AuthorTopic: Poppin Mockup Continuation  (Read 31964 times)

Offline Jericho

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Poppin Mockup Continuation

on: August 10, 2007, 09:04:18 am
I found a folder full of old stuff awhile ago and started reworking a mockup i started like a year or more ago now.

I started with this



and edited it into this



----

After some suggestions from people on Pj I'm in the midst of redoing the tiles aswell as placement. I've also decided to get rid of the building as..I just don't like it haha.

As of right now this is what I have



Things that need to be finished:

Water
dock
stone
apples
monsters/enemies

I'd love any suggestions you have on the tiles I've made (current ones..dont bother with the old ones obviously rofl), as well as what type of monsters to put in or anything else you think should be added/removed etc.

----------------------------------

note: loosely based off of Minish Cap :). Keep that style in mind.
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Offline PypeBros

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #1 on: August 10, 2007, 09:41:13 am
very nice altogether, and your new doors are quite a success.
On your second picture, you might want to double-check the "vertical wall of dirt" and adjust the perspective.
(see the edit)


btw, i like how you get the minish-cap-style in your trees. If you could post a couple of comments on how you proceeded, i'd be highly interested since i'm not as successful as i'd like with my own attempt
« Last Edit: August 10, 2007, 09:55:53 am by PypeBros »

Offline Jericho

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #2 on: August 10, 2007, 10:16:00 am
I don't think I have any progress of the tree but i can make another with some steps to show you how i did it.

As for your edits..I'm not sure shifting the view like that would really work simply b/c of how the game is viewed.



Just a quick edit using your tile. Although I understand what you were going for, It just doesnt look quite right I think.

Oh and did you change anything on the water part there? haha i dont see anything different xD;
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Offline PypeBros

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #3 on: August 10, 2007, 10:23:18 am
doh. i thought it was a "right-wall" tile i was editting, rather than "left-wall" as on the mockup  ::)
they should be skewed the other way, of course. and the corner tile will probably require more attention (mine was a very Q&D edit  :D )

@ the water edit, i just skewed the ground lines a bit...

Offline Jericho

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #4 on: August 10, 2007, 10:24:32 am
OH hahahaha duh thats why :
1.it looked wrong xD
2.i didnt notice any changes

silly me
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Offline Alevice

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #5 on: August 11, 2007, 01:16:00 am
It looks way too much like LoZ: Minish Cap. I'm sorry I cannot be any more constructive, I mean, your skills are good and all, but your style seems almost like a xerox copy to me.

Offline Jericho

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #6 on: August 11, 2007, 02:50:00 am
It looks way too much like LoZ: Minish Cap. I'm sorry I cannot be any more constructive, I mean, your skills are good and all, but your style seems almost like a xerox copy to me.

1. Useless comment. If you have nothing better to say to me other than it's too close to what I was going for in the first place then wtf is the point of saying anything to me at all?
2. The image is -based- off Minish cap. The tiles are -similar- but in no way the same. The palettes are 100% mine and nothing was down right copied.

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Offline .TakaM

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #7 on: August 11, 2007, 10:42:14 am
This looks a lot like Minish Cap, you can't deny it.
just look at each of your tiles, the same style of rough grass patches, the same style path, same style trees, same style cliffs.. what was the point?

It looks a lot like the whole time you were making these graphics, you made the conscious effort to make things look just different enough from MC, regardless of what really would've been better to avoid potential comments pointing out the similarities.


You look to be quite talented, so I'd recommend starting from scratch, don't use another video game as a reference, inspiration is all good, but this is more like the minimal effort required to avoid a lawsuit.
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Offline Warwolt

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #8 on: August 11, 2007, 10:55:50 pm
Yo chill down bro,  hes just playing around with some stuff he found in his folder man  :mean:

Offline Faceless

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #9 on: August 11, 2007, 11:30:15 pm
She has completely remade what she found in her folder into a subtly different copy of TMC.
I'm not going to condemn her for doing that, but I will say I think the trees look terrible, and that in trying to differentiate from TMC's trees you've just made something that looks like a cheap (and ugly) copy. Personally, I think the tiles in this version were better than your current ones (especially the grass tiles), and that the only detractor is those trees.

Offline Helm

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #10 on: August 12, 2007, 12:59:39 am
This looks a lot like Minish Cap, you can't deny it.
just look at each of your tiles, the same style of rough grass patches, the same style path, same style trees, same style cliffs.. what was the point?

You mean the point of copycating someone else's artwork? Without telling people you're doing it, also? Is that what you mean? Because I agree it's pretty pointless and also misleads the userbase to not mention any reference one might be adhering too closely to. Don't you agree, Takam?

