AuthorTopic: Actual impact of Video Games  (Read 35511 times)

Offline huZba

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Re: Actual impact of Video Games

Reply #60 on: July 19, 2007, 02:45:57 pm
I reach for all kinds of hooks in different games. A lot of games i play for an enjoyable atmosphere alone, some for nerve twitching action or dead on precision that is required in sim-racing games. An enjoyable game can be beaten in an hour, like a lot of shmups, or it can be an 100hour RPG, if you like the gameplay. There are not many games i've spent a lot of time with though. FFX grew too tedious and i barely finished it... Then again i've played through FF7 4 times. It has good characters, tongue in cheek funnies and a well thought out yet simple battle system that can make you avoid any kind of grinding by a little bit of strategy in equipment/magic choices. I've no idea if i'd enjoy it today, so i'll just leave it as a good memory. Sometimes i enjoy a game for simple things, like the mediterranean beauty of Chrono Cross or it's battle system that keeps the player active rather than just smashing attack button.

As for linearity in games, sometimes certain constraints can make things more interesting and linearity achieves things that are hard to create with too much freedom given to the player. Often a good "non-linear" game is just well masqueraded linearity.

@Ptoing
Yesss, i remember reading an interview where the creators of ICO and Shadow of the colossus mentioned that they did write an extensive story for their games, but they only give away a fraction that gives you a nudge, from where on you make your own interpretations. Cant enjoy a mystery of a world if you know all about it  :lol:

Offline Helm

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Re: Actual impact of Video Games

Reply #61 on: July 19, 2007, 02:56:08 pm
I have extensive paper and pencil role playing experience, and my beef is with jrpgs, not rpgs in general.

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1 - Suikoden 2 - 27 hours by my memory card, story driven.  Gameplay is chief.

I have played the first one, and it was ass. Every genre cliche in there.

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2 - Myst - GOD knows how many hours, story present but not important.  I suppose it's mostly gameplay.

On the contrary, Myst is all atmosphere. Not story, not gameplay. You call a slideshow and pulling levers gameplay?

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3 - Sonic the Hedgehog 2 - Countless hours, still have never beaten it, essentially without story.  100% good gameplay.

This is a genuinely amazing game that I have finished countless times and never grow bored of, so I cannot disagree here. A marvel of gameplay, nice atmosphere, good graphics, no story. You might enjoy Shinobi 3 if you enjoy this. When you're trained enough in those sort of games (and have finished Sonic 2 easily) then you'll be good enough to be able to enjoy N. Right now you're not just good enough for it. N is really demanding. Try Nikujin if you want to pull off your face too.

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4 - Seiken Densetsu 3 - 19 hours according to the emulator, piss-poor story but great game nonetheless, 99% gameplay.

What gameplay? This game sucks. It has great graphics, but it sucks. I liked it when I was 12, I played it again recently and it sucks. No sacred cows anymore. Suck. Suck. Suck. Suck.

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5 - FFT - 38 hours by my memory card, story driven but with great gameplay.

Can't comment, played 5 battles in it. Boring for me. And I like tactical rpgs like Fire Emblem well enough.

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6 - Medieval: Total War (the original) - about 12 hours now total, does not have a story.  100% good gameplay.

Great game. We need more like it.

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7 - Conquest of the New World - countless hours, does not have a story.  100% good gameplay.

Don't remember this game well, I think I liked it.

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8 - Flashback, 10 hours sounds like a good guess, story present but not important.  99% gameplay.

60% pretty deep and involving gameplay (if you see me play and never get shot once on Hard you'll see how far Flashback can be pushed) 40% amazing atmosphere. The story isn't given to you very linearly or clearly, but there's enough to feel the atmosphere drive you.

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9 - FF7 - 34 hours by my memory card, story driven.  Only game here where gameplay steps aside frequently to storyline.

That anyone considers this a good game is a testament to two things: a) wide spanning taste between human beings on this earth and most importantly b) how our brain sugarcoats old nostalgic memories. FF7 has an 'engaging' story for people who have never kissed a girl. Once you have, once you no longer fit into the blatant stereotype of the 'male 13 year old gamer' demographic that the game is going for, it can only be 'enjoyed' ironically for how amazingly stupid and/or japanese it is. Final Fantasy 7 is the most overrated game ever. The characters are paper-thin, the story flat and long and idiotic and the gameplay system deep only if you're some sort of obsessive-compulsive person like I guess most japanese core market people are? Suck.

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10 - Megaman Legends - 21 hours by my memory card, story present but not important

Haven't played.

Offline ndchristie

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Re: Actual impact of Video Games

Reply #62 on: July 19, 2007, 04:46:35 pm
ah, atmosphere!  that's the word i was looking for!

suikoden 2 blows suikoden 1 out of the water.  still slightly juvenile, but a 100% better game

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This is a genuinely amazing game that I have finished countless times and never grow bored of, so I cannot disagree here. A marvel of gameplay, nice atmosphere, good graphics, no story. You might enjoy Shinobi 3 if you enjoy this. When you're trained enough in those sort of games (and have finished Sonic 2 easily) then you'll be good enough to be able to enjoy N. Right now you're not just good enough for it. N is really demanding. Try Nikujin if you want to pull off your face too.

yeah, sonic is still a hard game for me.  I've "beaten" the regular game, but never gotten into any bonus anything.

