AuthorTopic: [WIP] Sarah Connor (Terminator 2)  (Read 2371 times)

Offline Gunpog!

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Re: [WIP] Sarah Connor (Terminator 2)

Reply #20 on: July 22, 2020, 05:58:57 pm
Hey nice piece. I've read nothing so forgive me if I'm being redundant but judging by the last version (which is good, again), I have the feeling that:
1-You're not making the most out of your own palette.
2-You could make some lines more appealing.
3-You could make some clusters more appealing, too.

I played with your pic just a little bit to strengthen my point and -hopefully- help you.

Just being playful, changing some clusters and curves to make them more appealing to me, fiddling just a little bit with your palette and adding some AA here and there. Nothing is a definite statement, just some food for thought!
 
So...
For point 1, you already have the colors that are needed to make things a little bit less rough (with AA) within your piece. Antialiasing is a delicate task because overdoing it is bad (and can be worse than not doing it at all). But you did some AA. So, why stop so early and end up with rough edges? Especially since your piece is an illustration, and more so, an illustration based on a photograph. If AA is not the right way to go here, I do not know when it is!

For point 2, some of your curves could respect the pixel art 1-2-3...3-2-1 rule a bit more. I mean it's okay to not respect it all the time (especially if you antialias it) but it's something you should keep in mind: a more encompassing gradating curve feels more appealing than a varying one (like what I did for her left shoulder).

For point 3, kinda same thing but even harder to explain. Really look at all cluster and judge it. Is it really the most appealing you can make? If not, try to change it a little bit. It's often about simplifying it, making it more round and soft or on the contrary, more pointy, depending on the context. The key here is to step back from actual anatomy and go into abstraction. Try to think in terms of pure "shapes" and the solution will often appear to you.

But clearly, seeing the awesome progress during the whole thread, you're totally on the right way to go!
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Offline fskn

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Re: [WIP] Sarah Connor (Terminator 2)

Reply #21 on: July 22, 2020, 07:01:26 pm
Just a super quick reply: At this point, I think I would look at more references, especially lighting references to try and get that right.
You may be able to find something in the movies, but in this day and age you can find some 3D references online, which would definitely be helpful, like this turnaround of a young Sarah Connor model someone did:
https://youtu.be/AbHG8XqMhq0

And this handy tool for a lighting reference:
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/6a0Par

I think one of these frames here would be a somewhat good match:

But you could play around with it a bit more.

EDIT: Oh, guess what. There's an app that's actually called "Handy Art Reference Tool"...
https://www.handyarttool.com
Maybe that could be... Y'know...
« Last Edit: July 23, 2020, 01:17:58 pm by fskn »

Offline SeDiceBisonte

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Re: [WIP] Sarah Connor (Terminator 2)

Reply #22 on: August 03, 2020, 10:53:18 am
There's been another big delay since I'm still busy with work (I also wanted to enter the last PixelJoint weekly challenge) but I have managed to work on this a fair bit too.

The ponytail is still just the result of me experimenting with different things and is very WIP.


I feel like I'm getting closer to a likeness now, but it still needs tweaking.

@fskn
Thanks for that. It was very helpful to be pulled back towards some good references. I'd very much come unstuck there and I think the lighting and the forms are much more sensible and accurate now. The blue side of the face is still too reminiscent of Aladdin Sane. I've added in an extra shade of pink to better blend that side, but I think yet another mid blue might be needed on the right hand side to get rid of the painted feel.

@Gunpog!
Thanks so much for the extremely helpful pixel technique advice, and sorry it's taken so long to reply! I've tried to neaten this up along the lines of your crit. I'd previously read Helm's pixel cluster thread but I'm very much someone who learns by doing and, while I think I'm a long way off making satisfying clusters, your comment about thinking in terms of pure shapes was especially useful.
I've also tried to neaten up the lines and add more AA (I agree that this style suits it and I'd been too conservative and inconsistent). I'm still shifting bits of the image around and redrawing them, so I may have broken other parts without noticing. I'm going to do a final pass over the whole thing once I think I've achieved a good enough likeness for my level of skill.

Offline fskn

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Re: [WIP] Sarah Connor (Terminator 2)

Reply #23 on: August 05, 2020, 08:30:57 pm
That is quite an improvement!

Offline SeDiceBisonte

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Re: [WIP] Sarah Connor (Terminator 2)

Reply #24 on: August 08, 2020, 04:37:39 pm
Edit:


I think these colours are better. Back down to twelve colours (a number I'd arbitrarily like to stick to) and it more closely resembles my original vision. I think the pink also pops more with the less saturated blues.

I've also done a bit more on the face. It's getting closer but the mouth is killing me! I'm also tempted to put the ponytail back. I want to learn and I don't want to run away from a challenge, but I've tried at least four different ways of shading it and I can't make it feel either like hair or part of the scene.