Quote
You look to be quite talented, so I'd recommend starting from scratch

If this sticks too closely to the MC art I will recommend the same and also I will ask you to not post art that is ripping something off ever on this board. Pending the actual screenshot comparison I will not make that call now. Investigating...

Offline Helm

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #11 on: August 12, 2007, 01:01:51 am



Nothing directly ripped, nothing edited, you're just too close for comfort. Why didn't you want to mention you're using MC as a base of inspiration to us?

Offline JWW

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #12 on: August 12, 2007, 01:31:25 am
Quote
note: loosely based off of Minish Cap . Keep that style in mind.
didn't she?

Offline Helm

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #13 on: August 12, 2007, 02:40:57 am
loosely?

Offline Ornust

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #14 on: August 12, 2007, 03:23:36 am
I had actually thought it was her sig below the wall of text, and ignored it. I think she should remove the line of Hyphens..  :crazy:
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Offline ndchristie

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #15 on: August 12, 2007, 03:42:25 am
Well i think the path has regressed a bit from the first version

The rocks have made noticible improvement


and yes; those trees are much too close (hadn't played the game so i didn't realise just how close it all was.)

As gras tiles though I see little similarity though.
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Offline Jericho

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #16 on: August 12, 2007, 08:07:41 am
Wow I so did not want this type of complete and utter shit to break out over me or something I did.

@.TakaM: What are you talking about? The tiles are only similar in the simplicity of the grass. The cliffs and road/dirt tiles are -completely- different.

@Faceless: Well thankyou for not 'condemning me' but telling me something i made is 'shit' and 'ugly'..well that's just fucking rude and again no help at all. If you really wanted to help you could have given me examples of how I could IMPROVE..not simply of how I did things wrong.

@Helm:

1.Totally not my fault in any way if people don't read the full post. The '-----'s were meant to separate the note from the rest of the post as I know that a lot of people dont bother to read descriptions. How would you suggest I make it more noticeable next time b/c doing SOMETHING LIKE THIS just to get people to read something is ridiculous.

2.How is it not based 'loosely'?
Lets list the similarities and the differences, okay?

Similar:
Trees
Simplicity of the grass tile

Different:
Palettes
Cliff tile
Dirt tile
Plants
Dirt beneath the plant

So the differences heavily outweigh any similarities. I agree that the trees are too similar and will work to improve that. However I do not agree with how this was all dealt with. I remember a time when I could post something and if members thought I could improve..they would actually help me. Not simply tell me I was bad. In fact it was you yourself that finally clued me in to how colour ramping works and I loved you for that. There are always going to be assholes in life but the Pixel community seems to have become a nice sink pit for them over the past 2 years or so.  (note that this is not in any way against you, but just the animosity and rude comments i see members make sometimes)

@Adarias: Thankyou. This is the kind of post that actually strives to help. Any suggestion as to what I can do to improve the path? I didnt want it to be too detailed in comparison to the grass. And yes I'm going to try reworking the trees again. This is still a wip afterall. Infact here is an update:

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Offline tocky

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #17 on: August 12, 2007, 08:41:19 am
I didn't say anything before, because I didn't have any useful criticisms, and I still don't - but why are we crucifying Jericho for doing something she set out to do in the first place?  She stated outright her stuff is styled after The Minish Cap, and it's good stuff. I don't get what the problem is.

Offline .TakaM

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #18 on: August 12, 2007, 11:39:29 am
For my first post in this topic, I spent a while contemplating whether or not I should post, and once I decided I should, it took some more time to decide how i should word it.

After your response, the truth is I don't care how I word this, so I'll get right into it.
An elitist attitude is going to do you no favours when defending copping a style, sure you can list piece to piece differences and reference a "past Pixelation" that was so tolerant they'd let it slide, after all, you placed each pixel yourself.
No, I don't care, I shouldn't have to care enough to read your response and think, "damn, maybe that Jericho is right"
I only have to care enough to let you know I think you're wasting your time, because the first thing I think when I see this, is that someone is doing the minimal effort required to avoid a cease and desist, like someone making a zelda clone, cashing in on a fanbase, and coming from me that should be worth something.
Again, I don't care enough to word this better, less harshly, or more relate-able. This feels like a lost cause, and perhaps that's something you should care about.


