AuthorTopic: [WIP] Portrait. I need help with the hair  (Read 763 times)

Offline Boraka

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[WIP] Portrait. I need help with the hair

on: June 13, 2020, 09:43:50 pm
Hello there!

I'm working on a new portrait, and I always have a hard time with rendering the hair.



It is supposed to be a side ponytail 80's style and bangs, but I don't think that the bangs are very readable.

Offline dpixel

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Re: [WIP] Portrait. I need help with the hair

Reply #1 on: June 14, 2020, 05:02:31 am
Looks like you're trying to render too much detail.  Do you have a reference?

Offline Boraka

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Re: [WIP] Portrait. I need help with the hair

Reply #2 on: June 14, 2020, 03:50:17 pm
Yes, I am working with a reference, the problem is that I don't specially like the hair in that particular picture, and I don't have a better one matching a similar light and pose  :( so I was freestyling a little bit that part.

Offline eishiya

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Re: [WIP] Portrait. I need help with the hair

Reply #3 on: June 14, 2020, 05:17:09 pm
At this resolution, you don't have room for individual hairs, or even the smaller locks. Focus on the big shapes, the big locks. Prioritize showing the form of the head more than the details of the hair.

Quick edit to give you an idea.

Note that I only edited the hair. You have similar problems with noise all over the image. Focus on the big shapes, try to avoid single-pixel details.

Offline hANshOTtH3RD

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Re: [WIP] Portrait. I need help with the hair

Reply #4 on: June 15, 2020, 06:00:22 am
I disagree; I think it matches the over all style better the way it is.

as for fixing it, here is my attempt(did this before I spotted the reference photo):


...also the arm seemed a bit flat to me, tried to improve it a little, although i think you might need 1 more shade of red.

...hope it helps! ...what's the tattoo by the way? a monkey inside Lincoln's hat?
« Last Edit: June 15, 2020, 06:28:11 am by hANshOTtH3RD »

Offline Boraka

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Re: [WIP] Portrait. I need help with the hair

Reply #5 on: June 15, 2020, 11:46:55 am
Thank you both for your feedback! You have give me a solid base to continue my work!

There's a lot to work on still, I 100% agree, I didn't get to clean anything up, and some parts are barely sketched yet, like the arm with the tatoos :D I was very ofuscated with the hair.

Now I have an idea on how I want to aproach it thanks to you!

I'll post an update when I have dignificant progress  ;D

Offline Boraka

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Re: [WIP] Portrait. I need help with the hair

Reply #6 on: June 15, 2020, 06:16:47 pm
Here I bring an update:



I'll continue working in this direction. Thanks again!

Offline dpixel

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Re: [WIP] Portrait. I need help with the hair

Reply #7 on: June 19, 2020, 05:54:24 am
My edit plays with the light a lot with the hair.  Notice the difference between the darkest and lightest color in the reference hair. 

Also, there's nothing wrong with using bigger patches (clusters) of solid color.  Try to limit the use of single pixels...it's good practice and helps to define volumes and shapes.

Offline Boraka

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Re: [WIP] Portrait. I need help with the hair

Reply #8 on: June 22, 2020, 06:02:56 pm
Thanks dpixel for your edit, it was a lot of inspiration.

I bring what I think would me my last update



I'm pretty happy overall with the result ;D Feel free to critize it tho, I would love to hear what would you change/improve

Offline SeDiceBisonte

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Re: [WIP] Portrait. I need help with the hair

Reply #9 on: June 22, 2020, 09:42:49 pm
I like the aesthetic you've got going there, although the background feels a bit separate from the figure because they only really share the green colour. I don't have time to do an edit at the moment since it's getting late here, but you could maybe use the pink from the wireframe landscape somewhere in the person to unify the whole piece more. Alternatively, you could find a way to get more shades of green into the lower part of the image, particularly the background.

There are still some individual pixels hanging around, often as part of broken lines (such as the jaw, the straps on the top, the shadow between the arm and the body), which I think you could safely fix. Some of the ones around the mouth area are aging the subject up a bit in my opinion. I think you could strip out some of the colours around the mouth too. There's quite a lot going on but it's low contrast (e.g. the short line underneath the mouth to our left that's a slightly darker shade) and I don't think it's doing enough work to warrant being there. You could punch the contrast up a bit in the shadowy areas and get more volume into them.

