem with a specific response by a person, try not to respond in that thread but rather take it up through PM, OT thread, or in worst case scenario a new thread like this. dont want more threads like splatpix's to get out of hand again.

oh man, thank you Flaber and Blink I really really didnt expect that...those two replies actually moved me :')
Blink I usually feel alone when doing this  nobody had ever actually thanked me for this, your reply is just as resfreshing for me as this topic is to you, thanks for that.

but flaber...god thanks for being so mature, it was completly reasonable that yo uwere still sore from the other topic, thanks for seeing my point and helping me give a result to this, and I agree with the rules I quoted...you were a scapegoat =(, I'm so sorry.....I just really really thought this was worth saying, I should've said I was sorry, instead of just saying "I dont blame it on you" thank you again =).

I would comment on your proposition...but that'd take time, I should've been bed ages ago :p...I think I better go bed now

god, I'm such a pathetic timid grumpy little man XD

Blink...oh...the CA.org link? heh, glad it was useful, maybe it should go in the tuts & links thread, huh?
« Last Edit: November 16, 2005, 08:50:42 am by Camus »

Offline Akira

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Re: Tangents ( The Critique Theory thread )

Reply #21 on: November 16, 2005, 10:52:56 am
Surely there are some artists who could benefit from a certain type of crit?
Why not have the type of crit given suit the artist posting?
I mean now I won't give Camus nitpicks anymore :D, but there are some people out there who could benefit. And its not always flawed technique that causes flaws in a piece, sometimes its just a mistake thats missed until after the image is saved.
I agree with camus that crits should help an artist rather than a piece but then again there are some crits that might only apply to a certain image (stray pixels etc.)

I have a strange feeling of deja vu :-\
thanks Dogmeat!

Offline Helm

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Re: Tangents ( The Critique Theory thread )

Reply #22 on: November 16, 2005, 05:28:21 pm
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why are you mentioning Pixel gods all of a sudden?

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but only a few select people actually give useful crits, and it's usually the same...so I just figure I'd be better off hunting the people who crit well, then skip the intermediaries and asking them on a IM app.

Yeah.

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I was using that to exagerate the point of making crits that last more than one piece, that arent just....fix that corner there..you know?I think you understood what I said with an extra level of presumption, I dont think a critique should be about what Makes the artist draw something a specific way, more about the way the artist usually draws things, about the little bad habits that plague him, say...you'd rather critique "dont use robes to avoid anatomy " than " make her knees show under that robe", they might adress the same thing, but one is disposable while the other ir re-usable, with the last one the pic might look okay when fixed, but the artist might repeat the mistake, unlike with the former one.

If you've seen enough of an artist's work to call for a more general crit that would help him, go for it. I did that with madtoaster, where my general opinion remained 'finish stuff more' after seeing some a lot of his art. But that's just case-by-case, there's times when it's called for, and there's times when it's not. It has to do with the artist's willingness to move forward. I wouldn't go 'hey splat, draw a few realistic pieces for us to see if you can' in his thread normally, because for one, I don't believe splat ( for the longest time this is, nowdays it may have all changed ) actually listens to radical critique. madtoaster was all 'I see what you're saying about it being unfinished, and I'm trying to find ways to make it look more finished' and so that warranted the more encompassing suggestion to move towards more finished pieces. Of course, later on, he mentioned animation and how he needs to keep it simple etc etc etc whatever, each to his own. But I find it interesting that you come to splat's aid in his thread talking about rezpecting the style of an artist, and then talk about FIXING THE ARTIST without realising that the two can't go together. Because there's mistakes, in a style. There's stuff that's wrong and stays wrong and that's part of what makes a style. And here you are, saying that we should respect the artist's vision, but still dig deep at what hurts their art. The two can't go together. You're either willing to step off your high horse and forget about your 'style' and get get critted like mad and take whatever you can from it, or you're better off revelling in the asspats and minor crits about what a 'stylish' and 'accomplished' artist you are.


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I dont know what people in artschool do, but I honestly dont care, I dont think this is a similar system at all, so I dont see why that should matter.

Find out, and care. It's their paradigm that places like this should follow. Because they've been taught how to teach, and while we're teaching to be taught here, that's still half the same. There's ways and ways to go about critiquing, and there's a lot to learn there. Don't get dismissive and be all 'I don't care. I don't CARE about the jelly. Jelly? I don't care. Jelly? What IS jelly? I don't care. I don't care. Honestly, I don't care.' You should care.