Now I know your response is going to go one of two ways, either another angry conceited response with plenty of emphasized words and sarcastic remarks, or just accept that I think this is a waste of time, and making a big deal out of people's honest feedback is an even bigger waste of time.
But my response is only going one way, and that's out of this topic.
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Offline Rydin

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #19 on: August 12, 2007, 12:16:02 pm
I think the path is far to square and angular...I mean, unless the guy who mows the lawn there is a geometry major.  I'd say some rounder corners and rougher edges on the path should do the trick.
The character...I'm guessing it's the character...melts into the surrounding background...it's got no contrast at all and fails to stand out.  I'm not exactly sure how you'd go about addressing that, but if it were my piece, I'd probably change to a more opposite color to green--like red or purple.  But if it's absolutely got to be blue, you might want to try some harsher/darker edges.
The thing the steps go into...it's much too...I don't know what it is :P...a log?  You might want to make it more readable :P.  If it is a log, I'd suggest throwing in a cut branch or two--always seems to the the trick.
The flower a square below the character: what's going on here? Zelda slicing or Harvest Moon watering?  Again, I'd suggest making it more readable.  And while on the flower/dirt squares, I personally don't think the little squiggles are adding much--if anything, maybe a Seuss-y thing, but other than that...bleh.
The trees look way too Zelda-esque, which sucks because they get the job done in this mock-up.  You should consider new trees to replace them...actually, the original trees you had were a perfect start!
And finally, what happened to the GUI? :P

Kind of a "fuck-my-opinions-on-morality" post, but hopefully it helps the art.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2007, 12:30:58 pm by Rydin »
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Offline Faceless

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #20 on: August 12, 2007, 01:56:14 pm
@Faceless: Well thankyou for not 'condemning me' but telling me something i made is 'shit' and 'ugly'..well that's just fucking rude and again no help at all. If you really wanted to help you could have given me examples of how I could IMPROVE..not simply of how I did things wrong.

I never said they looked 'shit' so don't go down that road. If you'd actually taken the time to read what I had said rather than see a choice word (ugly) and see red, you would have seen that I thought your first set of tiles were not only more original, but also better.

As for the tree, I'm sorry, but it is ugly. It looks like there is no base structure, and that you've just taken the MC tree and fattened it like a pancake.
Suggestions for improvement: try something original and think about the structure of the tree; especially the trunk/roots and how the leaves fit into that structure as a whole. I get that it is heavily stylised, but compared to the TMC one you lost a lot of depth in the roots, and lowered the leaves even closer to the ground to a point where it barely resembles a tree aside from in size.

Offline Helm

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #21 on: August 12, 2007, 03:40:36 pm
Quote
1.Totally not my fault in any way if people don't read the full post. The '-----'s were meant to separate the note from the rest of the post as I know that a lot of people dont bother to read descriptions. How would you suggest I make it more noticeable next time b/c doing SOMETHING LIKE THIS just to get people to read something is ridiculous.

My problem is not with the note not being noticable. It's with it being misleading.

Quote
2.How is it not based 'loosely'?
Lets list the similarities and the differences, okay?

Similar:
Trees

You can stop right there. It only takes a single element that is way too close. Why are the trees lifted? What are you learning by copying the MC trees? This reminds me of a recent article about how the Final Fantasy games have made a whole lot of young artists that want to be 'rpg character designers' when they grow up (you can see a lot of them in deviantart) whereas the article says - and I agree - that you should strive to be a good artist generally and then maybe go into the game art field if you so desire. By making a shortcut and lifting the zelda tree you're neglecting what you should be learning, you are picking (borrowed) style over substance. What you should be doing is looking at real trees (and after drawing them lots) trying to engage your own judgement in how you should go about stylising them. That's the learning process that will give you the experience you need to do stuff like the current mockup without any problem.

Quote
I agree that the trees are too similar and will work to improve that.

That's all I wanted.

Quote
However I do not agree with how this was all dealt with.

Me neither. Not mostly my own approach, I am unapologetic about how I deal with rips and near-rips. That that tree is in that nebulous area of 'rip in spirit, while not in action' is the reason you got the worst end of it verbally and not in terms of action (actual rippers are banned and forever forgotten asap). However I still feel compelled to apologize about the tone of my original message. If you're to keep something from all of this I wish it to be the learning fundamentally before stylizing thing. What I'm really not happy with is the TakaM reply, and you will understand why a bit later.. However there was ganging up, and there was something of an overreacted attack towards this practise of sticking too close to one's references which pushed the 'Helm destroys stealers' button way too hard. What we're going to do is this:

Everybody: There'll be no further internet drama about ripping. If people want to discuss with you the reasoning for and against keeping to close to a IP style by all means, make a thread in the general forum and I'll meet you there. In fact that's a conversation we should have had a long time ago. However there's much critique to be posted on the more original parts of Jericho's art and I'll get to that myself on a latter post. I hope the thread can be redirected towards this. If not it will be locked.