If that all sounds very critical after you've posted a final version then I do apologize! Overall, I like what you've got here. Sorry again about the lack of an edit. If I get a chance tomorrow then I'll try to rectify that.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2020, 09:47:43 pm by SeDiceBisonte »

Offline Boraka

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Re: [WIP] Portrait. I need help with the hair

Reply #10 on: June 23, 2020, 05:16:58 am
Hi SeDiceBisonte!

Thanks for your long response! I don't think you are being critical at all, don't worry, I posted it to get criticism and you are bringing up some fair points!

I did a couple of edits trying to incorporate some of your points:





I agree that the background might be a little bit disjointed, probably the fact that I didn't have any plans for it whatsoever is showing through  ;D I tried to incorporate a color from the main figure (in this case the tattoos) to the background instead of the other way around because the pink was kind of too cool tone to incorporate it to the figure, in my opinion, without having to change a lot the color palette. I also got rid of the white frame since I don't feel was doing a lot for the overall composition.

I also tryied to get rid of single pixels in lines that where supposed to be continued. I often tend to break the lines when I feel is getting kind of jagged, and I know that usually doesn't translate as I was intended, since is a criticism that I get a lot, so thanks for bringing it again one more time.

Regarding the lines around the mouth, I agree that are kind of aging the figure... but is supposed to be a self portrait, and I am afraid I am not longer 20, so I am ok with that  ;D Now, maybe I am misinterpreting the piece of advice here and I am missing an oportunity to get it better, please feel free to coment again.

As per your last point, I usually feel intimidated with high contrasting colors, so I can see how volumes are a little bit flat, but as you can see I didn't even had the courage to try to fix it in my edit!

Offline SeDiceBisonte

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Re: [WIP] Portrait. I need help with the hair

Reply #11 on: June 23, 2020, 08:15:54 am
I like those a lot more. Both feel more unified. I'm having a hard time deciding whether I prefer the red or the green wireframe.

With the lines around the mouth, I think they're not quite portraying the volume of your cheeks. That might be why I think they're aging you up a bit. I've done a small edit to try to show what I mean. I've replaced the line on our left around the mouth with the highlight on the front of your cheek that's in the reference photo, and I tried to give the line on the other side a bit more depth to show that it has volume rather than just being a line on your face. I also filled in the philtrum and chin a bit more.


I hope that helps  :)

Offline Boraka

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Re: [WIP] Portrait. I need help with the hair

Reply #12 on: June 24, 2020, 07:10:24 pm
Hi Again!

I know I said it was my final version like 2 versions ago, but I have been toying around trying to incorporate a little bit more all the awesome points that you, wonderful people, have done!



So what I attempted this time is:

- Flesh up a little bit the face and show up a little bit better the volumes
- Add a darker shade of skin to the body so it doesn't look as flat
- Cluster up pixels in the face and the hair to reduce noise
- Reduced color count, trying to reuse colors better all along the picture. For example removing all the grey that was used only in the glasses

I honestly think it looks better and more cohesive now, so I am, again, very grateful to all the people that took some time to comment, and add wonderful edits.

Of course, feel free to point out whatever thing you would improve  ;D

Offline SeDiceBisonte

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Re: [WIP] Portrait. I need help with the hair

Reply #13 on: June 24, 2020, 10:01:19 pm
Looking really good!

The new dark skin shade really makes it pop and I love how you've shaded the area between the mouth and the nose*, the far arm, and the hair. I also like the little touch of the distortion in the glasses. The whole image looks loads more cohesive.

I've just spotted four grey pixels on the left edge of the top that are lighter than anything around them, but that's only a small thing.

*My knowledge of anatomical terms is woeful but is that whole area called the upper lip or does that just refer to the literal top lip?

Offline dpixel

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Re: [WIP] Portrait. I need help with the hair

Reply #14 on: June 26, 2020, 01:27:49 am
Looking good!

Another idea...


Also, you have a lot of skin tones, actually a lot of colors in general (27).  Some of which you can hardly tell apart and don't add anything.  You could do 3 skin tones, 1 highlight color that can be used everywhere, and a couple darker shadow colors that could also be used everywhere for example.`Color control would help to unify the image and keep it less busy.

EDIT: I really like the way you did the reflections in her glasses.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2020, 01:30:10 am by dpixel »