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Now about pixelart just being pixels, I dont agree, becuse pixelart is art, so it's not just pixel techniques all we need to discuss, we also need to learn anatomy, perspective, character design, animation techniques, and many many more things that pixelart is also a part of, you cant just go and ignore all the complex aspects that come into a picture because it's made of pixels.

now, from the start of pixelation, there's been a lot of critique about anatomy, perspective etc. But these are all side by side with pixel art critique. If someone here suffers from much anatomical problems, this place will not fix them. Sitting down and reading Loomis or posting on a fine art board or whatever might. There's never been any misunderstanding about that. Whenever pixel people critique anatomy, it's sometimes one-eyed leading the blind. Most people here are self-taught in anatomy and it's a risk to pass along crits with that sort of knowledge. I am not self-taught, and I still hesitate to go overboard with anatomical etc crits because simply that's not what we specialize in here. Sure someone needs to learn anatomy, and when you see a good pixel piece with bad anatomy, you go "learn anatomy." and the other guy either finds ways to learn or doesn't. On the wayside. This was, is, and will remain a place to discuss pixel art foremost. That's why this place exists, and why it will not drown amongst thousands of generic-purpose CG art forums. If you like another more, sure, frequent it, but pixelation will not turn into a non-descript CG concept art forum. Pixels. AA. Dithering. Buffering. Palette work. small-scale animation. It's a lost art we're keeping alive here, as best we can.


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Are you seriously willing to relinquish your points though? because...I know you think mods as long as acting on rules shouldnt be questioned, and you seem to always push the same idea of that this is just for pixel techniques and no more...I'm not sure..please dont take it a bad way.

Take it up with pep if you think my point of view deviates from the original function of these boards. I'm talking as Helm here, not as a moderator. I don't have to talk as a moderator. I've been here for years, critiquing and getting critiqued and my opinion counts for what it counts without having to put on the moderator silly hat.

Offline Alex

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Re: Tangents ( The Critique Theory thread )

Reply #23 on: November 16, 2005, 06:28:16 pm
I know this might get me banned and all, but holy fuck camus...im sick of your lame ass bullshit. Do you really NEED to put yourself up at the podium on everyfucking point. Making long as posts left right and center just to make yourself look all badass etc. I'm sick of your elitist junk. I don't mind Helm making long posts and whatnot but he doesnt do it every fucking time, besides...hes a cool dude, and i can respect him. You on the other hand just come off as an Elitist asshole. Im sick of this. I'm leaving, I don't want much part of this pixelopolis place anymore anyways, its all retarded. With fucking elections and all that. I just think its all becoming far too lame. Its not like its going to matter if I leave because you all dont give a shit about me anyways...im tired of your BS and im now that ive said all this, i think i should be leaving. So basically, banning me doesnt matter much now. So in conclusion, I hate you Camus...always have, you are just too cool for me i guess.

peace out fools.
alexander

Offline pixelblink

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Re: Tangents ( The Critique Theory thread )

Reply #24 on: November 16, 2005, 06:45:43 pm
I know this might get me banned and all
Im sick of this. I'm leaving
kind of pointless to make note of being banned when you're leaving anyways don't you think?

Do you really NEED to put yourself up at the podium on everyfucking point. Making long as posts left right and center just to make yourself look all badass etc. I'm sick of your elitist junk. I don't mind Helm making long posts and whatnot but he doesnt do it every fucking time, besides...hes a cool dude, and i can respect him. You on the other hand just come off as an Elitist asshole
What's wrong with him having an opinion?

Im sick of this. I'm leaving, I don't want much part of this pixelopolis place anymore anyways, its all retarded. With fucking elections and all that. I just think its all becoming far too lame.
I really don't see the gripe about elections. As far as I'm concerned, they're just to get members more involved in the forums by having them a part of the process as to what goes on here. Some people care at least. The people that run and the people that vote have enough heart in this forum to care what kind of future it'll bring. Also, it's not as if they have any true power to raise your taxes, cancel welfare, or make the country a worse place than it already may be. This is all for fun. Once again, for FUN.

Its not like its going to matter if I leave because you all dont give a shit about me anyways...
Probably not if you're trying a "poor me" attitude. IMO, you be concentrating less on what you read into peoples posts and more on trying to understand WHERE THEY'RE COMING FROM. Have a little empathy, patience, and intelligence and you may be able to look past the negative stuff.