Jericho: If you pixel something this close to original IP you're setting yourself up to be hated. This isn't because pixelation is a place full of assholes. It's because we greatly frown upon ripping. You'll always be able to get constructive critique for your art here and I think it's super unfair to criticize the collective demeanour of the place and telling us we're  all assholes after posting near-rips. What did you expect people to do, be overjoyed that you're matching that Zelda style so close?

Takam: be patient for a while...
« Last Edit: August 12, 2007, 03:42:38 pm by Helm »

Offline Alevice

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #22 on: August 12, 2007, 05:10:04 pm
I wasn't implying anything was ripped, yet, I didn't read Jericho's note as well. I feel this MC drama is all my fault, and I'm sorry for that.I still think you should strive for your own identtity rather than replicating others'. This reminds me when I more or less managed to identify/replicate Akira Toriyama's style and used it for a project of mine. Every original character I drew was automatically associated with Dragon Ball Z, rather than something on my own. Afterwards I realized that my very own style and own understanding of structure would benefit much more my work, and make it identifiable as mine.

That said, the grass looks to be on the same level than dirt, rather than over it. I'd suggest a more irregular and more, erm, 'bush-y' division between dirt and grass. Just to be an hypocrite, look at how it was done in MC, where you can tell grass covers dirt.

Offline ndchristie

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #23 on: August 12, 2007, 08:37:17 pm


haven't gotten around to a lot fo the things i want to talk about yet, but a few things I did -

color, tint, and shade - in full color pictures, two color types are often not enough.  recesses without crests still look flat.

consistency - if you have blocky everything and then rough grass, the grass looks bad even if you do a good job with it.

edge - (haven't put this into practice much yet in the edit) - a hard line is the last thing you want, and a soft line isn't much better.  You need an active, interesting transition without making it seem like a division.

focus - if you use hard lines to separate interactive objects and then let others just blend in, the player will overlook them.  Similarly, I can put a nice fat plant in the grass tile and without an outline, the player thinks that they can just walk right over it.  Also, your guy is swinging a sword right?  Make it happy, glittery, flashy!  Make the character easy to see!

More later....particulary about the tree.....
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Offline Rodahue

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #24 on: August 13, 2007, 01:19:31 am
Getting in an argument over the internet about virtual trees is absurd. I've lost all respect for you and your work Helm

Offline Ryan Cordel

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #25 on: August 13, 2007, 01:38:15 am
This was an argument about ripping and the trees, which Jericho confessed she never ripped. The whole thing was about many parts being way too close for comfort, in style, possibly pallete, structure and look, to Minish Cap.

Offline Rodahue

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #26 on: August 13, 2007, 01:50:44 am
Regardless, Helm, Jericho, and TakaM all conducted themselves very poorly. At any time they could've taken Adarias's (I have no idea how to properly punctuate that.) approach and focused on the piece instead of continuing the discussion in such a hostile manner. But Helm's comments were particularly unnecessary in my opinion.

Offline Helm

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #27 on: August 13, 2007, 02:01:44 am
If you wish to discuss this, use the OT thread, make a general forum thread or send me a PM. I requested that there be no more sidetracking on this thread. You're trying to stir up internet drama for no reason. I do not delete the comments on this thread because I don't want to encourage the thought that I can't take criticism, but if there's any more posted in this thread there shall be strikes and lockings.

Offline ndchristie

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #28 on: August 13, 2007, 05:08:24 am
All of the criticisms of style and originality are perfectly valid criticisms relating directly to the artwork.  Why does http://pixeljoint.com/pixelart/8483.htm have 101 favorites?  Because despite the act that I never played the game, and that I made the grass before the game was made, and the grass tile's vague similarities are pure coincidence mixed with media saturation, it reminds people of Sword of Mana, a game that many people like.  One thing I have come to realize is that people see and think about things based on how they relate to other things, and if you have to go around defending yourself constantly about your originality or ethics or clarity, no matter how justified you are in your actions or defense, you're doing something that will cause your work and your reputation harm and to have that brought to your attention is important.

Nobody here is pretending to be an unbiased mathematical critiquing machine; if they were, we'd never elarn anytihng we couldn't figure out for ourselves with a nice textbook and an iced chai.  The lovely thing about message boards is that they are full of people, with all the beauty and foolishness that entails.