FF7 might be completely nostaliga, i did play it when i was 9.  I just replayed FFT though last year and it was still great imo; it's only chapter 1 (maybe 5% of the total game) that the main characters are all whining bitches.  I couldn't get into Fire Emblem because i thought the battle system was a little too simple, considering it was the only "game" part of the game.

The main reason i liked Conquest was that its battle system managed to be both simple and fun, if a little silly (a 3x4 grid where nobody can charge :P).  Also, it ran on DOS.
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Offline huZba

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Re: Actual impact of Video Games

Reply #63 on: July 19, 2007, 05:23:16 pm
I guess Helm wouldn't like Kingdom Hearts either, forgot to put it on my list of good games. Enjoying things silly and naive is fun. Things like Dragonball Z or school romance comedy anime. At times it's good to NOT take things too seriously. I think FF7 is rated just as high as it rightfully should be. Just shouldn't try and find something that isn't supposed to be there. Red trout fillets with parsley pesto is is nice, but FF7 is chocolate cake.  ::) and chocolate cake is awesome.

In Sonic games it's required to collect the chaos emeralds in order to reach the true final level, so you might want to try that out Adarias. Sonic 3 is great too, but i guess the levels aren't ase fluid as in sonic 2. Both still very entertaining. Finished them countless times. Still remember pretty much every single tile and detail of the levels in sonic 3

--EDIT--
this game is having quite an impact on me right now! Must have... already bought the G25 Racing wheel a year ago for this.
http://www.gran-turismo.com/jp/gt5p/screen/
« Last Edit: July 19, 2007, 06:20:41 pm by huZba »

Offline AdamAtomic

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Re: Actual impact of Video Games

Reply #64 on: July 19, 2007, 05:35:29 pm
i disagree about sonic 2, i think its a MUCH worse game than the original sonic.  more levels, which is cool, but the difficulty curve is seriously skewed.  The first time I'd picked up sonic 2 in nearly ten years I got all the way to the flying fortress stage without losing more than a life or two here or there, and then the fortress started handing my ass to me before ambushing me with like 2-4 bosses in a row all of which are insanely difficult compared to any previous boss battle.  Whereas in Sonic 1, you've got a much smoother difficulty curve, bigger levels, better music, a slightly less saturated color style, and a really wicked last zone (though the final boss was a little disappointing)...dunno, my heart will always belong to sonic 1 i guess :P  PLUS, no tails.  That's a big selling point for me!

Offline ptoing

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Re: Actual impact of Video Games

Reply #65 on: July 19, 2007, 08:09:41 pm
OMG Kingdom hearts. I actually finished that pile of shit. That game is sooooooooo stupid and not challenging at all and the last bosses are all jokes. All you need is heal and shield and just thrash the fuck out of them, no thinking needed at all. It's all brute force. All it has going for it imo is presentation, but then again all square games have good gfx and sound.
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Offline Turbo

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Re: Actual impact of Video Games

Reply #66 on: July 19, 2007, 08:57:25 pm
-games that i found myself thinking, while playing, "this deserves top 10 status"

Tie-Fighter (less appealing to be played from the Empire perspective than from the Rebel's, but gameplay is soo much better than X-Wing. Movie ambiance replicated very well, though using dated technology).
Half-Life 1 (great creating ambience)
Max Payne (i consider this a piece of art more than a game. So many things at the same time, done so well. Story plays a strong role)
XCom 2 (yes, the one that people dislike most. The ambience on this, graphics+music+story progression is just awesome, better than the first, and difficulty is nice, certainly too hard for newbies but good for those who apreciate the style).
Warcraft 2 (Red Alert was also great. I just happened to buy WC instead of RA at the time).
Metal Gear Solid (gameplay is just awesome. Story promotes the creation of great ambience, and inserts interesting twists, which further promote gameplay).
Mario N64 (large array of different actions keep this fresh through it's long length. No story as usual with mario. Still holds as good today as the day it was published).
...probably forgot some

Also, delicious stuff like Cannon Fodder, Lost Vikings, Lemmings, Settlers, Off-Road Racing, Raptor, Terminal Velocity, Pang, Puzzle Bobble :)
N is nice, but i've grown to hate it from sheer frustration at the motherfucking impossible levels. Needs balancing. Gimme Shinobi :)
Recently i've enjoyed immensely a Castlevania (Aria of Sorrow? Fucking dumb titles :P) for the Gameboy, the one with the effeminate albino hair-bang wearing dracula-lookalike, with the uber-masculine white cape/coat with fur around the neck. Awful character design and some bad graphics (what's with the fucking colored outlines? And the run cycle...), but very addictive gameplay and good graphics generally (only castlevania i've ever finished).