Original post:

Thanks!

Just a small update because I have a question (ponytail still just as it looks during further experimentation):


I've added in two new shades of blue to try to smooth out the face and eliminate the painted look. I instinctively feel like this isn't necessary, but no amount of shifting the existing colours around seems to give me the ability to smooth the image out in a way that feels natural. Is the image alright with thirteen colours and do they all seem justified?

The lighter of the two new blues is only subtly different to the shades on either side, but that side of the image is intended to be lower contrast than the pink/purple side.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2020, 04:15:43 pm by SeDiceBisonte »

Offline fskn

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Re: [WIP] Sarah Connor (Terminator 2)

Reply #25 on: August 11, 2020, 07:57:24 am
I gave it some time to see if someone with better expertise would show up to give their opinions, but I guess you're stuck with me! xD

So, about adding more colors... I think it's fine. If you stick to whichever small amount of colors you think is reasonable... I mean, ultimately it's your call, right? It does feel weird to me, though (and that's just my personal preference) when shading in a pixel art image is too smooth. So, IMHO, and to my eyes, your newer image looks better.

The mouth is hard, isn't it? It gave me a lot of trouble too. You might want to try to do straight copies your references to try and get a feel for how to represent it and her other features in this piece (though not necessarily in pixel art).
Her eyes look thinner to me, so for that, your older version, from these last two, is a bit more accurate.

As for the ponytail, if you decide to keep it in the front and over her shoulder, with your extra colors you could probably smooth it out like the strands in front of her face, even using some pink; I think it would catch some of that light.
Some people don't like "too much AA" in pixel art, but I mean, the colors are there, why not use them? Unless you set for yourself other restrictions, like only having a certain number of colors per "cell" (8x8/16x16 area)...

Offline SeDiceBisonte

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Re: [WIP] Sarah Connor (Terminator 2)

Reply #26 on: August 16, 2020, 04:35:05 pm
I definitely don't consider that a problem. Thanks for sticking with me!

Here's what I've got:


Aside from the ponytail, the changes are pretty subtle. I suspect I might be at the limit of my ability for the moment so, aside from a final pass to tidy it up and improve the ponytail, this is pretty close to being done.

I agree with you about shading in pixel art. I don't have to stick to twelve colours but thirteen seems like a weird number. Something in me just doesn't like it and, with the new blues, I think I've got all the shades I need.

Offline fskn

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Re: [WIP] Sarah Connor (Terminator 2)

Reply #27 on: August 18, 2020, 01:47:22 am
Some slight edits.




I began by softening ever so slightly the philtrum, and went the other way with the upper lip, trying to make it a bit sharper as it's what I gather from the references...
Then I tried to make her chin a little wider while making the side of her face a little less bumpy.

Then eeehh... I added a bit of highlight to the nose. Dunno if it's correct, but, y'know, felt like doing it. :P

The highlights on her ponytail looked too regular, so I made them... more irregular.

And lastly, I futzed with her hairline a little bit, bringing some hair over her temple.

Oh, and I removed one pixel from her left eye, because it looked like a stray.

There's something there that still feels masculine. I wonder if it's the nose to mouth lines.


EDIT; Maybe it's the chin..?



Gah, I don't know!
« Last Edit: August 18, 2020, 01:49:56 am by fskn »

Offline SeDiceBisonte

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Re: [WIP] Sarah Connor (Terminator 2)

Reply #28 on: August 25, 2020, 02:52:39 pm
Edit:


Here's a tidied up, finished version. Yeesh, this has taken a while. I know what I need to practice now, at least!


Original post:

I'm calling this "pre-finished" because I think this is where I'd leave it if I were just on my own (save for the final pass to check for jaggies, missing AA etc). That's not to say that I won't act on any further crits, but I'm looking to move on soon for the sake of my sanity!



Those were some really helpful crits (as always). I was convinced that making her cheeks blockier was the key to getting the likeness, but your softer version was much better.

I'm quite pleased with the mouth now. It doesn't look too bad if you rotate the image round so her features are level. I've clearly not nailed the resemblance but each individual feature looks a lot better to me, and I think it's at least a reasonable looking human face, even if it's not necessarily Linda Hamilton's.

I kept the lighting on the nose as it was, but your edit did make me realize I needed to make it a bit more bulbous at the end, and I've made the left side (our left) nostril more prominent too. I also tried to make the eyebrows less arched as well as a few other tweaks here and there.

Those hair tips were really good too. I left the hair off the temple because I couldn't get it to look right and, in the end, I found I was beginning to get a bit frustrated with it and that I was delaying making any progress with the rest of the face. It's definitely the sort of detail that I'll pay more attention to with my next project because I do think it makes that part of the image look better.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2020, 08:06:26 pm by SeDiceBisonte »