They have even more ground in the fact that the trees are well within crit territory anyhow in that, while they serve their purpose graphically and are well executed in terms of technique, the geometry is nothing like trees.  I find them to be very attractive, but if anyone is thinking that the trees are perfect purely because they think people were overzealous in their riphunting, well, they are discrediting valid points based on an empathetic sense of pride.  Pride is a trait which at times severely cripples my own ability to learn from critique, and I would hate to see the same be true of another without voicing some sort of sadness at that.
A mistake is a mistake.
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Offline Jericho

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #29 on: August 14, 2007, 03:19:19 am
-- commence ignoring of anything offtopic  :-\ --

I've been away from home for the past day or so, which means no significant updates yet but I'm working on it right now and shall post an update  soon :)

@Adarias: Are those red squiggles anything important? xD I can't figure if they were just random lines or if they mean something LOL. I definitely see what you mean about the flowers and other interactive objects. The stairs are actually meant to be going down into the earth rather than into an object of any kind. I wasnt finished enough of that part for it to look quite right haha xD. 'll show you wha i mean when i update next


EDIT://

- edited the plants with a darker outline in order to define them from the background
- added in the push rock
- edit sprite and sword swing to show movement/slashing
- redrew tree





The tree still looks kind of squat but I think it looks cute? I dunno haha. Any suggestions on hwo to make it better? I actually hate the roots  :(


Things I need to do:
- rework tiles
- fix stairs (they look flat)
- continue work on the sprite
« Last Edit: August 14, 2007, 06:13:41 am by Jericho »
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Offline Xion

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #30 on: August 14, 2007, 06:41:25 am
Bleuwassstaaahhh???
Erm, sorry.
What I meant was that new tree looks like a gathering of tumors or something. I mean...I mean...that doesn't even really look like a tree. I think you should just like, start from complete scratch...well, I mean, it looks like you already did, but I think more like some redesigns of the fundamental treeeness. I mean, you can still see aspects of the ol' tree that carried over (and not just the squatness, but the complete and utter flatness of the top, like someone ironed it down or something.) I think the trunk is...flecgh, as well. I think a squat treetrunk would be groovy.

Its not immediately apparent that the push rock was pushed. It still looks, to me, like the stairs go down into a building rather than the earth. Maybe some grass on the scrape-marks rather than that straight brown you have now...?

Anyway, yeah, lookin' cool. I 'specially like the wawa.
And I keep thinking the cliff is a fence for some reason.

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #31 on: August 14, 2007, 06:47:55 am
Bleuwassstaaahhh???
Erm, sorry.
What I meant was that new tree looks like a gathering of tumors or something. I mean...I mean...that doesn't even really look like a tree. I think you should just like, start from complete scratch...well, I mean, it looks like you already did, but I think more like some redesigns of the fundamental treeeness. I mean, you can still see aspects of the ol' tree that carried over (and not just the squatness, but the complete and utter flatness of the top, like someone ironed it down or something.) I think the trunk is...flecgh, as well. I think a squat treetrunk would be groovy.

Its not immediately apparent that the push rock was pushed. It still looks, to me, like the stairs go down into a building rather than the earth. Maybe some grass on the scrape-marks rather than that straight brown you have now...?

Anyway, yeah, lookin' cool. I 'specially like the wawa.
And I keep thinking the cliff is a fence for some reason.

haha how would you suggest i 'fix' these tumors? I mean trees are in no way uniformly round so I just tried giving it some character ^^;. I guess I didnt succeed? haha i dunno. As for  the flat top, would adding another colour to the palette help that maybe?

EDIT://

kinda like this? Still needs tweaking btu you get the idea lol

« Last Edit: August 14, 2007, 06:51:19 am by Jericho »
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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #32 on: August 14, 2007, 07:01:49 am
 :-\
Well, not really. I mean, the basic shape you have there doesn't resemble a tree. I mean, I know trees are "in no way [uniform]" but...Well, it looks like this is just a ball of lumpy clay that's been flattened, whereas treetops bear more resemblance to, I dunno, say...Treetops? (I'm terribly sorry, I can't think of a good example.) Like...layers. Yeah, that's it. Trees have different layers. like, layers to cast shadows on layers beneath and...umm...
I think this recent thread has a good example: http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=4727.0. I mean, the tree (in the aforementioned thread) has clumps, sure, but not lumps. Eurrrg, I'm being very unhelpful aren't I? >:(
Mmmmm...I think I'll let someone more able to articulate what they mean critique this.

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #33 on: August 14, 2007, 07:03:02 am


something like this for the stairs, perhaps?