I excluded graphical adventures that, while being great experiences, feel a lot like trial and error, not really making the player think as much as they are expected to. Still, i love these games (Indy, DotT, Beneath a Steel Sky. Soon to play Dig, Monkey Islands, and the others).
I was addicted to Flashback when i first bought it, but after finishing it i could never replay it. I like my games to have replayability value, that's why i didn't add it. Same for Out of this world (and this one features too many arbitrary player killings that sends it from fun to hateful).

Haven't played many from Helm's list. Shinobi 3 is really good. The Rpg's from Adarias list, i've played all of them a bit i think, but never got much into them, they all tend to blend into each other much. Rpg's i remember liking were for the Genesis (the non-rpg console :)), Story of Thor and Soleil, those where quite inovative. I never got much into the Phantasy Stars for the Genesis for same reasons as other generic rpgs: generic rpgosis.

- games can deserve top10 status and become boring through repetition, but they better have a damn good compensation for that repetition (good gameplay mechanics, compelling story)
- usually, gameplay fuels playing; story may fuel gameplay, inducing new gameplay elements (new levels, abilities, etc.)
- i tend to go also for whole atmosphere, feeling, etc
- cliche'd stuff drives me away unless the gameplay is really inovative, interesting. (rpg = young warrior fighting to save world against arcane evil, character's personal values based on weird cultural rules, game mechanics equal previous games from 20 years ago, etc)

does anyone read this stuff? lol

Offline Helm

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Re: Actual impact of Video Games

Reply #67 on: July 19, 2007, 09:03:53 pm
I do.

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Max Payne (i consider this a piece of art more than a game. So many things at the same time, done so well. Story plays a strong role)

...what?! Story? What. It has bullet time. That's it.

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XCom 2 (yes, the one that people dislike most. The ambience on this, graphics+music+story progression is just awesome, better than the first, and difficulty is nice, certainly too hard for newbies but good for those who apreciate the style).

I'd like to say I'm hardcore and prefer the second x-com but it's a proven fact that it did not go through proper testing and is too hard, nobody at microprose finished the game before it shipped out. If it were balanced, I'd prefer Lovecraft monstars to Mars Attacks too.

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Metal Gear Solid (gameplay is just awesome. Story promotes the creation of great ambience, and inserts interesting twists, which further promote gameplay).

Not being able to look at where you shoot is good gameplay now. Constantly disrupting gameplay with 'cutscenes' is good now. The main character going '...huh?' and 'I repeat what you just said' like a total retard is good gameplay now.

Still, the metal gear games are innovative and important. Just not good games.

Offline ndchristie

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Re: Actual impact of Video Games

Reply #68 on: July 19, 2007, 09:33:44 pm
oh, i forgot the good shooters.  Rainbow 6 and Red Faction on hardest difficulty, among others.  No story and strange graphics, but when your mission is to sneek around shooting guys without ever being hit (ok, technically you were allowed one free hit if you were wearing the envirosuit, but you spend a lot of the game without that), it's pretty awesome anyway.



And descent deserves another honorable mention imo.
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Offline AdamAtomic

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Re: Actual impact of Video Games

Reply #69 on: July 19, 2007, 09:35:44 pm
i disagree completely - max payne and metal gear solid would be REALLY solid games even if they were released yesterday, in presentation, story, and gameplay.  I guess you might have missed this, but in MGS, you're not supposed to shoot people.  The only times when you actually need to are with the sniper rifle and missile launcher, which is presented from a first person perspective, and during specific action scenes when you don't have time to actually aim anyways so it doesn't matter.  Ever think that maybe, just maybe the game's designers actually thought about the most basic interactions a little bit before making arguably THE masterpiece game for the playstation era?  As far as the cutscenes go, MGS is one of the VERY few games do actually do them right.  Not even the other MGS games come even close.  During the first few hours of the game the cutscenes are provided in short, bite-size pieces that only fill in background story and atmosphere elements, and all are completely skippable.  At the time of its release the voice acting was some of the best in any game ever, and the writing (though a bit silly in parts now) was a huge departure from previous games' attempts at "story" or "intrigue".  As MGS features nearly constant action and extremely intense stealth at an almost non-stop pace for the full 20 or so hours of the game, the cutscenes also provide much-needed pacing and rhythm to the game, all the while immersing you more in the world of these strange mercenaries and bleeding-edge science.

"sacred cows" and rose-colored memories aren't helping anyone, for sure, but come on!  You're making mountains out of molehills here.  Even great games have flaws, even if the flaw is unsuccessfully communicating that you're not supposed to be shooting everyone...

as for max payne, bullet time is not "it" by any stretch of imagination.  Noir story and style (a rarity in games recently), solid 3rd person shooter gameplay even if you ignore bullet time, good atmosphere and environments, solid writing, and some early forays into semi-psychological elements (like having to actually trace threads of thought in order to recover your sanity  during weird dream sequences) all make it a stand-out title even years after its release, and few if any shooters have brought as much to the genre, and none with so much style or care.

Plus, bullet time! :-*  :o

Do you actually play any of these games before you form extremely strong, negative opinions about them?  Not flaming here, genuinely curious.  I have similar tendencies, I mean I DO hold it against a game if it doesn't really get my attention right away...but it seems like a lot of your judgments (and there are a lot of them) are rushed and underinformed?