I'm Blink and this has been another edition of Pixel Panty News!
Good Night and God Speed

Offline Helm

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Re: Tangents ( The Critique Theory thread )

Reply #25 on: November 16, 2005, 07:03:26 pm
Alex that post was compeltely uncalled for and you should know better. Do take some needed time off of this place, as it's clear you're not ready to coexist in this environment. If I were you I'd apologize to Camus and to the collective userbase of the boards for such a wasteful and hateful post. If you wanted to leave, you could do it without the drama.

Offline Darion

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Re: Splatter Sleeves

Reply #26 on: November 16, 2005, 07:35:01 pm
gah...what the hell? Darion[/b], you didnt even understand what I said....either that or you're just deforming it for kicks and giggles, I never suggested a forum about asspats, that's the last thing I want, I do apreciate pixelation and C&C, I just dont think that's a reason for it to not change and improve, and think of a better way to C&C.

Just now I'm realizing, much of the problem with your crit, is hell....you just said "shrink head" like it was an order, if you had atleast explained what was wrong with the big head, like you did in this post I'm replying to, then that would've probably been ok.

and...why not Pegwo? I always call everyone I know by their oldest screen name, it says more about who they are, if you know people by 2 screen names you have a better impression of them, one just shows the current image they want to display.

Everything in that post wasn't directed to you. I'm referring to certain parts of Kazuya's also. I guess I should've stated that prior to posting, but it should be clear.

I understand exactly what you said. You said that the C&C method should be left behind? No one is perfect. Critique should not be left to just the anatomy and proportions; its getting away with other shit thats not pointed out. What happens if an abstract piece is presented? Nice job? Looks nice? That just shows the artist how talented he is. Not considering a critique about your style when you don't like it is fine, but when you have a fixed condition to ignore critiques toward style regardless, than you are just limiting yourself and keeping yourself from evolving. No style is 100% original, but changing time from time and considering what others think helps you hide your inspirations. If we got rid of this, it would be a fucking gallery, which sounds like what you want, really. Thats why I said that.

I said "I would make the head smaller"; I did not just simply say "shrink head". I would have shaped it that way. If the head needs to be shrunk, it is obviously too large. I understand if I said "the eyes should be green", but the head is obvious. It should not be that hard to figure out ... Stop trying to be a smart ass.

And about the name, whatever you say.



« Last Edit: November 16, 2005, 07:43:04 pm by Darion »
@darionmccoy

Offline Alex

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Re: Tangents ( The Critique Theory thread )

Reply #27 on: November 16, 2005, 08:21:00 pm
fine, sorry camus. i apologize for my "outburst" id rather not coexist with many of you right now anyways, you are generally pissing me off. whatever.i just had a terrible fucking morning and took it out on you people. i do know better, and im sorry.
alexander

Offline NyanNyanKoneko

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Re: Tangents ( The Critique Theory thread )

Reply #28 on: November 16, 2005, 08:58:37 pm
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you are just too cool for me i guess.

You think HE'S too cool for you!?

It's a little insulting to say that Canus is better than you and not mention me.

If anyone is elitist on this board, it's me, obviously.  At least I admit how awesome I am.  Camus is definately better at keeping it cool than you though.

EDIT
I hope you have a better morning tomarrow.   ;D
« Last Edit: November 16, 2005, 09:24:26 pm by NyanNyanKoneko »

Offline FaeryShivers

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Re: Tangents ( The Critique Theory thread )

Reply #29 on: November 16, 2005, 10:42:09 pm
[Helm]
-snip snip-

http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=459.0

that's the topic this topic came from. Some posts there need to be read for this to be understood, but I didn't move them here because they're half theory discussion, half relative critique. Only moved after splat said he doesn't want arguing in his thread and after.

[/Helm]


Some people just shouldnt C&C, and most of the time when you C&C you will not improve.





That is (thankfully) not your decision to make.

People post their art to here other peoples opinions on it. It is up to the topic starter
to decide what posts are useless to him or her not you. It would be dissapointing to me
and many others if people were afraid to post critiques. No one seems to be upset by
these "useless" critiques more than you and perhaps a select few who have not spoken up.
The majority seem to embrace others opinions regardless of their personal skill.