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #34 on: August 14, 2007, 10:40:00 am
:-\
Well, not really. I mean, the basic shape you have there doesn't resemble a tree. I mean, I know trees are "in no way [uniform]" but...Well, it looks like this is just a ball of lumpy clay that's been flattened, whereas treetops bear more resemblance to, I dunno, say...Treetops? (I'm terribly sorry, I can't think of a good example.) Like...layers. Yeah, that's it. Trees have different layers. like, layers to cast shadows on layers beneath and...umm...
I think this recent thread has a good example: http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=4727.0. I mean, the tree (in the aforementioned thread) has clumps, sure, but not lumps. Eurrrg, I'm being very unhelpful aren't I? >:(
Mmmmm...I think I'll let someone more able to articulate what they mean critique this.

lmao, yeah i think im just getting confused XD hahaha. I understand..sort of..what you're getting at but do not know how to implement such a thing at this angle.



something like this for the stairs, perhaps?
deffinitely looks much better than mine. It almost looks like a big hole now though rather than stairs.
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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #35 on: August 14, 2007, 01:14:05 pm
(After she stating that it was inspired on LOZ, and truly, doing such a comparison so rudely stated deserves no applause. They're not rips, although they bear similarity. But please, the similarity--the grass--is almost a green square. I've sprited many green squares in my life, so witchhunt me, too.)

I, for one, like the trees. Although they look a bit too organic (which isn't really a bad thing at all!--But in this particular style, it should matter.), they could still pass off as cute trees if you lighten up the shades that define the square-shaped bushes. The problem with doing something that's not truly symmetric is that you'll have to do other trees with different "tumour" (bush) arrangements to grant its style verosimilitude. Other than that, the roots are the only thing that bothers me. Maybe, should you make the trunk-length bigger (and thus letting us see further trunk), it'll do it more justice. Otherwise, you could just as well remove half their presence and shade them with dark brown and we wouldn't notice them as much. If the latter appeals you, perhaps, too, add small roots coming out and in again from the ground, farther away from the tree.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2007, 01:27:09 pm by Alonso »

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #36 on: August 14, 2007, 01:53:28 pm
I don't think non-symetric trees would be a good idea in a game that uses alot of flipped tiles and has a simple look. I preferred the second type of tree but thought the trunk is really lacking detail. They look more like poles going up rather than roots extending from the trunk. I think if they were redone, that tree would look good.

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #37 on: August 14, 2007, 08:08:19 pm
New tree - good in principle, lacking in realization.  This style will benefit from making the shapes round and appealing, even though that isn't very treeish, because the tree already isn't very treeish and there's no need to weaken the thing by being neither this nor that.
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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #38 on: August 15, 2007, 04:02:26 am
Are you sure you really need 4x4 tile trees though? Have you considered making connectable tree mass you can shape by smaller tiles?

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #39 on: August 15, 2007, 07:39:40 pm
Helm has a very good point that warrants repeating. Zelda's trees are pretty and all, but Chaos Engine's trees look infinitely more tree-ish.
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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #40 on: August 15, 2007, 07:42:02 pm
Well, I think if it's a Zelda-clone kind of game, doing any other tree would kind of ruin it. I mean, it's good and all if you're going to try and make a different game, but if it's purposely going to be just like Zelda, maybe keeping the same tree, no matter the drawbacks, would be wise.

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #41 on: August 15, 2007, 08:37:14 pm
Dusty what you mean is correct, but why make a clone which contain certain "rules" when you can make something original and  better. maybe he can combine the old trees with the trees posted by Helm.

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #42 on: August 15, 2007, 10:26:18 pm
I, for one, like the trees. Although they look a bit too organic (which isn't really a bad thing at all!--But in this particular style, it should matter.), they could still pass off as cute trees if you lighten up the shades that define the square-shaped bushes. The problem with doing something that's not truly symmetric is that you'll have to do other trees with different "tumour" (bush) arrangements to grant its style verosimilitude. Other than that, the roots are the only thing that bothers me. Maybe, should you make the trunk-length bigger (and thus letting us see further trunk), it'll do it more justice. Otherwise, you could just as well remove half their presence and shade them with dark brown and we wouldn't notice them as much. If the latter appeals you, perhaps, too, add small roots coming out and in again from the ground, farther away from the tree.

If I were to make the trunk length longer it would unfortunately push the rest upwards..thus breaking out of the 64x64 area. The only other option would be to make the greenery shorter which would again run into the issue of a stumpy looking tree haha.

I've worked some more on the tree though which you can see below.

I don't think non-symetric trees would be a good idea in a game that uses alot of flipped tiles and has a simple look. I preferred the second type of tree but thought the trunk is really lacking detail. They look more like poles going up rather than roots extending from the trunk. I think if they were redone, that tree would look good.



Unfortunately that tree was too similar to what it was based off of. I don't like the look of symmetrical trees in most cases either. Either way though this is in no way meant for an actual game so individual tile count isnt something im too worried about.

New tree - good in principle, lacking in realization.  This style will benefit from making the shapes round and appealing, even though that isn't very treeish, because the tree already isn't very treeish and there's no need to weaken the thing by being neither this nor that.

I feel very stupid haha. What exactly are you saying? xD

Are you sure you really need 4x4 tile trees though? Have you considered making connectable tree mass you can shape by smaller tiles?

I had thought of that, but I dont think it would match what i'm going for. To me connected tree masses like that look like forest lines rather than individual trees.

Helm has a very good point that warrants repeating. Zelda's trees are pretty and all, but Chaos Engine's trees look infinitely more tree-ish.

I'm not specifically looking for something that looks realistic. Obviously I want it to actually look like a tree, but more cartoony.

Dusty what you mean is correct, but why make a clone which contain certain "rules" when you can make something original and  better. maybe he can combine the old trees with the trees posted by Helm.

I'm not trying to copy Zelda directly. Rather the game held elements in style that already reflected my own. Cutesy..simple..etc. Visit my Gallery and you'll see what I mean.

------------------

With all that aside, here is an update



- lightened the lines within the tree that defined its 'tumors'
- redid roots
- redid grass tiles
- worked more on stairs (still doesnt look right)

still need to:

- redo path
- finish stairs
- add in dock
- more enemies?
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Offline Feron

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #43 on: August 15, 2007, 11:58:39 pm
i think the path would benefit from rounded corners and maybe a bit more detail where the grass and dirt meet.

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #44 on: August 16, 2007, 01:20:20 am
Basically what I was saying was that the new tree is a much better idea (great in principle) but that the strange shape of the lumps was throwing it off (lacking in realization).  If you are not going for pure realism in favor of cartoony, there's no need to make it too strange and lumpy; you might as well keep the tumors nice and round.  Having a tree that was highly simplified (neither this) but not cute (nor that) would suck.

Update is a step in the right direction, I think it's about another two steps away though before it has all of it's charm back.
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Offline Xion

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #45 on: August 16, 2007, 03:42:39 am
You pretty much fixed what I was trying to say. Before the lumps looked like they were separate, and hardly a part of the same tree so much as a cluster of closely grown trees.
Man, why couldn't I have said that before?
No matter, it looks loads better now.
And to ditto Feron, a rounded path would be great.

Offline Mighty Pea

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #46 on: August 16, 2007, 12:25:11 pm
I'm really liking the trees now, they have a sense of motion about them that's very appealing. I'm not sure if you're already working on it, but i just thought i'd back the comments on the path being too straight. It just doesn't work with the organic style you've got going here. Also, the blue flowers your character is chopping up look a bit strange. Very sharp and noisy, in a way. I think a more abstract representation would do the trick here. Maybe it's because of all the internal lines. I realise you're using those to define the shapes, but it really seems like it doesn't leave quite enough space for the actual forms they're trying to describe.

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #47 on: August 16, 2007, 02:55:50 pm
sorta OT now but the red lines indicate the parts of the mockup I edited.
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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #48 on: August 16, 2007, 10:10:01 pm
sorta OT now but the red lines indicate the parts of the mockup I edited.

ohh okay haha xD; duh@me


---

Here's another update.



what i've done:

- edited the path
- added the dock
- added waterline pillars


what i need to do:

- rework interface


-------------------------------------

EDIT://



I'm going to redo the path again. I dont like it.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2007, 11:45:05 pm by Jericho »
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Offline Jace

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #49 on: August 17, 2007, 12:32:06 am
The only problem with the path is it is over textured compared to everything else. Keep the curve of the path, It adds to the fun feel of everything. As for where the grass meets the dirt, it currently looks like tire marks because of it's detail. Decrees the amount of overlapping grass.

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #50 on: August 17, 2007, 12:34:53 am
The only problem with the path is it is over textured compared to everything else. Keep the curve of the path, It adds to the fun feel of everything. As for where the grass meets the dirt, it currently looks like tire marks because of it's detail. Decrees the amount of overlapping grass.
not at all, i think she's practically nailed it...

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #51 on: August 17, 2007, 12:57:47 am
The only problem with the path is it is over textured compared to everything else. Keep the curve of the path, It adds to the fun feel of everything. As for where the grass meets the dirt, it currently looks like tire marks because of it's detail. Decrees the amount of overlapping grass.
not at all, i think she's practically nailed it...

Im happy with the texture of the path but -not- in contrast to the rest of the image :). It just doesnt go haha. Jace is right about the grass too. I'm working on both right now :D
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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #52 on: August 17, 2007, 03:46:49 pm
Perhaps have the edge of the path textured as is, but the middle smoother? For example, like the water. Just a suggestion, not sure how it would turn out.

Btw, i absolutely adore this, the new trees are really great. :)

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #53 on: August 17, 2007, 05:05:21 pm
it's not badly textured, rather it's over-textured (didn't see jace's post): you're using the mid-tone to smooth the dips and crests rather than using dips and crests to rough the mid-tone the way you have with everything else.

I assume once this path is figured you'll do something similar with the push rock?  it's still really in need of attention :D

As simple as it is, the dock and the fishing sign are some of the best things you've added thus far :P.
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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #54 on: August 17, 2007, 06:16:27 pm
I don't think the dirt tile looks too out of place.
Yes it is busier, but because of the low contrast in the tile, it doesn't stand out too much.
Edit the hidden passage a little bit to fit in with the dirt paths, and I think it will fit together with the rest of the tiles seamlessly.
I think the cuttable flower looks the most out of place; far too much outlining in comparison to the rest.
I really like your new trees.

The [Zz] box would look a lot nicer if you used the same outlining on it as you did on the [x2] box.
I think the motion blur on the sword looks a little weird. The arch isn't fluid enough.

Otherwise, really nice. :y:

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #55 on: August 17, 2007, 06:28:50 pm
One question about the sword slash, why blue and yellow?
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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #56 on: August 19, 2007, 08:29:39 am
here's another update



See anything else I should do to it? I might work some more on the path..i'm not sure. I think i'm finally happy with the edges of it now though.

what i've done:

- edited path
- cracks on pushrock
- finished stairs?
- edit outline to Zz box
- thickened outlines on some things
- redid sword swing
- removed some colours

One question about the sword slash, why blue and yellow?

in your example you used blue and yellow..and..well it looked right haha xD. I experimented with grey/white etc but it didnt look as pretty (lol that sounds funny) as the blue/yellow, so I just stuck with that. Should I change it?
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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #57 on: August 19, 2007, 11:32:39 am
the Health-life hearts look very blurry i'd lose some aa colors there.

the mud-grass transition looks great now, but im not feeling the random circle approach to the texture.

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #58 on: August 19, 2007, 01:56:49 pm
in your example you used blue and yellow..and..well it looked right haha xD. I experimented with grey/white etc but it didnt look as pretty (lol that sounds funny) as the blue/yellow, so I just stuck with that. Should I change it?

Nah, I was just wondering if there was an "artistic" reason because the only reason I chose blue and yellow was because it looked cool.  We seem on the same page :D
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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #59 on: August 19, 2007, 07:43:41 pm
the Health-life hearts look very blurry i'd lose some aa colors there.

the mud-grass transition looks great now, but im not feeling the random circle approach to the texture.

yeah the texture in the middle of the path was what i wasnt too sure about so I'll work some more on that. I'll fix up the hearts aswell
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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #60 on: August 20, 2007, 10:41:46 pm


okay heres another attempt >_< lol this is driving me nuts haha
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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #61 on: August 20, 2007, 10:53:09 pm
I dunno... I preferd the circle textured version.

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #62 on: August 20, 2007, 11:42:11 pm
I dunno... I preferd the circle textured version.

yeah there's just something not right about it though
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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #63 on: August 21, 2007, 01:40:49 am
Take the grass from this:
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b307/unknown__user/art/poppin2.png
The dirt from this (but remove the small darker specs):
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b307/unknown__user/other/fieldwip5.png
And everything else from the latest version.

Well, that's what I'd try anyway.

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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #64 on: August 22, 2007, 05:45:09 pm
Are you sure you really need 4x4 tile trees though? Have you considered making connectable tree mass you can shape by smaller tiles?



What game is that from? It has pretty graphics, but the trees look a little flat on top in comparison with the sprites IMO.

Nice stuff, Jericho. Much less like Minish Cap now. ;) I'm guilty of borrowing some techniques from it sometimes myself...
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Re: Poppin Mockup Continuation

Reply #65 on: August 22, 2007, 05:47:47 pm
The screens are from the Amiga version of the Chaos Engine.
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